Re: [Gimp-docs] OT: experimenting with docbook-xml

2014-09-21 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Marco,

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 03:18:14AM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 Since I want to understand a bit more about the gimp build sistem
 I am trying to do the things by hand.
 
 I do not know automake/autotool so I do not really know how html, for
 instance, files are created.
 
 I copied all xml dir outside gimp tree dir and tried to build html by
 hand and failed miserably.
 
 I do not know docbook-xml either and I now know I was a bit naive
 thinking that a mere
 
  docbook2html it/gimp.xml
 
 will suffice.
 
 Can anyone help me understand? What I am missing?
It's just a matter of tooling. I'm not sure what the outcome of your
docbook2html attempt was, but I assume it was negative.

We chose to split up our manual into separate files according to the
help ID GIMP uses. Each file is tied into the manual with include
statements (xi:includes) to make up the book.

Furthermore, translations are separated into separate files. You'll need
to basically compile a translated version of the manual in order to
generate a translated HTML version out of it.

Potentially your tool will work. Look for --xinclude parameters in order
to build the manual. You'll have to find a way though, to create new
*translated* docbook files if you want anything else than English.

Feel free to ask more questions if you want.
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Re: [Gimp-docs] update of translation tools - for Roman Joost

2014-09-18 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Marco,

On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 10:47:21PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 Hi Roman, I am afraid of being a bit off topic (see below).
 I am wondering about this:
 
 http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Documentation:Main
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723512
 
 Why are you choosing this tool (publican)?
Two reasons:

* It would improve and extend the possible formats we can export to,
  since we would not have to write all the Makefile rules ourself.
* I've used it inside Red Hat.


 Have you considered po4a[1] eventually with the aid of sisu[2]
Nope. Thanks for sharing.

 
 [1]
 http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
 
 [2]
 http://www.jus.uio.no/sisu/sisu_markup/
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SiSU
 http://www.sisudoc.org/
 
I actually haven't started on the work looking into publican because of
real life.

What I do know is, that publican would not lower the barrier for writers
to contribute new content to the manual, since it still uses DocBook.

I did consider looking into asciidoc[1] tho, since asciidoc provides the
same semantic model, but is simple text. Yet a first glance at it, I was
unable to see any way on extracting the strings in order to support
translation based on po files. It looks like SiSU tries to achieve a
similar goal by using text. I think that would improve the manual, since
no one has to write XML anymore.

The additional benefit of asciidoc would be, that it could export to
docbook, which then could hook into our current setup. Not sure if this
is applicable tho.

 I am considering these tools for another project (KiCad) but I think that
 GIMP too could gain from these, as you pointed out, only I want to
 discuss pros and cons with someone more skilled than me. :-)
 
 Maybe we can catch two birds with one stone analizing these two tools for
 the two projects that IMHO have similar goals.
po4a could be a potential candidate to extract strings from asciidoc...
not sure.

 What do you think?
It's certainly worth looking into. All I did with publican is to check
if we could benefit from it.

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] update of translation tools - for Roman Joost

2014-09-18 Thread Roman Joost
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 01:00:55PM +1000, Roman Joost wrote:
 What I do know is, that publican would not lower the barrier for writers
 to contribute new content to the manual, since it still uses DocBook.
 
 I did consider looking into asciidoc[1] tho, since asciidoc provides the
 same semantic model, but is simple text. Yet a first glance at it, I was
 unable to see any way on extracting the strings in order to support
 translation based on po files. It looks like SiSU tries to achieve a
 similar goal by using text. I think that would improve the manual, since
 no one has to write XML anymore.
 [...]
And I forgot the link:

http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] update of translation tools - for Roman Joost

2014-09-18 Thread Roman Joost
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:07:24AM +0200, scl wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Marco's post reminds me that I lately read about the GNOME
 documentation project switching from DocBook to Mallard [1].
This is concerning. I never took Mallard as a big contender, since it
doesn't solve any of the problems with DocBook. For writers, writing XML
sucks. Now with Mallard we just say: Hey - you just write less XML,
but it will still suck.

 I think this is considerable if we want to use GNOME's manpower
 to contribute to GIMP's user documentation and it could also
 have impact on the choice of translation tools.
Yes, that is true. It feels a bit as if the documentation world splits
apart again in terms of tools.

I certainly can't understand from a users point of view, why we still
want to keep XML. I can understand it from a technical point of view -
yes ...

Kind Regards
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Re: [Gimp-docs] update of translation tools - for Roman Joost

2014-09-18 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Marco,


On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 10:47:21PM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 Hi Roman, I am afraid of being a bit off topic (see below).
 I am wondering about this:
 
 http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Documentation:Main
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723512
 
 Why are you choosing this tool (publican)?
 Have you considered po4a[1] eventually with the aid of sisu[2]
 
 [1]
 http://po4a.alioth.debian.org/
... at a closer glance, I see that this tool supports AsciiDoc:

text (simple text files with some formatting, markdown, or AsciiDoc)

I feel confident that might be a beneficial. Perhaps something worth
investigating in a branch and see how far we go.

Cheers,
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[Gimp-docs] 2.8.2 release

2014-07-28 Thread Roman Joost
Hi,

I've created the GIMP_HELP_2_8_2 branch today to prepare a new release.
Can I go ahead or do I need to hold of for some additional fixup?

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Greek online manual

2014-03-14 Thread Roman Joost
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 08:37:08AM +0200, Δ Σ wrote:
 High,
 I can't see in User Manual web site and in Online Manual-HTML the Greek
 Edition.
Just for your info. I've added the link to the Greek translation today.
Thanks again for spotting.

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] [Gimp-developer] Gimp Manual Roadmap proposal

2014-02-11 Thread Roman Joost
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 05:49:56PM +0100, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 On Sat, Feb 08, 2014 at 12:26:11PM +0100, Marco Ciampa wrote:
  IMHO gimp-help should follow the gimp versioning convention
  for avoid confusion, i.e. the new gimp-help-2 should be gimp-2.10.
 
 May I rewrite the wiki in this respect?
Sure, sure! Please do! It's not only me who can work on the roadmap...

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Gimp Manual Roadmap proposal

2014-02-11 Thread Roman Joost
Dear RyoTa,

On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 11:52:13PM +0900, RyoTa SimaMoto wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I am warry about to use Publican.
 
 Publican prohibits to use link linkend=...WORD(S)/link tag
 then allows xref linkend=.../ tag only for internal hyperlink.
 (xreflabel is also disallowed.)
 http://jfearn.fedorapeople.org/en-US/Publican/3.2/html/Users_Guide/appe-Users_Guide-Disallowed_elements_and_attributes.html
 
 That means we need revise whole text so that each targeted section
 has a title.  In much cases on our document, we use link with
 verb/noun for representing an action, a filter, or a tool of GIMP
 instead of using its title in the reference section.  To replace it
 with xref, almost links may be reformed in 'see also' style,
 because it cannot be replaced with other adjusted phrase for inline
 context at referring text.
Cheers for pointing this out. It seems that this needs to be looked at
closer in order to figure out the best way to go about it. A migration
seems to be quite costly...

 
 I presume some translators may unwelcome this restriction especially
 for languages that have conjugation and/or declension, when xref
 tag happens in the middle of text structure.
Thanks for this valuable pointer. To keep the discussion for this topic
in one place, would you mind moving this to the associated bug?

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723512

Cheers!
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[Gimp-docs] Gimp Manual Roadmap proposal

2014-02-05 Thread Roman Joost
Hi,

I've put together a Roadmap proposal under:

http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Documentation:Main

Any feedback is welcome. Some of the points are not to be read as: go
ahead and implement, but rather look into it for it's feasibility.

If there are no objections or comments I'd basically call the roadmap
silently as accepted. For each point I think it'll be good to create
bugs so we can track progress.

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] [Gimp-web] Proposed gimp tutorial

2013-07-10 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Stephen,

On Tue, Jul 02, 2013 at 12:37:33PM -0700, Stephen Kiel wrote:
 Roman,
 
 I did browse through some of the tutorials  looked at they way they were
 marked up.  I don't think porting my tutorials into a markup language will
 be any problem.  The part that I don't really understand yet is whether
 there are tags that will or won't work right.  In other words, if the XHTLM
 is well formed and presents in a web browser is there any downstream
 processing that looks at or uses particular tags? e.g. some of the xhtml
 that I looked at used the older b tags for bold instead of strong.
 Both work, one is more contemporary, but what I am wondering is whether
 there is a reason to use the older tag format.
Not sure. I think these are remnants of old edits which have simply been
updated for a new version of the website.

 Once I do get ready to check out the module and add my tutorial, is there
 any kind of an approval process, or do I just stage the changes and commit
 them?
Usually you can send in your patches and they're been reviewed by people
who have access to the module. The more you contribute, the more likely
maintainers see to getting you commit (read: push) rights.

 Thanks for the feedback  help.
Happy to help!

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Help building help.

2013-07-01 Thread Roman Joost
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 05:04:10PM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Roman Joost wrote:
  On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:00:12AM +0200, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 
  Anyhow, perhaps it makes more sense to move to a epub/Kindle solution. I
  can relate to Marco here, since I'm also using my Kindle to read most of
  my books now. The Kindle format is even simiar to HTML. Not sure if
  there are already packages out there who go from DocBook to Kindle/epub.
 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/docbook/files/epub3/
 
 However, note that eInk readers are, in my experience, quite inferior
 for technical reading. Anything that involves tables and color images
 is likely to make your head hurt :) OTOH, EPU is more than just for
 eInk readers. Tablets are OK :)
Hm... sounds like we need a plan. Perhaps I'll create a bug in Bugzilla
and we move the discussion there ...

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] [Gimp-web] Proposed gimp tutorial

2013-06-27 Thread Roman Joost
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 09:53:53AM -0500, Pat David wrote:
  the best way to go with this is to become a maintainer of your content.
 
 This is actually the step I am at currently while trying to contribute
 at least some time in updating and creating new tutorial content.
 
 Stephen, I'll have some free time in a week or two if you want to send
 me the .odt files to have a look?  I might be able to help you get
 started as well...  (or at least caught up to my rather limited
 insight so far).
Thanks Pat for helping out!!

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Proposed gimp tutorial

2013-06-25 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Stephen,

 Take a look at the attached documents and scripts. Let me know if this idea
 is something that sounds interesting. The *.odt format files are open
 office writer format.
the best way to go with this is to become a maintainer of your content.
That means, you'll need to learn how to provide your tutorials as:

* patches for the gimp-web module
 (https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp-web) to add your tutorials to
 the current website
* update them if necessary
* provide them in a format compatible with gimp-web

At the moment a lot of people on the project only have limited spare.
That means, that a small group needs to maintain a lot of resources. If
you can learn and start maintain your content in a compatible way with
our current infrastructure, it'll be very helpful.

That'll also put you in the position to move the documentation forward -
perhaps towards a way that makes it easier for new contributors to join?

I hope that summary helps.

Kind Regards,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] CI offline

2013-04-11 Thread Roman Joost
Hi,

I've seen your ping on IRC. Cheers for your interest :)

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 08:47:54PM +0200, scl wrote:
 On 11.04.13 at 06:14 AM Roman Joost wrote:
 just let you know that the manual is not updated every night (perhaps
 some of you already noticed). I moved jobs and I hope I could find a new
 CI server. I was hoping to have this sorted far quicker, but well ...
 
 Hi Roman,
 
 what kind of CI server do you mean and how do we access it?
Oooh sorry for being ambiguous. I always had gimp-help-2 built on a
Jenkins and push the generated HTML nightly to docs.gimp.org.

I've currently also got some positive feedback from the Fedora
Infrastructure project:


http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2013-April/012746.html

Perhaps I'll coordinate with them first :)

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] CI offline

2013-04-11 Thread Roman Joost
Dear Liam,

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 12:30:01AM -0400, Liam R E Quin wrote:
 On Thu, 2013-04-11 at 14:14 +1000, Roman Joost wrote:
  Hi guys,
  
  just let you know that the manual is not updated every night (perhaps
  some of you already noticed). I moved jobs and I hope I could find a new
  CI server. I was hoping to have this sorted far quicker, but well ...
 
 What sort of server do you need? What colour socks are you wearing? What
 monthly bandwidth roughly? Shoes? Any other requirements?
Basically a Jenkins instance. Black. Enough to get the built HTML over
to cube.gtk.org. Yes - winter is coming. Perhaps in the future an
automated release, based on a tag.

 I currently host the gui wiki and could probably add to it.
 www.fromoldbooks.org is no longer pagerank 8 so there's some spare
 bandwidth, as long as I can keep paying the monthly fees :D
Thanks a lot for this offer. Very appreciated. I've send an e-mail to
Fedora Infrastructure and got positive feedback too.

I'll take their offer first and let you guys know.

Thanks a lot Liam!!
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Links to other languages

2012-12-04 Thread Roman Joost
Hi Ulf,

I've included your patch and merged the changes with master. I also
added a configure option ('--enable-languageMenu') to build the HTML
with a language selector. The option is off by default.

Thanks a lot for your feedback and help.

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] what to do with the orphaned images?

2012-12-03 Thread Roman Joost
Hi Marco,

On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 04:15:27PM +0100, Marco Ciampa wrote:
 $make check-images-en
 [SRC] src/preface/authors.xml
 *** Checking image references ... 
 parsing XML files ... 
 found 1578 references in 634 files
 
 searching images in 'images/C' ...
 found 1599 image files
 
 0 broken image references
 21 orphaned image files:
IMHO they should be deleted.

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[Gimp-docs] Drop HTML creation of untranslated languages

2012-09-20 Thread Roman Joost
Hi,

I'm currently in the process of adding support for:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168256
Help pages should have links to corresponding pages in other
languages

which brought me to our damned lies page. I think we should drop
creating HTML for language codes which currently don't provide any
translation. (Remove the language codes from the ALL_LINGUAS option in
configure.ac)

Perhaps a more prominent link on our homepage to the damned lies page
will help getting new translators, but currently as I see it, we can
savely drop building HTML for:

* Catalan
* Danish
* Croatian
* Finnish
* Lithuanian
* Polish

Any objections? With that I'll update the links to the work in progress.

Cheers,
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Re: [Gimp-docs] Figures for each language on docs.gimp.org

2012-07-23 Thread Roman Joost
Hi Ulf,

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 08:20:47PM +0200, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:
 On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 08:36:04PM +1000, Roman Joost wrote:
 (Tip: make -k [or --keep-going] validate-all may be better, this
 will continue even if validating one language fails.)
Cheers for that!

  make html
  
  for i in `find ./html -name 'images' -type l`; do ln -sf -T 
  ../images/$(basename $(dirname $i)) $i; done
 
 I don't see what you want to achieve with this command, but I'm quite
 sure it will not work as expected - local or remote.
 
 (If you really need something like this, we should better add a new
 'make' target.)

Trashed it.

 I don't use rsync (so maybe I'm wrong), but IMHO you can use
 
   rsync -avzr -e ssh \
   --relative \
   --delete   \
   images xml/*/images html \
   cube:/htdocs/2.8/
 
[...]
 ... if you create an alias for every language
 
 http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/LANG/ = htdocs/2.8/html/LANG
 
 it should work[*].
It does. Thanks a lot!

Now docs.gimp.org should show NIGHTLIES again with all figures.

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Re: [Gimp-docs] Figures for each language on docs.gimp.org

2012-07-20 Thread Roman Joost
Hi Ulf,

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 06:27:55PM +0200, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 08:02:11PM +1000, Roman Joost wrote:
  E.g. 
  http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/de/gimp-concepts-main-windows.html#gimp-concepts-toolbox
  
  uses images/using/toolbox-description.png for the toolbox figure, but if
  I check under images/de/using, there is no such file. Perhaps should it
  use the one located under 'C'?
  
  What build step may I have missed?
 
 How are the docs installed on the server?

Sorry for leaving out that much information ;)

Build steps are:

make clean

./autogen.sh --without-gimp

make validate-all

make html

for i in `find ./html -name 'images' -type l`; do ln -sf -T 
../images/$(basename $(dirname $i)) $i; done

for i in html/ images xml; do\
  rsync -avzr -e ssh $i cube:/htdocs/2.8/;
done

In the second last step, I'm repointing the the image links to one level
above the HTML directory. That's because the 2.8 directory holds the
whole structure and sub-directories:

/2.8/html/...
/2.8/images/...
/2.8/xml/...

I'm now thinking that this steps stuffs the figures up, but I can't
really find that is is all correctly wired before I run the step.

Cheers,
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[Gimp-docs] Figures for each language on docs.gimp.org

2012-07-19 Thread Roman Joost
Hi!

I'm currently having a few problems getting the figures right on
docs.gimp.org. One problem I'm having is, that it seems that images are
missing. Perhaps the files are not missing, but in the web of symbolic
links gone missing.

E.g. 
http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/de/gimp-concepts-main-windows.html#gimp-concepts-toolbox

uses images/using/toolbox-description.png for the toolbox figure, but if
I check under images/de/using, there is no such file. Perhaps should it
use the one located under 'C'?

What build step may I have missed?

Cheers,
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[Gimp-docs] Can't get a stable build

2012-06-23 Thread Roman Joost
Hi,

I've spend now quite some time on this and can't really reproduce what's
wrong, because it seems to happen quite arbitrary. What I get is:

[PO]  po/ko/using.po
po/ko/using.po:2339: `msgid' and `msgstr' entries do not both begin with 
'\n'
po/ko/using.po:2442: `msgid' and `msgstr' entries do not both begin with 
'\n'
po/ko/using.po:3278: `msgid' and `msgstr' entries do not both begin with 
'\n'
/usr/bin/msgfmt: found 3 fatal errors
449 translated messages, 311 fuzzy translations, 314 untranslated
messages.
make: *** [po/ko/using.po] Error 70
make: *** Deleting file `po/ko/using.po'

If I ran the build again, this error comes up with a po file in a
different language. I wonder if it is a version problem of automake,
i18ntools (e.g. msgfmt) or perhaps our customized version of xml2po.

The whole log can be found here:

http://build.node.mooball.net:8080/job/gimp-help/142/console

in case that helps.

Any pointers appreciated.

Cheers,
-- 
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: romanof...@gimp.org


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[Gimp-docs] ANNOUNCE: Gimp User Manual 2.8.0 released

2012-06-03 Thread Roman Joost
Hi!

A new version of the user manual for GIMP 2.8.0 is released!

You can find the releases on our FTP server:

ftp://ftp.gimp.org/pub/gimp/help/gimp-help-2.8.0.tar.bz2
(md5: d6e07a569fe4b3bb11aaf5630da2693b)


Users should wait until this release has been packaged in a pre-compiled
form for their platform. Find more information about our goals and how
you can help at http://docs.gimp.org.

At the point in time, we provide a nightly updated HTML version of the
user manual and PDFs of the quick reference. These show our current work
in progress.

We also include translations in this release, which are not complete. We
welcome everyone who can help completing translations.

Any enquiries, contributions and questions can be discussed on our
mailing list. You'll find a quick overview on how to help us on our
project page:

http://docs.gimp.org/help.html

Thanks to everyone who contributed!

Happy GIMPing!
-- 
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: romanof...@gimp.org


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Re: [Gimp-docs] make distcheck

2012-06-03 Thread Roman Joost
Hi Ulf,

On Sat, Jun 02, 2012 at 08:56:38PM +0200, Ulf-D. Ehlert wrote:
 I added missing po files and fixed a small bug in
 quickreference/Makefile.am, now 'make distcheck' succeeds.
 
Thank you so much for this.

I've created a 2.8.0 release and updated the web site.

Your changes seem to work well!

http://build.node.mooball.net:8080/job/gimp-help-other-formats/15/console

 'make validate-xx' still failes for a few languages xx; I will check
 this later.
I can put this into Jenkins too if you want. That way we know if
something is b0rked, or the distribution got a new set of autotools :)

Cheers,
-- 
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: romanof...@gimp.org


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Re: [Gimp-docs] Pimp my GIMP

2012-05-29 Thread Roman Joost
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 04:42:51PM +0200, Michael Schumacher wrote:
  Von: Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com
 
  On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Roman Joost wrote:
   There is currently a proposal to change the heading of the 'Pimp my
   GIMP' section to something less controversal, as it may put off people
   with it's political incorrectness (pimp).
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp_My_Ride is probably the insiration for the 
 title.
Yes I think so too.

 Interestingly, the Wikipedia article lists no controversies about
 their use of that title (only legal threats by Viacom against other
 businesses using the Pimp my... slogan).
 
 Just to make sure, this isn't an attempt by someone who was involved in a 
 GIMP name discussion to gather some leverage through the back door?
Nope. A good friend - Jan Smith - which made that suggestion to me. I
think it's a valid point and should be discussed.

Cheers,
-- 
Roman Joost
www: http://www.romanofski.de
email: romanof...@gimp.org


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