Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/26/2016 04:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Elle Stone wrote:


It would be nice if there were a way to set up, keep, and quickly choose
from a set of user-established canvas padding colors, independent of
choosing a theme or a set of icons (and hopefully someone will tell me this
is already possible by doing XYZ . . . ).


You mean, like View -> Padding Color -> Light/Dark Check Color?

Alex


I didn't know about that particular menu entry, so thanks! But the 
problem is that when I set a custom canvas padding color, and then 
change to another canvas padding color, the first color is not 
remembered any where in the UI, as far as I can tell.


It would be easy enough to dial in colors that are R=G=B. But the 
desktop isn't color-managed. Also my monitor is profiled but not 
calibrated to have the gray axis be R=G=B.


So to set a truly neutral canvas color, first I make the color I want in 
GIMP in a regular RGB working space, and then convert that color to my 
monitor profile, and then eyedropper the RGB values, and then dial these 
values in as the custom canvas color. This is a lot of steps to go 
through to change the canvas padding color.


It would be nice if there were a way to have the little squares of color 
in the "Custom padding color" remember the last twelve colors that were 
dialed in as Custom padding colors. But currently those last twelve 
colors are the last twelve colors picked using the color picker.


A dialogue such as Gez suggested would also work, that is somewhere on 
the Status bar a place to select from the last few custom canvas padding 
colors.


Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Gez]

El mar, 26-01-2016 a las 15:17 -0500, Elle Stone escribió:
> 
> As Gez, Sven, and myself have pointed out, the color of the
> immediate 
> image surround matters a great deal because it influences the
> appearance 
> of the image. What actually constitutes the image surround depends
> on 
> the user's particular "at the moment" setup: It might be the desktop 
> itself in MWM with a shrink-wrapped image, or the canvas padding, or
> the 
> theme itself if the image takes up enough of the screen.

Well, in the case of shrink-wrapped floating windows on a desktop
background this discussion becomes moot as you can't predict what kind
of background the user chose.
Somebody knowing what she's doing would have a neutral background with
a suitable luminosity for her needs, but others could have a colorful
picture with flowers and kitten :-)

Maximized floating windows are likely to show some padding color when
they're zoomed out to fit.

> 
> The "paper white" values that I gave for various printer profiles
> only 
> had the purposes of establishing that "paper white" is not the same
> as 
> 100% monitor white and for suggesting the maximum Lightness for even
> the 
> Lightest theme shouldn't be 100% monitor white, even if the goal is 
> emulating "paper white". The main effect of a theme with large
> amounts 
> of 100% monitor white would be eyestrain.

Ah, ok. Agreed then.
Even while any user serious about printing is likely to use a white
level as close as possible to her common paper stock white, it's still
a moving target.
But in my opinion the strongest argument against a too bright theme is
eyestrain.

> 
> It seems to me that the currently proposed five themes 
> (https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes) have a nice range of 
> tonality, from the very dark "Dark Side of GIMP" to the much lighter 
> "Light" theme, and it would be nice if GIMP provided all five themes
> by 
> default.
> 
> Changing themes in Preferences is easy to do. Changing icons is also 
> easy to do.
> 
> Changing the canvas padding color -arguably more important than the 
> theme color - isn't so easy to do. Well, changing the color isn't 
> difficult, though it requires several mouse clicks to accomplish.
> But 
> finding a previously used color isn't easy - the previously used
> colors 
> keep disappearing and the little squares of remembered colors are
> pretty 
> useless because they aren't color-managed.
> 
> It would be nice if there were a way to set up, keep, and quickly
> choose 
> from a set of user-established canvas padding colors, independent of 
> choosing a theme or a set of icons (and hopefully someone will tell
> me 
> this is already possible by doing XYZ . . . ).

Agreed. Personally I'd love to have a little switcher below in the
status bar, by the quickmask and zoom/units selectors.
A simple square would suffice. You click on it and it cycles between
black/middle gray/white (and maybe the background checkers colors too?
idk).

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/24/2016 12:29 PM, Sven Claussner wrote:



- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


So should the whitest theme be even whitest? ("pure white" #FF even?)


Elle's e-mail from 23.01.2016, 5:29 PM describes it best.
As Elle points out, the padding color is the most important piece for
adjustments here. We could try out Elle's example colors or perhaps
check with one/some of the industry standard ICC profiles from
http://www.colormanagement.org/index_en.html if they held useful
information for us.


The "printer-paper" profiles that I checked are for making photographic 
prints. As far as I know there is no industry standard for this type of 
profile, rather printing establishments and individuals either make 
their own custom profiles or else they use profiles supplied by the 
company that makes the printer or the paper.


The colord and basICColor print profiles overlap the profiles from 
colormanagement.org. These profiles (and most? all? of the output device 
profiles from colormanagement.org) are CMYK profiles, which are relevant 
for graphic design and mass printing in newspapers and magazines, but so 
much not for photographic prints or digital prints for display on the web.


The LAB values for the white points for the colord and basICColor CMYK 
profiles range from 80 to 96. The lower values are for newsprint 
profiles, which have a low white point and also very high black points 
(and an exceedingly small color gamut).


LAB L=80 corresponds to sRGB R=G=B=145, HTML #919191
LAB L=85 corresponds to sRGB R=G=B=168, HTML #a8a8a8

I will hazard a guess that people using GIMP for editing images for 
eventual CMYK output would prefer medium or light themes.


Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/22/2016 09:30 AM, Jehan wrote:

On 2016-01-22 13:25, Sven Claussner wrote:



- Pippin recommended 'the darker the better', because it supports the
image's proper color perception best.


As Pippin notes, the background colors surrounding an image on a monitor 
makes a big difference in how the image actually looks. Dark surrounds 
make the image look brighter and more saturated (and even more so if the 
room lighting is relatively dark). The same image might look a bit 
disappointing when displayed with a light surround (and even more so if 
the room lighting is bright).


Matching the theme to the intended "display surround" allows the user to 
somewhat control during editing what the image will look like as 
eventually diplayed:


 * If the user intends to display the final image on the web against a 
dark background, it might be better to use a dark theme with a dark 
canvas padding color.


 * If the user intends to display the final image as a paper print with 
a white mat or on the web against a light background, it might be better 
to use a light theme with a light canvas padding color.


What the image looks like also depends on the relative size of the image 
against the intended background. For example:


  * In multiple window mode with a medium-gray "desktop", an image 
displayed with a relatively small amount of light canvas padding 
somewhat emulates a white mat around an image displayed on a gray wall.


  * In single window mode, an image surrounded by a relatively large 
amount of light canvas padding might be lost in the general brightness, 
and in this case a medium or dark theme/canvas might be better, even if 
the image is intended for eventual display against a light surround.


Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/22/2016 09:30 AM, Jehan wrote:

On 2016-01-22 13:25, Sven Claussner wrote:



- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


Monitor "pure white" has the absolute colorimetric LAB L value L=100 
(#FF). "Print paper white" has an absolute colorimetric white that's 
less than L=100. So it might help to have some reference points for 
print paper white.


For ten moderate to high quality "printer/paper combination" profiles 
downloaded from the internet, ArgyllCMS's xicclu showed "print paper 
white" values ranging from L=90 to L=98. Most of the values were around 
91 to 93. I'm a bit suspicious of the higher values (fluorescent 
whiteners?), but I'm not an expert on print paper.


If one goal for a Light theme is to emulate "print paper white", then 
expressed as sRGB and HTML colors, the basic color of a Light theme 
might be somewhere in the range of:


LAB L=90, sRGB R=G=B=226, HTML #e2e2e2
LAB L=91, sRGB R=G=B=229, HTML #e5e5e5
LAB L=93, sRGB R=G=B=235, HTML #ebebeb
LAB L=95, sRGB R=G=B=241, HTML #f1f1f1
LAB L=97, sRGB R=G=B=246, HTML #f6f6f6
LAB L=98, sRGB R=G=B=249, HTML #f9f9f9

In an actual paper print mounted on a wall, the print might not have any 
"paper white" highlights. If the mat around the image is white, I will 
guess that "mat white" is less bright than high quality printer paper 
white. So if the goal for a Light theme is to emulate what a paper print 
might look when displayed with a white mat, a Light theme might aim for 
L=90.




So should the whitest theme be even whitest? ("pure white" #FF even?)


Even the lightest theme probably should be less than "monitor white", to 
allow the image highlights to be at least a little brighter than the 
theme colors and to avoid eyestrain from staring at monitor white for 
hours at a time. Maybe aim for around L=93-95 for the lightest theme?


Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Jehan]

Hi,

On 2016-01-22 13:25, Sven Claussner wrote:

Hi,

On  21.1.2016 at 10:44 PM Jehan wrote:

The new themes are now sharing most of their code, but the color
schemes, which makes them very maintainable and it makes me confident 
to
have many variants of the colors if neded. I would not even mind 
having

all 5 of them, especially since it looks like every variant may have
someone's preference? All tastes are in nature, that's the saying, 
right?


For reminder, here are side by side screenshots of all 5 variants
currently being WIP by Ben (alias Draekko):
https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes


Draekko and Klaus did a great work.
In IRC we had a discussion a few days ago. IIRC the results were
- the theme should have a neutral color to not distort the image's
color perception.


What is a "neutral" color? I do not know such a concept.


- Pippin recommended 'the darker the better', because it supports the
image's proper color perception best.
- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


So should the whitest theme be even whitest? ("pure white" #FF 
even?)



I'm thinking, maybe the lightest theme should be even lighter?
Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark"
theme.

I personally find the Dark-Side-of-GIMP theme a bit too dark and would
prefer just 'Dark', but that might be a single person's matter of 
taste.


I am the same (though I kind of got used to it after trying it out for a 
bit). But it seems some people like the themes very dark. Draekko was 
saying the Dark Side of GIMP was based on what he uses himself. And you 
said above "the darker the better", so maybe even Pippin would use the 
Dark Side too?



I think we should involve the users to decide over it and run a user
test/evaluation like Peter Sikking did some years ago for the tools
(it's in the GUI wiki). Then we knew for sure and could meet the goals
I've outlined in the spec (http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Specs:UI_Theme).


If you are in LGM, we would welcome any kind of usability session where 
we would gather users to test GIMP on various topics.



Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?

BTW: Krita has 8 themes with more or less small differences, PS CS 6
has 4 themes.


As a side note, this is not a competition. We should support what we 
think is best, whatever other software are doing. So this is not that 
relevant information to me.



We should make a compromise between trying to serve everybody's needs
(which will fail by nature) and maintainability. At the end somebody
will need to care for the themes in the codebase and this could easily
be us.


Of course. As I said, now themes share most of their code. Only 
difference are the color schemes. That's still a lot of work, but a lot 
less than completely separated code. So I am fairly confident we can now 
have a few themes while keeping minimum maintainability.


I do hope that current contributors will stay for the long run! :-)


My proposal is:
- 1 dark theme for proper color perception and eye-saving work for 
hours,


But which one? As you said first, it seems that the official stand is 
"the darker the better", but as you said second, and which I agree too 
is that the dark side is actually too dark for your taste. So which 
should we choose?



- 1 white theme for proper color perception on prints,


Again which one?


- 1 system theme for proper system integration,


What is a system theme? Do you mean the default theme?


- optionally 1 theme for roundtrip work with other FOSS graphics tools
(Blender, Darktable, Krita)


I don't understand what is a "theme for roundtrip work"? How could a 
*theme* be helpful to work with other software?



- optionally the current 2.8 theme. Some people might like it
because they are used to it. We don't need yet another save-export-like
discussion.


We will keep the current theme at the very least for development 
version, if not for the release, because it is basically a nearly "raw" 
theme. So developers will always need it to differentiate GTK+ bugs from 
theme bugs.



We could provide a link collection to other good themes together with
a tutorial on how to install them or later extend the plug-in registry
to hold themes and art resources (brushes, patterns etc.).


Having a good extension platform is one of my project for the close 
future, but that's a very different topic. :-)
It would be obviously very ideal to have a broad user-create theme 
choice, and easy way to get them.



For OS X 10.10+ system integration I plan to update my theme and
perhaps use the symbolic set already for 2.8. if it matches better
the OS X look and feel.

Another point is the size of the theme. Nowadays we have HiDPI monitors
and even the default size theme is hard to read. We should drop any
small themes and replace them by big themes for HiDPI monitors. The
icons could be vector icons or be rendered during the build process.


No. Duplicating 

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Sven Claussner]

Hi,

On  21.1.2016 at 10:44 PM Jehan wrote:

The new themes are now sharing most of their code, but the color
schemes, which makes them very maintainable and it makes me confident to
have many variants of the colors if neded. I would not even mind having
all 5 of them, especially since it looks like every variant may have
someone's preference? All tastes are in nature, that's the saying, right?

For reminder, here are side by side screenshots of all 5 variants
currently being WIP by Ben (alias Draekko):
https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes


Draekko and Klaus did a great work.
In IRC we had a discussion a few days ago. IIRC the results were
- the theme should have a neutral color to not distort the image's
color perception.
- Pippin recommended 'the darker the better', because it supports the
image's proper color perception best.
- A pure white theme would reflect the proper appearance of the image
printed on white paper.


I'm thinking, maybe the lightest theme should be even lighter?
Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark"
theme.

I personally find the Dark-Side-of-GIMP theme a bit too dark and would
prefer just 'Dark', but that might be a single person's matter of taste.
I think we should involve the users to decide over it and run a user
test/evaluation like Peter Sikking did some years ago for the tools
(it's in the GUI wiki). Then we knew for sure and could meet the goals
I've outlined in the spec (http://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Specs:UI_Theme).


Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?
BTW: Krita has 8 themes with more or less small differences, PS CS 6 has 
4 themes.


We should make a compromise between trying to serve everybody's needs
(which will fail by nature) and maintainability. At the end somebody
will need to care for the themes in the codebase and this could easily
be us.
My proposal is:
- 1 dark theme for proper color perception and eye-saving work for hours,
- 1 white theme for proper color perception on prints,
- 1 system theme for proper system integration,
- optionally 1 theme for roundtrip work with other FOSS graphics tools
(Blender, Darktable, Krita)
- optionally the current 2.8 theme. Some people might like it
because they are used to it. We don't need yet another save-export-like
discussion.

We could provide a link collection to other good themes together with
a tutorial on how to install them or later extend the plug-in registry
to hold themes and art resources (brushes, patterns etc.).

For OS X 10.10+ system integration I plan to update my theme and
perhaps use the symbolic set already for 2.8. if it matches better
the OS X look and feel.

Another point is the size of the theme. Nowadays we have HiDPI monitors
and even the default size theme is hard to read. We should drop any
small themes and replace them by big themes for HiDPI monitors. The
icons could be vector icons or be rendered during the build process.


Also there are still a lot of bugs here and there. It would be awesome
if people could test them and report bugs.

Indeed, see my notes on user testing above.

I hope to find time to move my spec to the GUI wiki in the next days.

Greetings

Sven

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/21/2016 04:44 PM, Jehan wrote:

Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark"
theme.


I've been using the Sea of Grey theme and I'm trying out the "Light side 
of GIMP" theme. For my own preferences in themes, I could definitely 
also see using the "Dark" theme (but not the darker "Dark side of GIMP" 
theme or the extra light "Light" theme).



Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?


All five sounds good! Preferences and sensitivities to contrast vary a lot.

Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Kevin Payne]

Why do these themes use the small icons for the toolbox? Is that the new 
Default size?

Kevin


From: gimp-gui-list <gimp-gui-list-boun...@gnome.org> on behalf of Jehan 
<je...@girinstud.io>
Sent: 21 January 2016 21:44
To: draekko.software
Cc: gimp-gui-list
Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

Hey everyone!

The new themes are now sharing most of their code, but the color
schemes, which makes them very maintainable and it makes me confident to
have many variants of the colors if neded. I would not even mind having
all 5 of them, especially since it looks like every variant may have
someone's preference? All tastes are in nature, that's the saying,
right?

For reminder, here are side by side screenshots of all 5 variants
currently being WIP by Ben (alias Draekko):
https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes

I'm thinking, maybe the lightest theme should be even lighter?

Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark"
theme.
Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?

Also there are still a lot of bugs here and there. It would be awesome
if people could test them and report bugs.

Jehan

On 2015-12-29 12:30, draekko.software wrote:
> There was a recent call sent out for new and updated assets for the
> next version of GIMP (icons, themes mainly) and some of those have
> started rolling in, i've submitted several themes myself and so far
> one has made it in. I was asked to get the ball rolling on the
> subject, so here it goes :) Maybe for starters offer input on the
> current Dark Theme and if there might be interest in a new light &
> grey theme as well or any other suggestions for that matter. You can
> find the themes here:
>
>  Dark Theme
>  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759649 [1]
>
>  Grey Theme
>  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759663 [2]
>
>  Light Theme
>  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648 [3]
>
>  Alternate Light Theme (Lighter, more color contrast on some
> items/widgets)
>  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830 [4]
>
>  The links have screenshots, and 7z files with the theme asset (and
> the dark theme has patches for the gimp crew).
>
>  So far i've tested the Dark Theme on KDE(Ubuntu/Plasma), Unity
> (Ubuntu), Windows 8.1 (and wine on Linux), OSX (Maverick) to make sure
> it had a consistent feel across platforms. The only caveats so far
> were under KDE where i had to toggle off the option " Apply colors to
> non-Qt applications" because without that KDE overrides some GTK
> widget theme colors and icons. As a side note i am currently awaiting
> feedback on the Dark Theme under KDE before applying the KDE tweaks i
> made there to the other themes.
>
>  So guess have at it, let me and the GIMP crew know what you think.
>
>
>
> Links:
> --
> [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759649
> [2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759663
> [3] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648
> [4] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830
>
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> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list
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Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Jehan]

Hey everyone!

The new themes are now sharing most of their code, but the color 
schemes, which makes them very maintainable and it makes me confident to 
have many variants of the colors if neded. I would not even mind having 
all 5 of them, especially since it looks like every variant may have 
someone's preference? All tastes are in nature, that's the saying, 
right?


For reminder, here are side by side screenshots of all 5 variants 
currently being WIP by Ben (alias Draekko):

https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes

I'm thinking, maybe the lightest theme should be even lighter?

Personally I feel like I would likely use "Sea of Grey" or the "Dark" 
theme.

Should we push all 5 of them? Should we discard some?

Also there are still a lot of bugs here and there. It would be awesome 
if people could test them and report bugs.


Jehan

On 2015-12-29 12:30, draekko.software wrote:

There was a recent call sent out for new and updated assets for the
next version of GIMP (icons, themes mainly) and some of those have
started rolling in, i've submitted several themes myself and so far
one has made it in. I was asked to get the ball rolling on the
subject, so here it goes :) Maybe for starters offer input on the
current Dark Theme and if there might be interest in a new light &
grey theme as well or any other suggestions for that matter. You can
find the themes here:

 Dark Theme
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759649 [1]

 Grey Theme
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759663 [2]

 Light Theme
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648 [3]

 Alternate Light Theme (Lighter, more color contrast on some
items/widgets)
 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830 [4]

 The links have screenshots, and 7z files with the theme asset (and
the dark theme has patches for the gimp crew).

 So far i've tested the Dark Theme on KDE(Ubuntu/Plasma), Unity
(Ubuntu), Windows 8.1 (and wine on Linux), OSX (Maverick) to make sure
it had a consistent feel across platforms. The only caveats so far
were under KDE where i had to toggle off the option " Apply colors to
non-Qt applications" because without that KDE overrides some GTK
widget theme colors and icons. As a side note i am currently awaiting
feedback on the Dark Theme under KDE before applying the KDE tweaks i
made there to the other themes.

 So guess have at it, let me and the GIMP crew know what you think.



Links:
--
[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759649
[2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759663
[3] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648
[4] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830

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Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[john smith]

On 2 January 2016 at 14:48, staedtler-przyborski
 wrote:
> Am 02.01.2016 um 14:56 schrieb staedtler-przyborski:
>>
>>
>> I've seen on one of your screen-shots, that the n-point deformation tool
>> icon looks slightly different (handles are not so clearly visible) in
>> inversed-symbolic compared to symbolic. Is this true ? If yes, I can provide
>> a corrected one. Thanks
>
>
> Handle-transform (mixed that up n-point deformation) didn't work correctly
> on dark-themes
>
> corrected one is uploaded, only symbolic (no-inverted), see
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759673
>
> luckily latest build with dark-theme was published some minutes ago in in
> gimp-edge ppa, so I could test and verify corrected one by myself.
>
> Klaus Staedtler
>
>
>
> ___
> gimp-gui-list mailing list
> gimp-gui-list@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-gui-list

I just compiled using vagrant-gimp and tried the Dark-Side-Of-Gimp and
something is very off.
See attached for an image of the preferences and how you can't read anything.


John

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[staedtler-przyborski]

Am 02.01.2016 um 14:56 schrieb staedtler-przyborski:


I've seen on one of your screen-shots, that the n-point deformation 
tool icon looks slightly different (handles are not so clearly 
visible) in inversed-symbolic compared to symbolic. Is this true ? If 
yes, I can provide a corrected one. Thanks


Handle-transform (mixed that up n-point deformation) didn't work 
correctly on dark-themes


corrected one is uploaded, only symbolic (no-inverted), see

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759673

luckily latest build with dark-theme was published some minutes ago in 
in gimp-edge ppa, so I could test and verify corrected one by myself.


Klaus Staedtler

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Kevin Payne]

>>
>> I'm not sure how many themes and how many sets of icons are "too
>> many". But given the following:
>>
>> * many differently-sized devices are used for editing images
>> * the wide disparity in user personal preferences
>> * issues with eyesight and/or hand-eye coordination that might lead a
>> user to prefer the wider icon spacing and/or color icons
>>
>5 is my limit since i have to maintain them and test them on all variant
>OSes :) Its hard to make it work across everything and time consuming to
>keep it up. So far i've tested them on OSX (Maverick only so far),
>Windows (8.1 so far), Linux (KDE, Unity, Wine under Unity) to make sure
>they felt the same across the board. There's only so much that can be
>tweaked to keep that true.

>> it might be nice to include two sizes for icons - the original size
>> and the smaller size, and also keep the original color icons in both
>> sizes.
>>
>I think there are plans to switch eventually to svg icons which would
>render the point moot.
>
>Ben

And how do your themes look on high resolution displays? Given that there is 
increasing demand for larger icons I think you have to consider that you may 
have many more variants to support.

Kevin

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Ben]

On 01/01/2016 01:27 PM, scl wrote:


Hi,

nice to see that the long-time topic 'UI theme' is now making such a
progress!

I'm also impressed by Ben's screenshots!

Thank you.


To address users' different needs and preferences we could consider
offering variants of the same theme: dark (black or
anthrazite-coloured), silver grey, light (white or light gray).


I've got most of that covered eh :)

I once starte a wiki page for this topic and don't know for sure
about the current state. Is there yet anything to be done with respect
to this page?

Not sure first time i see it, i'm sure others in the know will comment 
eventually :)



Greetings and have a happy new year!

Back at you :)

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 01/01/2016 12:14 PM, Ben wrote:



Elle, Jehan, i've updated the themes to add the separators, fixed some
more KDE issues, reduced the focus padding on buttons as an expedient to
making the them smaller without having to redo anything (and changed
some of the pngs to harmonize all the themes), commented out the font
settings so people can choose as they wish to have or not, added version
numbers to the files so i can keep track of what people are using,
started a repo so i can track changes locally available here
https://github.com/Draekko-RAND/gimp-themes (which is where i'll keep
the screenshots from now on).


Ben, thank you! I tried modifying just the colors for some of the items 
in the "Lighter side of GIMP" theme. It's not as easy as I thought it 
would be!


I've been using the (original) "Lighter side" theme and find that in use 
I actually like the wider icon spacing for the monotone icons. For color 
icons, the closer spacing is compensated for by the color 
differentiation, but not so much for the monotone icons. And at least to 
me the wider spacing for the monotone icons seems more attractive to 
look at.


The new separators are very helpful. Even though I know where the 
toolbox dividers are, without the separators often it was difficult to 
find the place to resize the panels (something I do fairly often, 
depending on what I'm working on).


Your themes make GIMP look very nice, very professional. It seems to me 
that the monotone icons are a pretty important part of that look. For 
this same reason personally I'd prefer that sliders in the monotone 
themese also be monontone - it just plain looks nice, and aesthetics do 
count.


I'm not sure how many themes and how many sets of icons are "too many". 
But given the following:


* many differently-sized devices are used for editing images
* the wide disparity in user personal preferences
* issues with eyesight and/or hand-eye coordination that might lead a 
user to prefer the wider icon spacing and/or color icons


it might be nice to include two sizes for icons - the original size and 
the smaller size, and also keep the original color icons in both sizes.


Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Jehan]

Hi,

On 2015-12-31 00:07, Akkana Peck wrote:

Elle writes:

>On my system the "light side of GIMP" theme and the current default
>GIMP theme are very close in tonality, with the "light side of GIMP
>theme being a tad lighter. Here's a screenshot showing the two themes
>side by side:
>http://ninedegreesbelow.com/bug-reports/gimp29/light-side-vs-default-small.jpg

[ ... ]

>1. The "light side of GIMP" theme has a lot of darker tones in things
>like sliders, boxes for choosing parameters, the menu bar, and really
>just about everywhere. This makes for too little contrast between the
>sliders, boxes, etc and any contained text. It seems to me that a
>lighter shade of gray would make the text stand out better.


I should clarify that my comment about both light themes being too
dark and lacking contrast referred to the darker #bdbdbd color that
Elle mentions here, not the base #ee color. The darker color
predominates in the screenshots, including in areas where there's a
lot of text to read. Black against #bdbdbd is a lot less contrasty
and harder to read than what I currently see in GIMP 2.9 and earlier.

Jehan writes:

I agree. Also do we want the theme to get rid of colors? If I were to
decide, I'd say no. For sliders for instance, I quite prefer this 
blue|white

colors to the white|grey proposed.


I don't have strong feelings about the current blue/white sliders
vs. the grey/white ones in the "lighter side" theme, though I find
the 3D highlights in the "alternate light" sliders prettier and more
professional looking than the flat ones (just a personal prejudice,
I'll be fine using whatever GIMP ends up with).

However, I'd be sorry to see the colors in the Toolbox icons go. I
have a very hard time telling many of the icons apart already, even
with color cues, and without color it'll be a lot harder. I know
there are people who don't want color icons distracting them, but
I don't think I'll be able to use these monochrome Toolbox icons,
and that will probably drive me to a custom theme, and might drive
some users away from GIMP if it's not easy to find alternate themes.


Color icons won't go as long as I have a word to say. For me, the 
symbolic icons have always been considered as an "alternative", but I 
consider them as equal importance as the color ones.


Jehan


...Akkana
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Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Akkana Peck]

Elle writes:
> >On my system the "light side of GIMP" theme and the current default
> >GIMP theme are very close in tonality, with the "light side of GIMP
> >theme being a tad lighter. Here's a screenshot showing the two themes
> >side by side:
> >http://ninedegreesbelow.com/bug-reports/gimp29/light-side-vs-default-small.jpg
[ ... ]
> >1. The "light side of GIMP" theme has a lot of darker tones in things
> >like sliders, boxes for choosing parameters, the menu bar, and really
> >just about everywhere. This makes for too little contrast between the
> >sliders, boxes, etc and any contained text. It seems to me that a
> >lighter shade of gray would make the text stand out better.

I should clarify that my comment about both light themes being too
dark and lacking contrast referred to the darker #bdbdbd color that
Elle mentions here, not the base #ee color. The darker color
predominates in the screenshots, including in areas where there's a
lot of text to read. Black against #bdbdbd is a lot less contrasty
and harder to read than what I currently see in GIMP 2.9 and earlier.

Jehan writes:
> I agree. Also do we want the theme to get rid of colors? If I were to
> decide, I'd say no. For sliders for instance, I quite prefer this blue|white
> colors to the white|grey proposed.

I don't have strong feelings about the current blue/white sliders
vs. the grey/white ones in the "lighter side" theme, though I find
the 3D highlights in the "alternate light" sliders prettier and more
professional looking than the flat ones (just a personal prejudice,
I'll be fine using whatever GIMP ends up with).

However, I'd be sorry to see the colors in the Toolbox icons go. I
have a very hard time telling many of the icons apart already, even
with color cues, and without color it'll be a lot harder. I know
there are people who don't want color icons distracting them, but
I don't think I'll be able to use these monochrome Toolbox icons,
and that will probably drive me to a custom theme, and might drive
some users away from GIMP if it's not easy to find alternate themes.

...Akkana

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Jehan]

Hi,

On 2015-12-30 18:05, Elle Stone wrote:

On 12/29/2015 08:57 PM, Akkana Peck wrote:

Both the light themes seem quite dark and not very contrasty
(with black text and icons) compared to the GIMP I currently see,
which has a background color of #dcdad5 rather than the #bdbdbd
used in both of the light themes for most icons and menus;
except the menus in the alternate light theme, which are pretty
close to what I see now in GIMP.

I'd like to see a theme option (whether or not it's the default)
that has similar contrast to the current theme; the new themes will
be harder to read for at least some users.


On my system the "light side of GIMP" theme and the current default
GIMP theme are very close in tonality, with the "light side of GIMP
theme being a tad lighter. Here's a screenshot showing the two themes
side by side:
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/bug-reports/gimp29/light-side-vs-default-small.jpg

If I had to choose any of the new themes, it would be the "Light side
of GIMP" theme. By comparison, the current default theme looks a bit
outdated and the new theme is very pretty and modern-looking. But I
like the current theme better for three reasons:

1. The "light side of GIMP" theme has a lot of darker tones in things
like sliders, boxes for choosing parameters, the menu bar, and really
just about everywhere. This makes for too little contrast between the
sliders, boxes, etc and any contained text. It seems to me that a
lighter shade of gray would make the text stand out better.


I agree. Also do we want the theme to get rid of colors? If I were to 
decide, I'd say no. For sliders for instance, I quite prefer this 
blue|white colors to the white|grey proposed.



2. Also the new theme UIs for things like Gaussian blur, Curves, etc,
are always larger than the corresponding current default GIMP theme.
As screen real estate matters a great deal, I prefer the smaller UIs.


I agree. Draekko, is it because of the UI images which adds pixels here 
and there? If so, could these be made to the strict minimum, as a 
compromise between "beautiful" and "don't waste real estate space".



3. Also the new themes lack a good indication of where the grab areas
are for resizing windows and subwindows. Maybe users already know that
the subframes can be resized? And they know where to find the
(completely unindicated) grab handle for reproportioning the space
between the upper and lower subframes?


I agree. Draekko, could this be fixed?

Jehan

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 12/29/2015 08:57 PM, Akkana Peck wrote:

Both the light themes seem quite dark and not very contrasty
(with black text and icons) compared to the GIMP I currently see,
which has a background color of #dcdad5 rather than the #bdbdbd
used in both of the light themes for most icons and menus;
except the menus in the alternate light theme, which are pretty
close to what I see now in GIMP.

I'd like to see a theme option (whether or not it's the default)
that has similar contrast to the current theme; the new themes will
be harder to read for at least some users.


On my system the "light side of GIMP" theme and the current default GIMP 
theme are very close in tonality, with the "light side of GIMP theme 
being a tad lighter. Here's a screenshot showing the two themes side by 
side: 
http://ninedegreesbelow.com/bug-reports/gimp29/light-side-vs-default-small.jpg


If I had to choose any of the new themes, it would be the "Light side of 
GIMP" theme. By comparison, the current default theme looks a bit 
outdated and the new theme is very pretty and modern-looking. But I like 
the current theme better for three reasons:


1. The "light side of GIMP" theme has a lot of darker tones in things 
like sliders, boxes for choosing parameters, the menu bar, and really 
just about everywhere. This makes for too little contrast between the 
sliders, boxes, etc and any contained text. It seems to me that a 
lighter shade of gray would make the text stand out better.


2. Also the new theme UIs for things like Gaussian blur, Curves, etc, 
are always larger than the corresponding current default GIMP theme. As 
screen real estate matters a great deal, I prefer the smaller UIs.


3. Also the new themes lack a good indication of where the grab areas 
are for resizing windows and subwindows. Maybe users already know that 
the subframes can be resized? And they know where to find the 
(completely unindicated) grab handle for reproportioning the space 
between the upper and lower subframes?

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Jehan]

Hi,

On 2015-12-30 02:23, Elle Stone wrote:

On 12/29/2015 07:08 PM, Ben wrote:

On 12/29/2015 06:41 PM, Elle Stone wrote:

Would it be too much to offer five default themes,
more or less spaced as follows?

1. Very dark ("Dark side of GIMP" / compare to darktable's default 
theme)

2. Medium dark (compare to RawTherapee's default theme and Krita's
darkest theme, for people who like "dark but not that dark")
3. Middle gray ("Sea of Gray" / compare to Krita's Neutral theme)
4. Medium light ("Light side of GIMP"/ compare to Krita's two lighter
themes)
5. Very light (the Lighter theme from bug 759830, or depending on
feedback from people who prefer very light themes, maybe a touch
lighter?).



Elle you can see the original dark theme i had created for myself here
https://github.com/draekko/gimp-cc-themes you'll find it a tad lighter
than what i've submitted for GIMP



Maybe we could have that color scheme in between dark and middle gray?
That would give a bigger range theme tonality for most tastes with 
whats
already there. Tweaking the dark theme to that one could be done 
quickly

to have an alternative dark theme.


It seems to me that your original dark theme color scheme would make
an excellent "between dark and middle gray" theme.


As I switch themes, each time the toolbox gets one icon narrower, but
this doesn't start happening until I've switched themes several 
times,

not sure what triggers it.


Does it also happen with the Default & Small themes? I switch themes
(and reload them) a lot during testing and i haven't encountered that?
Could be something specific with icewm & gimp?


Upon further checking, I think this only happens when switching
between any of the new themes and the old Default & Small themes, but
not when switching between the new themes.


I just can't reproduce. Could you make a bug report?
And if you find reproducible steps, please include them.


Not sure if it matters, but some of the themes cause errors to be
printed to the terminal, for example:

config/themes/TheLightSideOfGimp/ui/null.png, borders don't fit within 
the image

config/themes/TheLightSideOfGimp/gtkrc:1688: Background image options
specified without filename
config/themes/TheLightSideOfGimp/gtkrc:1709: Overlay image options
specified without filename


Could you put down a comment on the corresponding bug reports that 
Draekko gave in his first email? This way, he won't forget to fix these.

Thanks again! :-)

Jehan


Elle

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Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Ben]

On 12/29/2015 08:57 PM, Akkana Peck wrote:

draekko.software writes:

Maybe for starters offer input on the current Dark Theme and if there might
be interest in a new light & grey theme as well or any other suggestions for
that matter. You can find the themes here:

[ ... ]

Light Theme
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648

Alternate Light Theme (Lighter, more color contrast on some items/widgets)
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830

Both the light themes seem quite dark and not very contrasty
(with black text and icons) compared to the GIMP I currently see,
which has a background color of #dcdad5 rather than the #bdbdbd
used in both of the light themes for most icons and menus;
except the menus in the alternate light theme, which are pretty
close to what I see now in GIMP.

I'd like to see a theme option (whether or not it's the default)
that has similar contrast to the current theme; the new themes will
be harder to read for at least some users.

Or am I only seeing #dcdad5 because I changed my theme at some
point?  I'm pretty sure I don't have a custom GIMP theme (themerc
says: include "/usr/local/gimp-git/share/gimp/2.0/themes/Default/gtkrc");
my .gtkrc-2.0 says gtk-theme-name="Raleigh", and I don't think I
set that explicitly, I think it was the default at some point.

Will these new GIMP themes override the user's GTK theme?

I'm using Linux with Openbox, no desktop.




Which version of Gimp are you using? The themes are for 2.9.x/2.10.x.

You shouldn't be seeing those colors, I only get something like that if 
i override it with a local .gtkrc-2.0 file for the user i log in with. 
But since you mentioned that, your locally defined theme probably 
overrides some or all of the Gimp's chosen theme color values. So short 
answer seems to be no from what i tested here. Take a look at the 
screenshots from the bug reports to see what you should be getting (i 
updated them this morning).

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Akkana Peck]

draekko.software writes:
> Maybe for starters offer input on the current Dark Theme and if there might
> be interest in a new light & grey theme as well or any other suggestions for
> that matter. You can find the themes here:
[ ... ]
> Light Theme
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648
> 
> Alternate Light Theme (Lighter, more color contrast on some items/widgets)
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830

Both the light themes seem quite dark and not very contrasty
(with black text and icons) compared to the GIMP I currently see,
which has a background color of #dcdad5 rather than the #bdbdbd
used in both of the light themes for most icons and menus;
except the menus in the alternate light theme, which are pretty
close to what I see now in GIMP.

I'd like to see a theme option (whether or not it's the default)
that has similar contrast to the current theme; the new themes will
be harder to read for at least some users.

Or am I only seeing #dcdad5 because I changed my theme at some
point?  I'm pretty sure I don't have a custom GIMP theme (themerc
says: include "/usr/local/gimp-git/share/gimp/2.0/themes/Default/gtkrc");
my .gtkrc-2.0 says gtk-theme-name="Raleigh", and I don't think I
set that explicitly, I think it was the default at some point.

Will these new GIMP themes override the user's GTK theme?

I'm using Linux with Openbox, no desktop.

...Akkana

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[john smith]

On 29 December 2015 at 06:30, draekko.software
 wrote:
> There was a recent call sent out for new and updated assets for the next
> version of GIMP (icons, themes mainly) and some of those have started
> rolling in, i've submitted several themes myself and so far one has made it
> in. I was asked to get the ball rolling on the subject, so here it goes :)
> Maybe for starters offer input on the current Dark Theme and if there might
> be interest in a new light & grey theme as well or any other suggestions for
> that matter. You can find the themes here:
>
> Dark Theme
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759649
>
> Grey Theme
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759663
>
> Light Theme
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759648
>
> Alternate Light Theme (Lighter, more color contrast on some items/widgets)
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759830
>
> The links have screenshots, and 7z files with the theme asset (and the dark
> theme has patches for the gimp crew).
>
> So far i've tested the Dark Theme on KDE(Ubuntu/Plasma), Unity (Ubuntu),
> Windows 8.1 (and wine on Linux), OSX (Maverick) to make sure it had a
> consistent feel across platforms. The only caveats so far were under KDE
> where i had to toggle off the option " Apply colors to non-Qt applications"
> because without that KDE overrides some GTK widget theme colors and icons.
> As a side note i am currently awaiting feedback on the Dark Theme under KDE
> before applying the KDE tweaks i made there to the other themes.
>
> So guess have at it, let me and the GIMP crew know what you think.
>
>
>
>
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>

I liked the Dark theme, although I currently use a combination of
Cillop-Midnite 
(https://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Cillop-Midnite?content=47100)
theme and the Icons from Gimp Icon Theme FFlat32 (Flamini style)
(http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Gimp+Icon+Theme+FFlat32+%28Flamini+style%29?content=169060)

However, what I would like to see as an alternative to the current
shipped themes is an implementation of this:
http://mindscapestudios.blogspot.ca/2014/08/gimp-interface-redesign-as-graphic.html

John

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Elle Stone]

On 12/29/2015 01:07 PM, Jehan wrote:

To add a little more depth to this all, these are the in-progress
versions of the new default themes for GIMP.
Well at least, there would be a light and a dark version. Now one
question is: do we want to release also intermediate greys, which seems
to be a common request?


Is this the kind of feedback you are looking for?

Please do include the Gray theme. Personally I don't like dark themes, 
to the point where if that's my only choice I'll either find a way to 
modify the theme colors or else I shy away from using the application at 
all.


The Gray and Light themes are both very nice, and both seem to run just 
fine on Gentoo Linux, as does the (far too dark for my preferences) 
"dark side of GIMP" theme.


For the Gray theme I chose the lighter symbolic icons, and for the Light 
theme, I chose the darker symbolic icons. Otherwise there was too little 
contrast between the icons and the background.


The Light theme color is light enough to be "light" without crossing the 
(somewhat indefinite) line into "too bright for comfortable continuous 
viewing", though the theme is definitely on the brighter side of light. 
For comparison, the Krita "bright" theme is actually darker than the 
GIMP Light theme, being very close in tonality to the current default 
GIMP theme.


If I had to use GIMP in single window mode (something I never do), with 
the Light theme I'd use the "dark check" (middle gray) background 
option, which is very close to what Krita uses as the background for the 
Krita "bright" theme.


Whoever drew the new monotone icons, they are *very* nice. Though in 
some ways I find the old icons with color a bit easier to look 
at/recognize, possibly only because I've looked at them for so long.


FWIW, I'll probably switch over from the Default to the SeaofGray theme, 
but still use the Default theme icons.


Using Preferences to change from one theme to the next several times in 
a row makes the Toolbox get one icon narrower each time a different 
theme is selected.


Some icons are missing, but I think you already have a list?

Elle

Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

[Kevin Payne]

>From: gimp-gui-list <gimp-gui-list-boun...@gnome.org> on behalf of Jehan 
><je...@girinstud.io>
>Sent: 29 December 2015 18:07
>To: gimp-gui-list
>Cc: draekko.software
>Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] GIMP Theme UI now and future.

>P.S.: I think you can test the themes with the released 2.9.2, but you
>won't have support for the symbolic icons, I believe. If you want to try
>these, you'll need to have the master version.

Doesn't this requirement exclude any of us mere mortals testing this on Windows 
due to the lack of nightly builds?

Kevin