Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-21 Thread Michael Natterer
On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: There is no guarantee that there will be any taskbar at all. On linux, there are plenty of WM's that either provide a taskbar that is not suitable to implement your described behaviour, or no taskbar at all ( i use one of these myself, DWM

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-21 Thread David Gowers
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: There is no guarantee that there will be any taskbar at all. On linux, there are plenty of WM's that either provide a taskbar that is not suitable to

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-20 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: There is no guarantee that there will be any taskbar at all. On linux, there are plenty of WM's that either provide a taskbar that is not suitable to implement your described behaviour, or no taskbar at all ( i use one of these

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-20 Thread Laxminarayan Kamath
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: There is no guarantee that there will be any taskbar at all. snip/ IMO taskbars are a kludge, and it is a mistake for an application to *depend* on them for basic

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-19 Thread peter sikking
OK guys, here comes the moment where I have to cut the crap. Just like Sven or Mitch cut the crap when users keep discussing things that are technically not possible, I have to cut the crap when we keep discussing interaction that simply does not make sense. That is why I listed the gimmicks at

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-19 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 19:46 +0100, peter sikking wrote: Just like Sven or Mitch cut the crap when users keep discussing things that are technically not possible, I have to cut the crap when we keep discussing interaction that simply does not make sense. OK. As long as the result is

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-19 Thread buralex
peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on Feb 19, 2008 13:46 -0500 (in part): You missed one of the mails in this thread then. If we use this window as a DND target, where should our users drop images when it is not there? I think the remaining question is: when GIMP is not the

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-19 Thread David Gowers
On Feb 20, 2008 11:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] said on Feb 19, 2008 13:46 -0500 (in part): You missed one of the mails in this thread then. If we use this window as a DND target, where should our users drop images when it is not there? I think

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-18 Thread Tobias Jakobs
On Feb 18, 2008 8:27 AM, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 05:13 -0200, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Anyway, I'd would like to know why common tasks wouldn't fit there Yeah, I would also like to know that. I thin peter explained i in one of the first mails:

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-18 Thread peter sikking
I only have time to write a quick note, so here we go: Yes, focus on the 'yelling kid' to imagine what kind of interaction avoid. Our core users are people who know what they are doing. They do not need 'help'. GIMP has to avoid trying to be the boy scout helping the grandma across the busy

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-18 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 12:21 +0100, Tobias Jakobs wrote: You can see the problem very good, if you start Krita. Krita has such a yelling start dialog. But I'm not sure if not having common tasks in the start window is the solution or if we just have to design it more carefully than Krita.

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-18 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2008-02-18 at 14:54 +0100, peter sikking wrote: Our core users are people who know what they are doing. They do not need 'help'. Yes, they do. This dialog is the first thing people see when starting GIMP. And a large fraction of our users are beginners. So we have a good chance

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-17 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 05:13 -0200, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Anyway, I'd would like to know why common tasks wouldn't fit there Yeah, I would also like to know that. And finally... a drag here sign sounds as a gimmick too for me. Indeed. In particular since we already found that using

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-16 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Oh... the no gimmicks thing. Nevermind then... Gez. Anyway, I'd would like to know why common tasks wouldn't fit there (apart of the usual it sucks). Create a new image, open an existing image and open a recent file are the first things people do with gimp. So why not? I use drag and drop to

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-16 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Sorry if I'm too late with this reply, but I just came back from my vacations. A couple of months ago I studied this issue and proposed a mockup of an introductory window for using when no image is open. http://www.blog.ohweb.com.ar/?p=59 Sven explained some of the technical problems of this

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-08 Thread peter sikking
Tobias Jakobs wrote: I thought about it and I created this mock-up: http://hagemaenner.de/stuff/gimp/PlanB/6.png In the center of the area I've added a simpel text Drop Images here to open them. (Perhaps a native speaker should change the wording.) I have been moving in the same

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-08 Thread M Gagnon
I thought about it and I created this mock-up: http://hagemaenner.de/stuff/gimp/PlanB/6.png In the center of the area I've added a simpel text Drop Images here to open them. (Perhaps a native speaker should change the wording.) I really like this image. I think what could make it

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-08 Thread David Gowers
Hi Tobias, I like the simple, functional design of this. Do you know, has what the toolbox would become, already been resolved? I notice this does not seem to concern people presently. On Feb 8, 2008 9:01 AM, Tobias Jakobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Dienstag, den 05.02.2008, 11:26 +0100

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-08 Thread Liam R E Quin
On Fri, 2008-02-08 at 19:12 +0100, peter sikking wrote: Tobias Jakobs wrote: I thought about it and I created this mock-up: http://hagemaenner.de/stuff/gimp/PlanB/6.png [...] I have been moving in the same direction in the last days. If the main function of the window 'body' under the

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-07 Thread Tobias Jakobs
Am Dienstag, den 05.02.2008, 11:26 +0100 schrieb peter sikking: GIMPsters, Let me state that I wrote my first email in this thread because (yes) I am struggling what to put there. It is easy for me to make the list of gimmicks that not should go in there. Every on of those sucks so much...

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Feb 4, 2008 11:14 PM, Sven Neumann wrote: in the window. Useful content means GTK+ widgets. And we can't (yet) make GTK+ widgets translucent. Are you 100% sure? http://www.breakitdownblog.com/gnome-murrine-theme-gets-transparent-widgets/ Alexandre

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread peter sikking
GIMPsters, I am very busy, so I am going to weed out the actual contributions of y'all and respond to that: Sven wrote: We absolutely need to find a solution here that works for everyone. very well said. that's why the gimmicks section is in the spec. Thorsten raised a good point about the

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Feb 5, 2008 1:26 PM, peter sikking wrote: And we can't (yet) make GTK+ widgets translucent. Are you 100% sure? http://www.breakitdownblog.com/gnome-murrine-theme-gets-transparent- widgets/ that is cool (but not for this UI design). I would like to know how universally (all linux

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
peter sikking wrote: Alexandre wrote: And we can't (yet) make GTK+ widgets translucent. Are you 100% sure? http://www.breakitdownblog.com/gnome-murrine-theme-gets-transparent- widgets/ that is cool (but not for this UI design). I would like to know how universally

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread David Gowers
Alexandre, What Peter describes does not involve transparent windows. I agree it does not seem useful, in sense of literal opacity.. Rather, a waterlevel-type adjustment could suit this idea better..with widgets appearing or disappearing according to whether they are above waterlevel. It's

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-05 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 12:07 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: in the window. Useful content means GTK+ widgets. And we can't (yet) make GTK+ widgets translucent. Are you 100% sure? http://www.breakitdownblog.com/gnome-murrine-theme-gets-transparent-widgets/ Yes, I am. What your

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 01:35 +0100, peter sikking wrote: 4) a plugin system for this window; we ship a standard, good one like above. If somebody really insists he or she wants to see a file open dialog every time or the 10 last edited pictures (both not very good ideas to force upon one

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 01:35 +0100, peter sikking wrote: and oh, note that the slider to set the alpha of what goes on in that window will be there anyway... This is not currently implementable, so I would rather not base the spec on this opacity slider. I also very much wonder why the

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 09:01 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: I also very much wonder why the window should have something as useless as a slider to control the visual appearance but lack any useful widgets to give people quick access to the things they will most likely do next. What's wrong about a

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread peter sikking
Sven wrote: On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 01:35 +0100, peter sikking wrote: and oh, note that the slider to set the alpha of what goes on in that window will be there anyway... This is not currently implementable, so I would rather not base the spec on this opacity slider. just to clarify: are

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Thorsten Wilms
On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 10:48 +0100, peter sikking wrote: the slider is a dead serious key in the whole experience. to seamlessly track the mood of users over a a working day (or a hobby night) is worth gold in user interaction. You seem to assume that - users will adjust the slider repeatedly

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread saulgoode
The no image window should have a status line, as this provides useful feedback with regard to the hover-over hints of the menu commands. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Bill Skaggs
Actually, if plug-in means something like a fill pattern that could be user-specified in the same way as the splash screen, I think it would be possible to implement everything Peter has specified here -- including the opacity slider -- using the scratch image framework I've been experimenting

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Alchemie foto\grafiche
I get the sensation that often most trivial solution are overlooked, only because are trivial, even if simple things often work better Users, ( i state as users not as expert of usability) just are used to see graphic sw open with a image windows...i don't thing they will appreciate a special

Re: [Gimp-developer] no image open spec...

2008-02-04 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 10:48 +0100, peter sikking wrote: just to clarify: are you assuming that the whole window will become transparent and the desktop shines through? No. That would be implementable as there's GTK+ API to do that (though not supported on all platforms). I am talking