Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-06 Thread Daniel . Egger

On  5 Feb, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:

 Argh.. I am used to toggle between paintbrush and pencil. Like I
 pointed out in my previous mail on this thread, I use the paintbrush
 as a "fine tuning" tool together with the "real" tool I am drawing
 with. And if it is the paintbrush, then there is no way to toggle fast
 between those.. clicking a checkbox every time instead of pressing a
 shortcut key sounds clumsy.

 We could add a plugin with toggles this per shortcut. Would that be
 sufficient? 

-- 

Servus,
   Daniel



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Sven Neumann

  I think it's time to remove that useless pencil before the release
  of the magic version 1.2. Did anyone use it in the last time?
  It contains no functionality that paintbrush doesn't have except of
  hard edges (anyone needing that "feature"?)...

It is a very important feature, believe me! But the pencil can easily
be merged with the Paintbrush by adding a "Hard Edges" option. This will
add all the goodies the paintbrush has (like gradient and fadeout) to 
the pencil tool for free.

I'm all for removing the Path Tool, the Xinput Airbrush and and merging
Pencil and Paintbrush. If I counted correctly this would reduce the 
number of tools to 24. This is a perfect number of tools since 
24 % [2|3|4] == 0 which means we always get a nicely layed out toolbox.


Salut, Sven




Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Daniel . Egger

On  5 Feb, Sven Neumann wrote:

 It is a very important feature, believe me!

 It's your right to consider it useful, I don't and won't believe you...

 But the pencil can easily
 be merged with the Paintbrush by adding a "Hard Edges" option.

 Yes, if you appreciate. But the makes the eraser rather useless...
 We could add the eraser features, too and use the same codebase for
 these 2 tools.

-- 

Servus,
   Daniel



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Daniel . Egger

On  5 Feb, SHIRASAKI Yasuhiro wrote:

 I'm all for removing the Path Tool, the Xinput Airbrush and and
 merging Pencil and Paintbrush. If I counted correctly this would
 reduce the number of tools to 24. This is a perfect number of tools
 since 24 % [2|3|4] == 0 which means we always get a nicely layed out
 toolbox. 

 core and plug-ins feature isn't frozen yet? 

 This would be a proper cleanup. Do you want to leave old cruft in for
 release rather than removing it?
  
-- 

Servus,
   Daniel



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Sven Neumann

 I'm all for removing the Path Tool, the Xinput Airbrush and and merging
 Pencil and Paintbrush. If I counted correctly this would reduce the 
 number of tools to 24. This is a perfect number of tools since 
 24 % [2|3|4] == 0 which means we always get a nicely layed out toolbox.
 
 core and plug-ins feature isn't frozen yet?

Yep, they are. But the Path tool and Xinput Airbrush have only been added 
with the option of being removed before 1.2. Since they are not integrated 
into any other tools, it's only a matter of removing a few files and some
small changes in tools.c and menus.c.

Merging the Pencil and Paintbrush is somehow similar since they are 
practically the same tool with only one parameter changed in the call
to paint_core_paste_canvas (). So we can merge them w/o having to be 
afraid of introducing new bugs.


Salut, Sven




Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Garry R. Osgood

Sven Neumann wrote:

 snipped...

 I'm all for removing the Path Tool,

Agreed: In my opinion, there is just too much work to integrate
for March 31 (56 days away and counting).

 the Xinput Airbrush

Agreed: I've just got Wacom Intuos working with GTK+/GDK on SGI,
and on this platform using the Xinput Airbrush with the tablet
crashes Gimp nearly every time.

 and and merging
 Pencil and Paintbrush.

Agree in concept, as part of a more unified paintbrush for 1.3, but
I vote that we do not remove the pencil for the 1.2. About half
the people I speak with think of it as a "hard-edge paintbrush"
and their instincts have them grab the pencil whenever they want
to do "precision" drawing.

I also agree with Nick Lamb in that our energies ought to be
spent in ferreting out unusual behaviour, logging bug
reports, and fixing those that are tractible, given our various
skills and talents. I believe this effort is more important than
rescuing tools that just aren't done yet.

Just this morning I discovered (1) Fuzzy select works
fine with core pointers but with when the tablet is
being used as a pointer device, Fuzzy select can run for minutes,
and its not unusual to find 60 -120 references to the function
find_contiguous_region_helper() on the call stack.
(runaway recursion - don't know why, yet) (2) Confirmed
with Calvin Williamson on Wednesday that the smudge tool
should *never* introduce the color black when  (a) "Keep
Trans=TRUE" AND (b) No black is in the image AND
(c) the user smudges from transparency to opacity. (3)
After switching to the tablet, then using tool icon drag-and-drop
in the Device Status dialog box, I *usually* get a segment violation.

Three bugs in four days. And I wasn't really looking for them,
They just happened when I was trying to have fun.
I don't think we can even begin to claim Gimp Stability yet.

56 days to All Fools' Day.  Must file some bug reports now.

Be good, be well

Garry Osgood




Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Kelly Lynn Martin

On Sat, 5 Feb 2000 11:45:16 +0100 (CET), [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 I think it's time to remove that useless pencil before the release
of the magic version 1.2. Did anyone use it in the last time?  It
contains no functionality that paintbrush doesn't have except of hard
edges (anyone needing that "feature"?)...

I find it very useful when working on small pixmaps (like icons).

Kelly



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Seth Burgess

My vote is for the merge of pencil and paintbrush.  I don't see that 
having a hard-edged paintbrush is really worthy of its own icon, though
it will need an option added in paintbrush.  I don't know of anything
that utilizes pencil in PDB at this point, but maybe I'm mistaken?  I 
doubt removing pencil* would hurt much...

Speaking of PDB, thats something that needs some serious updating - lots
of the abilities are no longer accessible for quite a few of the tools.
gimp-paintbrush for example doesn't include incremental, the fade out
distance, the gradient selection/type, or the units.  I suspect others
have gotten similarly out-of-sync as we madly added niftyness...

I'd hope this would be a pre-1.2 bug-fix, since missing PDB stuff has
traditionally been handled in that manner.

Seth


* Marc Lehmann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [000205 16:40]:
 On Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 07:13:00PM +0200, Tuomas Kuosmanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  in my previous mail on this thread, I use the paintbrush as a "fine tuning"
  tool together with the "real" tool I am drawing with. And if it is the
  paintbrush, then there is no way to toggle fast between those.. clicking a
  checkbox every time instead of pressing a shortcut key sounds clumsy.
 
 I guess the correct fix (in 1.3!!) would be to be able to attach shortcuts
 to checkboxes.
 
 For 1.2 there IMHO shouldn't be a merge.
 
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Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Tuomas Kuosmanen

On Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 11:45:16AM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hiho!
 
  I think it's time to remove that useless pencil before the release
  of the magic version 1.2. Did anyone use it in the last time?
  It contains no functionality that paintbrush doesn't have except of
  hard edges (anyone needing that "feature"?)...

Some minor projects like Gnome icons come to mind.. 

I use the pencil every day. And a _lot_. It is way sharper than the
paintbrush even with the 1x1 brush.. I use it as an ultra sharp tool with
low opacity to do microscopic stuff on icons :)

Tuomas

-- 

.---( t i g e r t @ g i m p . o r g )---.
| some stuff at http://tigert.gimp.org/ |
`---'



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Tuomas Kuosmanen

On Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 01:09:13PM +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
   I think it's time to remove that useless pencil before the release
   of the magic version 1.2. Did anyone use it in the last time?
   It contains no functionality that paintbrush doesn't have except of
   hard edges (anyone needing that "feature"?)...
 
 It is a very important feature, believe me! But the pencil can easily
 be merged with the Paintbrush by adding a "Hard Edges" option. This will
 add all the goodies the paintbrush has (like gradient and fadeout) to 
 the pencil tool for free.

Argh.. I am used to toggle between paintbrush and pencil. Like I pointed out
in my previous mail on this thread, I use the paintbrush as a "fine tuning"
tool together with the "real" tool I am drawing with. And if it is the
paintbrush, then there is no way to toggle fast between those.. clicking a
checkbox every time instead of pressing a shortcut key sounds clumsy.

 
 I'm all for removing the Path Tool, the Xinput Airbrush and and merging
 Pencil and Paintbrush. If I counted correctly this would reduce the 
 number of tools to 24. This is a perfect number of tools since 
 24 % [2|3|4] == 0 which means we always get a nicely layed out toolbox.

Wasnt the path tool intended as a replacement for the current bezier tool
anyway? So it's button was only temporary until it was ready for use. Is it
alive anymore?

Tuomas
-- 

.---( t i g e r t @ g i m p . o r g )---.
| some stuff at http://tigert.gimp.org/ |
`---'



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Torsten Rahn



On Sat, 5 Feb 2000, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:

 On Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 11:45:16AM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hiho!
  
   I think it's time to remove that useless pencil before the release
   of the magic version 1.2. Did anyone use it in the last time?
   It contains no functionality that paintbrush doesn't have except of
   hard edges (anyone needing that "feature"?)...
 
 Some minor projects like Gnome icons come to mind.. 
 
 I use the pencil every day. And a _lot_. It is way sharper than the
 paintbrush even with the 1x1 brush.. I use it as an ultra sharp tool with
 low opacity to do microscopic stuff on icons :)
 
 Tuomas

Same situation here -- but it's KDE-icons instead ...
I use the pencil most of the time.
;^)

Torsten
 
 -- 
 
 .---( t i g e r t @ g i m p . o r g )---.
 | some stuff at http://tigert.gimp.org/ |
 `---'
 



Re: Removing pencil?

2000-02-05 Thread Marc Lehmann

On Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 07:13:00PM +0200, Tuomas Kuosmanen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 in my previous mail on this thread, I use the paintbrush as a "fine tuning"
 tool together with the "real" tool I am drawing with. And if it is the
 paintbrush, then there is no way to toggle fast between those.. clicking a
 checkbox every time instead of pressing a shortcut key sounds clumsy.

I guess the correct fix (in 1.3!!) would be to be able to attach shortcuts
to checkboxes.

For 1.2 there IMHO shouldn't be a merge.

-- 
  -==- |
  ==-- _   |
  ---==---(_)__  __   __   Marc Lehmann  +--
  --==---/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ /   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |e|
  -=/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\   XX11-RIPE --+
The choice of a GNU generation   |
 |