[Gimp-gui] Announcement: mailing list archives available at mail-archive and Gmane

2016-04-05 Thread Sven Claussner

Hi,

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Greetings

Sven


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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-03-23 Thread Sven Claussner


Hi,

I'm also for renaming the current 'Default' to 'System' to point out
that this theme aims for integration into the system's look.

For theming I'm also for obeying Jimmacs and other designers' advices.
They deal with such topics all day which is much more than we devs do,
so they are more experienced. Furthermore Jimmac was involved in the
icon design.

My personal favorite is the Dark theme with the light symbolic icon
theme. Many well-known graphics application nowadays have a dark UI,
so it can be considered a standard. It's unobtrusive and not
distracting.

Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links:

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/
http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/

I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want
to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX.
Perhaps we find a way for it.

Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work.

Sven

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Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

2016-01-24 Thread Sven Claussner

Hi Jehan,

On  22.1.2016 at 3:30 PM Jehan wrote:


On 2016-01-22 13:25, Sven Claussner wrote:

- the theme should have a neutral color to not distort the image's
color perception.


What is a "neutral" color? I do not know such a concept.


see Tobias' answer, simply said a variant of gray.


- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


So should the whitest theme be even whitest? ("pure white" #FF even?)


Elle's e-mail from 23.01.2016, 5:29 PM describes it best.
As Elle points out, the padding color is the most important piece for
adjustments here. We could try out Elle's example colors or perhaps
check with one/some of the industry standard ICC profiles from
http://www.colormanagement.org/index_en.html if they held useful
information for us.



I think we should involve the users to decide over it and run a user
test/evaluation like Peter Sikking did some years ago for the tools
(it's in the GUI wiki). Then we knew for sure and could meet the goals
I've outlined in the spec (http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Specs:UI_Theme).


If you are in LGM, we would welcome any kind of usability session where
we would gather users to test GIMP on various topics.


I'll not be at LGM this year. But the idea of involving the users
to test GIMP on various topics is a good one!
Let's find other ways of doing it. For instance Google Hangouts like
the Metapolator people practice it for meetings could be a choice.
The hangout sessions could be recorded and archived for later use
(and BTW it's a nice way to meet each other one more time w/o long
distance constraints). Of course, Google is not everything, and I'm
open to alternatives.




BTW: Krita has 8 themes with more or less small differences, PS CS 6
has 4 themes.


As a side note, this is not a competition. We should support what we
think is best, whatever other software are doing.


I agree with you. It was meant as a side note and food for thought how
others deal with this topic.



[...] I am fairly confident we can now
have a few themes while keeping minimum maintainability.


I guess you mean minimum work resp. maximum maintainability, don't you?



I do hope that current contributors will stay for the long run! :-)


+1



- 1 system theme for proper system integration,


What is a system theme? Do you mean the default theme?


No, a theme that closely resembles the operating systems appearance.
See the notice on constraints in my spec draft.



- optionally 1 theme for roundtrip work with other FOSS graphics tools
(Blender, Darktable, Krita)


I don't understand what is a "theme for roundtrip work"? How could a
*theme* be helpful to work with other software?


For visual consistency, which is also a reason why designers of
operating systems, GNOME etc. write Human Interface Guidelines.
If one often switches between e.g. Blender and GIMP, then s/he should
not feel distracted by the programs' different looks and feels.
I was inspired by Krita's Blender theme.
To be honest we can only achieve an approximation here as every
program has its own styles as I found out in the meantime.



- optionally the current 2.8 theme. Some people might like it
because they are used to it. We don't need yet another save-export-like
discussion.


We will keep the current theme at the very least for development
version, if not for the release, because it is basically a nearly "raw"
theme. So developers will always need it to differentiate GTK+ bugs from
theme bugs.


+1



We could provide a link collection to other good themes together with
a tutorial on how to install them or later extend the plug-in registry
to hold themes and art resources (brushes, patterns etc.).


Having a good extension platform is one of my project for the close
future, but that's a very different topic. :-)


Fine! Pat also mentioned something on the gimp-web list. Let's collect
our thoughts and then see what could be done. But perhaps getting the
registry running again and polishing some other w.i.p. stuff is more
urgent now.



I hope to find time to move my spec to the GUI wiki in the next days.


Cool.


Done. See http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/UI_Theme_workgroup


Greetings

Sven


Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

2016-01-22 Thread Sven Claussner

Hi,

On  21.1.2016 at 10:44 PM Jehan wrote:

The new themes are now sharing most of their code, but the color
schemes, which makes them very maintainable and it makes me confident to
have many variants of the colors if neded. I would not even mind having
all 5 of them, especially since it looks like every variant may have
someone's preference? All tastes are in nature, that's the saying, right?

For reminder, here are side by side screenshots of all 5 variants
currently being WIP by Ben (alias Draekko):
https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes


Draekko and Klaus did a great work.
In IRC we had a discussion a few days ago. IIRC the results were
- the theme should have a neutral color to not distort the image's
color perception.
- Pippin recommended 'the darker the better', because it supports the
image's proper color perception best.
- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


I'm thinking, maybe the lightest theme should be even lighter?
Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark"
theme.

I personally find the Dark-Side-of-GIMP theme a bit too dark and would
prefer just 'Dark', but that might be a single person's matter of taste.
I think we should involve the users to decide over it and run a user
test/evaluation like Peter Sikking did some years ago for the tools
(it's in the GUI wiki). Then we knew for sure and could meet the goals
I've outlined in the spec (http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Specs:UI_Theme).


Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?
BTW: Krita has 8 themes with more or less small differences, PS CS 6 has 
4 themes.


We should make a compromise between trying to serve everybody's needs
(which will fail by nature) and maintainability. At the end somebody
will need to care for the themes in the codebase and this could easily
be us.
My proposal is:
- 1 dark theme for proper color perception and eye-saving work for hours,
- 1 white theme for proper color perception on prints,
- 1 system theme for proper system integration,
- optionally 1 theme for roundtrip work with other FOSS graphics tools
(Blender, Darktable, Krita)
- optionally the current 2.8 theme. Some people might like it
because they are used to it. We don't need yet another save-export-like
discussion.

We could provide a link collection to other good themes together with
a tutorial on how to install them or later extend the plug-in registry
to hold themes and art resources (brushes, patterns etc.).

For OS X 10.10+ system integration I plan to update my theme and
perhaps use the symbolic set already for 2.8. if it matches better
the OS X look and feel.

Another point is the size of the theme. Nowadays we have HiDPI monitors
and even the default size theme is hard to read. We should drop any
small themes and replace them by big themes for HiDPI monitors. The
icons could be vector icons or be rendered during the build process.


Also there are still a lot of bugs here and there. It would be awesome
if people could test them and report bugs.

Indeed, see my notes on user testing above.

I hope to find time to move my spec to the GUI wiki in the next days.

Greetings

Sven