Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-20 Thread peter sikking
photocomix wrote: i knew that Peter Sikking (or somebody else from Gimp UI brainstorm staff)replied but the message get lost for technical problems (full storage disk) yes, I am (by default) the Gimp UI brainstorm staff, and I had about 3 threads going on here before the list collapsed.

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-20 Thread Rob Antonishen
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:02 AM, peter sikking wrote: so that is why I am against this.     --ps Even that said, anyone is free to develop a save and export plugin and offer it up for public consumption. It may not make it into the core, but assuming it is worthwhile, it will find use.

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-20 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
[Looks like every time I post, I kill the list. My apologies; reposting] On 2009-10-05, photoco...@gmail.com for...@gimpusers.com wrote: So why do not offer a chance to speed up the workflow, save time and patience achieving both result simultaneusly ? A image is worth 1.000 words ,to

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-05 Thread Martin Nordholts
Hi, On 10/05/2009 02:10 AM, photoco...@gmail.com wrote: But even if conceptually different in practice , both operation are always needed for the every edited image: is needed to Save the original AND to export as jpg or png . This assumption is wrong. Complex compositions will need to be

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-05 Thread Liam R E Quin
On Mon, 2009-10-05 at 22:24 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote: Hi, On 10/05/2009 02:10 AM, photoco...@gmail.com wrote: But even if conceptually different in practice , both operation are always needed for the every edited image: is needed to Save the original AND to export as jpg or png .

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + Export proposal

2009-10-04 Thread Omari Stephens
photoco...@gmail.com wrote: ::snip? SNIP!:: As you may see the idea is not to replace the Export dialog, but to offer a handy option from the Save dialog, to simultaneously export , with same name and in the same directory in other file formats Wouldn't this be fairly straightforward to do as

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save/Export Patch

2009-09-16 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM, James Hughes wrote: Hello, Can someone advice me the best place to start in making a patch to the UI to revert the 2.7 version to using the 2.6 style save dialogue. If someone would kindly point me in the right direction of which files I need to change would

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save/Export Patch

2009-09-16 Thread Alexia Death
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 1:16 PM, James Hughes wrote: Hello, Can someone advice me the best place to start in making a patch to the UI to revert the 2.7 version to using the 2.6 style save

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save/Export Patch

2009-09-16 Thread Martin Nordholts
On 09/16/2009 11:16 AM, James Hughes wrote: Hello, Can someone advice me the best place to start in making a patch to the UI to revert the 2.7 version to using the 2.6 style save dialogue. If someone would kindly point me in the right direction of which files I need to change would

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save/Export Patch

2009-09-16 Thread Liam R E Quin
On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 10:16 +0100, James Hughes wrote: Can someone advice me the best place to start in making a patch to the UI to revert the 2.7 version to using the 2.6 style save dialogue. If you can bear it, I'd say wait a little longer - the design is still evolving, and I think it's

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-18 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Martin Nordholts wrote: One notable change is that Ctrl + E is now bound to File-Export by default instead of View-Shrink Wrap. Hopefully this change will not be too much of a pain. We may need to consider finding a new keyboard shortcut for View-Shrink Wrap.

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-18 Thread peter sikking
Alexandre wrote: On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Martin Nordholts wrote: One notable change is that Ctrl + E is now bound to File-Export by default instead of View-Shrink Wrap. Hopefully this change will not be too much of a pain. We may need to consider finding a new keyboard shortcut

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-18 Thread Martin Nordholts
peter sikking wrote: after checking out Inkscape and Scribus, I think Alexandre just added another valid factor, which means that the balance just tipped the other way: Export should be shift-ctrl-E 'Export to org.file' should be ctrl-E Makes sense, I'll swap the shortcuts. It is quite

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-16 Thread Martin Nordholts
Martin Nordholts wrote: Hi I have been working on implementing the Save + export spec [1] for a while. And I have also merged the base work to GNOME master now, so to try it out all you have to do is git pull. There is still work to be done (see the merge commit message) but we are

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread peter sikking
Michal wrote: This is a point that Martin and I discussed on irc. Here is the main point that the changes are clarifying is: a file is only safe when it is Saved (in xcf) this means that export is never the solution to unsaved changes and Export and Export to foo.png cannot be there in

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread yahvuu
Hi all, peter sikking schrieb: foo.png was never inside GIMP. it was an xcf that had foo.png as a starting point. we try to reflect this in every way. one way that came up during LGM discussions was that the layer should be always (even for background) be named after the image that was

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread peter sikking
peter (yahvuu) wrote: peter sikking schrieb: foo.png was never inside GIMP. it was an xcf that had foo.png as a starting point. we try to reflect this in every way. one way that came up during LGM discussions was that the layer should be always (even for background) be named after the

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
Can one guarantee GIMP compositions will be at least correctly rendered with third-party viewers as image browsing is not in GIMP goals? At least recently xcf has been considered as internal GIMP format. Having thousands files what cannot be easily and quickly viewed and organized is not a

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote: Pleasant interactive cropping In fact tools like Lightroom or Rawstudio beat GIMP for me when it comes to cropping of photos -- for reasons multiple times explained to GIMP developers. and scaling, required for web are enough

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread Martin Nordholts
Alexander Rabtchevich wrote: Can one guarantee GIMP compositions will be at least correctly rendered with third-party viewers as image browsing is not in GIMP goals? At least recently xcf has been considered as internal GIMP format. Having thousands files what cannot be easily and quickly

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-13 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
I suspect thumbnailing will not be enough. Let's see an example of high end workflow for photography. One has taken a bunch of RAW images. He has to browse them and compare, delete the bad ones. Then the images need conversion with desired comparing at that stage and the selection goes on...

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread peter sikking
Michal wrote: first of all, thanks for trying it out and commenting. My comments and observations: 1. When I try to save and I change extension to (for example) .png, GIMP message appears: You can use this dialog to save to the GIMP XCF format. Use File- Export to export to other file

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
While I haven't tried the new behavior, I would like to be able to see either I have made any changes after the export in the title bar or not. Now it is indicated with a star. I prefer to see it remained. 2. When I open image foo.png, do some changes and close it, GIMP message says: Save

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread peter sikking
Alexander Rabtchevich wrote: While I haven't tried the new behavior, I would like to be able to see either I have made any changes after the export in the title bar or not. Now it is indicated with a star. I prefer to see it remained. that would mean we needed two indicators, one that is

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
I think you are too biased towards xcf as an everyday storage format. It is not needed very often, at least for now. May I provide my usual workflow? 1. I take pictures in RAW. 2. I convert the pictures I liked in UFRaw and save the result in jpg with maximum quality (1:1:1, floating point,

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread peter sikking
Alexander Rabtchevich wrote: I think you are too biased towards xcf as an everyday storage format. It is not needed very often, at least for now. May I provide my usual workflow? I read your workflow and I am confident that when you try it out you will find that we support it well with

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
Peter, I think you (or me :) ) will be surprised if know the statistics on the percentage of photos which really need complex retouching or complex actions with layers. The most common cases I can give are face retouching, repairing of a photo with too high dynamic range or correcting

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Alexander Rabtchevich wrote: correcting perspective distortion. If a photo is properly exposed, has not excessive noise and is not a portrait of a person you need to improve, there is no need to retouch it after proper RAW conversion. And therefore there is no

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Alexander Rabtchevich alexander.v.rabtchev...@iaph.bas-net.by wrote: Peter, I think you (or me :) ) will be surprised if know the statistics on the percentage of photos which really need complex retouching or complex actions with layers. The most common cases I

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-12 Thread Alexander Rabtchevich
Pleasant interactive cropping and scaling, required for web are enough reasons. Red eyes reduction sometimes... Why should one use something other if the tool he uses most of the time is convenient and powerful? The above mentioned actions are not too complicated to be reproduced in one

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread Jernej Simončič
On Thursday, May 7, 2009, 0:24:12, Martin Nordholts wrote: I have been working on implementing the Save + export spec [1] for a while. Since it will affect the workflow for basically everyone it would be nice with getting some testing and comments before we finalize I built a Windows

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread saulgoode
Quoting Martin Nordholts ense...@gmail.com: I have been working on implementing the Save + export spec [1] for a while. : : Comments very much appreciated! I haven't GITified my development yet and thus have not tried your implementation. If your request for comments is only on the

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread David Gowers
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Martin Nordholts ense...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I have been working on implementing the Save + export spec [1] for a while. Since it will affect the workflow for basically everyone it would be nice with getting some testing and comments before we finalize, merge

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread Martin Nordholts
2009/5/7 David Gowers 00a...@gmail.com patch #0010 fails: Did you pull from GNOME master before you applied the patches? I should have said that the patches requires latest GNOME master. If you apply the patches on top of commit 9c2aae1281d.. you should be fine. This works REALLY well! I 3

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread Martin Nordholts
2009/5/7 saulgo...@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com If your request for comments is only on the implementation and you are not expecting comments on the export spec itself, I apologize for the following question: Shouldn't the Save a copy... menu item be eliminated since its functionality can

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials implemented

2009-05-07 Thread Liam R E Quin
On Thu, 2009-05-07 at 17:08 +0200, Jernej Simončič wrote: [...] Show me one person outside GIMP developer community that thinks this is a sane change. I don't think many people think it's a sane change, but that's not the right question. The question is, will the resulting interface be good?

Re: [Gimp-developer] Save + export spec essentials

2009-05-07 Thread M Gagnon
Show me one person outside GIMP developer community that thinks this is a sane change. Totally irrelevant comment, if you ask me; this is a patch on a development version. Not many users will have tried it. Sure, there's the windows installer, but it remains a development version and an

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-09 Thread peter sikking
On 9 Mar 2009, at 1:06, David Gowers gave gg a washing. and then... Open, edit, export as XXX (where XXX is original file -- one of the actions described in the spec.), export settings could be taken from the info in the original file. thanks for bringing that up. looks like for something

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 18:27 +0100, peter sikking wrote: first, Copy visible as new image could easily turn out too smart, but since the bottom Background layer prefers to be one without alpha, I can see something like: when ‘visible’ has effectively universal full opacity, then omit

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 16:03 +0100, peter sikking wrote: no, squeezing these export options in the save dialog is not possible. I think there is a misunderstanding here. What people suggested is not to put the export options into the Save file-chooser but into the dialog that the save

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2009-03-08 at 11:15 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: Not all save plug-ins do this, but for those that do it seems to make a lot of choice to integrate the export questions there. That was supposed to read ... it seems to make a lot of sense Sven

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread peter sikking
Sven wrote: On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 16:03 +0100, peter sikking wrote: no, squeezing these export options in the save dialog is not possible. I think there is a misunderstanding here. OK, I looked to much at that attached mock-up. What people suggested is not to put the export options

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread Alchemie foto\grafiche
On Sat, 2009-03-07 at 18:27 +0100, peter sikking wrote: first, Copy visible as new image could easily turn out too smart, but since the bottom Background layer prefers to be one without alpha, The first basic assumption is wrong...so maybe what build on that need reconsideration A

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread peter sikking
yahvuu wrote: what an inspiring post. peter sikking schrieb: I must also point out that this save + export change is also a change in attitude for GIMP. it clearly supports that our high-end users work in no-loss xcf all the time (if they want to store results) and that also means avoiding

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread gg
peter sikking wrote: Liam wrote: I had a careful look at this: My own workflow for www.fromoldbooks.org tends to be, 1. scan image with xsane plugin 2. crop if needed 3. save as 306-svens-ankles-raw.png 4. either quit after doing several of these, or continue with one... 5. use levels,

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread David Gowers
Hello, On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:09 AM, gg g...@catking.net wrote: there is a problem with this new attitude. Why does GIMP try to impose this you will work with xcf or die dictate? Because it has always been an XCF editor, not an anything else editor. Being able to modify images loaded from

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread gg
David Gowers wrote: Hello, On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:09 AM, gg g...@catking.net wrote: there is a problem with this new attitude. Why does GIMP try to impose this you will work with xcf or die dictate? Because it has always been an XCF editor, not an anything else editor. Being able to

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-08 Thread Alec Burgess
gg (g...@catking.net) wrote (in part) (on 2009-03-08 at 20:55): Sounds good. If exporting to original name with original options is readily accessible from a top level menu without having to retype the name that would be pretty good. I am concerned about whether this would require you

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-07 Thread peter sikking
Sven wrote: Let's have a look at the capabilities that the save plug-ins announce: thanks for this overview, good for reference. I saw yesterday how these questions get combined in one dialog. that is a good thing. now that with the new spec the Export part is explicit, I want to make one

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-07 Thread peter sikking
Sven wrote: PS: In your particular workflow, basically you are already doing the export conversion yourself. What's breaking your workflow is the fact that Copy visible as new image introduces an alpha channel. To improve your workflow we should have a look at that and try to

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-07 Thread Chris Mohler
I know this thread is already getting long, but I'd prefer to see Export behave similar to: 1. Create a new, multilayer XCF 2. File-Export 3. Name it something.png, click Next 4. Set options, click Save At no point do I want to be nagged about layers, masks, or anything else. If there were a

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-07 Thread peter sikking
Liam wrote: I had a careful look at this: My own workflow for www.fromoldbooks.org tends to be, 1. scan image with xsane plugin 2. crop if needed 3. save as 306-svens-ankles-raw.png 4. either quit after doing several of these, or continue with one... 5. use levels, curves, rotate, flatten,

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread peter sikking
Rob Antonishen wrote: Read this with intrest (as a user) what is the intrinsic difference between save a copy and save as? I am assuming the working document changes in the save as case to the new saved as file. In the save a copy case I assume the working doment is unchanged. yes it works

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 11:50 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: Does this mean that the annoying pop-up asking If I want to export will go away if I choose export? The dialog does not really ask you if you want to export. It informs you that the image can't be saved because the format you have

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread saulgoode
Quoting peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net: we have discussed this intensely before, the ambiguity of what you really got in your document window after opening--or saving to--a non-GIMP-type image (e.g. jpeg, png). : : So here is a short spec:

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Daniel Hornung
On Friday 06 March 2009, Sven Neumann wrote: So we probably need to add specific actions to save a layer, a channel or a layer mask. If that (plus to save all of a kind, e.g. all layers) could go into the generic save dialog, we would have another 10% questions less on irc :) Daniel

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 07:33 -0500, saulgo...@flashingtwelve.brickfilms.com wrote: I also think that it must be possible to export to GIMP file types. This is necessary so that more than one version of GIMP data files can be supported. (ie, GIMP 4.0 might still need to create GIMP 2.x

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread peter sikking
Sven wrote: Alexia wrote: Does this mean that the annoying pop-up asking If I want to export will go away if I choose export? The dialog does not really ask you if you want to export. It informs you that the image can't be saved because the format you have chosen can not handle some

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 14:17 +0100, peter sikking wrote: right. one thing I have no overview of is how many ‘topics’ there are for which there are dialogs. Up to now I have seen layers, transparency, bit-depths. Let's have a look at the capabilities that the save plug-ins announce:

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Alexia Death
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: This results in a variety of possible dialogs: And? If I save to a format it can be assumed that I know its limitations. Being warned once about the information loss is good enough. Mind, gimp does not even do that right now.

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread yahvuu
great this gets tracked down. One minor suggestion, a simple renaming: Export...= Export as... Save back= Export this way, 'Export' resembles 'Save' as a one-click-action and 'Export as...' parallels 'Save as'. Additionally, the association between 'Save' and safe is kept

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread yahvuu
oops, just recognized i'm replicating a previous post, sorry yahvuu schrieb: One minor suggestion, a simple renaming: Export...= Export as... Save back= Export ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Kevin Cozens
yahvuu wrote: One minor suggestion, a simple renaming: Export...= Export as... Save back= Export this way, 'Export' resembles 'Save' as a one-click-action and 'Export as...' parallels 'Save as'. That sounds good to me. Save back would be something I've never seen in any

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Alexia Death
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 17:37 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: And? If I save to a format it can be assumed that I know its limitations. Being warned once about the information loss is good enough. That is not what GIMP is

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 18:03 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: Why would I convert it beforehand? Why would a user need to do a bunch of actions that serve no purpose, are mostly 100% automatic and even hinder when I want to follow the export action up with a native save? Because they are not

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 17:24 +0100, Jon Senior wrote: Just to present the opposing case. My workflow is: 1) Open raw image via the ufraw plugin. 2) Retouch as necessary, saving as xcf file. 3) Copy visible as new image 4) Resize new image for print or web + sharpen as neccessary. 5)

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Jon Senior
Apologies. I think I hit reply, not reply-all. On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 17:40:36 +0100 Sven Neumann s...@gimp.org wrote: Sure, we all just want the computer do do what we want, without being asked. But unfortunately mind-reading devices are not yet available. So the only thing we can do is to ask

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-06 Thread Liam R E Quin
On Fri, 2009-03-06 at 17:40 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote: [...] I am all for improving this situation. But so far no one has come up with a good idea how this could be done. We can't just guess what the user might want to do. We could do better than today. E.g. export to tiff should be probably

Re: [Gimp-developer] save + export...

2009-03-05 Thread Jon Senior
On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:36:52 +0100 peter sikking pe...@mmiworks.net wrote: Hi all, we have discussed this intensely before, the ambiguity of what you really got in your document window after opening--or saving to--a non-GIMP-type image (e.g. jpeg, png). The discussion returned on the