Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-04-05 Thread Jehan

Hi,

On 2016-04-05 20:22, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:

Am Freitag, 25. März 2016, 20:34:02 schrieb Jehan:

[...]


> Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links:
>
> https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/
> http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/
>
> I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want
> to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX.
> Perhaps we find a way for it.

As said on IRC, we would welcome these tests, as well as any other UX
user testing. I unfortunately really can't make the time myself to
construct such tests. But if anyone is interesting and would prepare
good and relevant tests about this topic or others, we would review
these, and upon validation, I would be in favor of running these 
(either

in events, like LGM for instance, or from the web by making some form
advertized through a news on gimp.org…).


I'll be at LGM, so if you need a guinea pig to see how people cope with 
the

themes I'd he happy to help.


Unfortunately I don't think anyone has prepared any usability tests. Or 
at least I haven't heard about these.

But come say hi anyway!

Jehan
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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-04-05 Thread Tobias Ellinghaus
Am Freitag, 25. März 2016, 20:34:02 schrieb Jehan:

[...]

> > Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links:
> > 
> > https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/
> > http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/
> > 
> > I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want
> > to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX.
> > Perhaps we find a way for it.
> 
> As said on IRC, we would welcome these tests, as well as any other UX
> user testing. I unfortunately really can't make the time myself to
> construct such tests. But if anyone is interesting and would prepare
> good and relevant tests about this topic or others, we would review
> these, and upon validation, I would be in favor of running these (either
> in events, like LGM for instance, or from the web by making some form
> advertized through a news on gimp.org…).

I'll be at LGM, so if you need a guinea pig to see how people cope with the 
themes I'd he happy to help.

> So yes, feel free. :-)
> 
> Jehan

Tobias

> > Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work.
> > 
> > Sven

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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-03-23 Thread Sven Claussner


Hi,

I'm also for renaming the current 'Default' to 'System' to point out
that this theme aims for integration into the system's look.

For theming I'm also for obeying Jimmacs and other designers' advices.
They deal with such topics all day which is much more than we devs do,
so they are more experienced. Furthermore Jimmac was involved in the
icon design.

My personal favorite is the Dark theme with the light symbolic icon
theme. Many well-known graphics application nowadays have a dark UI,
so it can be considered a standard. It's unobtrusive and not
distracting.

Lately in IRC I mentioned icon usability tests. Here are the links:

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/icon-testing/
http://user-prompt.com/methodology-of-testing-icons/

I didn't have time to work out user tests, but at least I want
to give us the chance to optimize our icons for great UX.
Perhaps we find a way for it.

Greetings and thanks to all people involved into the theming work.

Sven

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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-03-22 Thread Jehan

Hi,

On 2016-03-22 09:14, Kevin Payne wrote:

Well I'm pleased you've re-named them in git because I was about to
complain about the names- Darker is a relative term, It's darker than
what? Than the Dark? Than the Grey? But you have now established that
Darker is darker than Dark! (and Lighter is lighter than Light) and
thankfully we don't have to think about localising the names.

As you say, the theme defines which symbolic icon-theme to use, and my
choice of theme would be the mid-grey (but personally I will modify it
to make the text white instead of dark) With the light symbolic icons.

As far as a new name for the "Default" theme - I think "System" does 
the job.


And on a side note, I'm not continuing with making pixel-aligned icons
because I've been unable to get anyone to communicate a decision about
what sizes are the default.


Sorry lately I could not make the time to think much on this specific 
topic. :-/


Jehan

---
ZeMarmot open animation film
http://film.zemarmot.net
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot


Kevin


From: gimp-gui-list <gimp-gui-list-boun...@gnome.org> on behalf of
Jehan <je...@girinstud.io>
Sent: 22 March 2016 00:23
To: gimp-gui-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon 
theme?


Oh one more question!

On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote:

Hello all,

Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker.
The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the
default theme of your desktop.
The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon
size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I
have to take the time and improve it before merging).

We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new
color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end,
allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for
the default size.
The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy".

Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the
symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are
going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this
is the way to go.

So the questions are:
1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the
light one?
2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/
limits the possible answers to 2/)?


3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be
renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop
theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else?

Jehan


Thanks!

Jehan

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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-03-22 Thread Jehan

Hi,

On 2016-03-22 09:42, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 3:21 AM, Jehan wrote:


So the questions are:
1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the 
light

one?
2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/ 
limits the

possible answers to 2/)?


These questions don't make a lot of sense to me. Light symbolic icon
theme doesn't work well with lighter UI themes. Dark symbolic icon
theme doesn't work well with darker UI themes. Otherwise the contrast
is compromised.


Well that's why I explicitly said: "the answer to 1/ limits the possible 
answers to 2/".



Hence if the system/default UI theme is considerably light, you
automatically go with the dark icon theme.


Yes the alternative is to keep using the "Default/System" theme. But as 
you note, we would need to know whether this is a light or dark theme. 
Now there may be a way, but I just can't find it. I am a little lost in 
all this GTK+ theming thing. We don't want to use light icons on a 
system light themes, nor dark on dark.


So either someone gives me the solution to this, and then I think 
keeping the system theme is clearly the best solution (at least for 
Linux distributions. On Windows and OSX, this probably doesn't matter), 
or we have to choose one of our new themes and make our own default 
choice, not caring about what how the system theme is configured.


Last alternative is of course to keep using color icons (since they go 
on every shade of grey), but then we go against the opinion of Jimmac 
and other designers.


3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it 
be
renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop 
theme.

So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else?


'System' looks good to me :)


Seems most people think "System" is good. I guess I'll rename it this 
way, then.


Jehan

---
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http://film.zemarmot.net
Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot
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Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

2016-03-22 Thread Kevin Payne
Well I'm pleased you've re-named them in git because I was about to complain 
about the names- Darker is a relative term, It's darker than what? Than the 
Dark? Than the Grey? But you have now established that Darker is darker than 
Dark! (and Lighter is lighter than Light) and thankfully we don't have to think 
about localising the names.

As you say, the theme defines which symbolic icon-theme to use, and my choice 
of theme would be the mid-grey (but personally I will modify it to make the 
text white instead of dark) With the light symbolic icons.

As far as a new name for the "Default" theme - I think "System" does the job.

And on a side note, I'm not continuing with making pixel-aligned icons because 
I've been unable to get anyone to communicate a decision about what sizes are 
the default.

Kevin 


From: gimp-gui-list <gimp-gui-list-boun...@gnome.org> on behalf of Jehan 
<je...@girinstud.io>
Sent: 22 March 2016 00:23
To: gimp-gui-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Gimp-gui] What should be the default theme and icon theme?

Oh one more question!

On 2016-03-22 01:21, Jehan wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Now we have 5 themes in GIMP: lighter, light, gray, dark and darker.
> The "Default" theme will likely stay since it corresponds to the
> default theme of your desktop.
> The "Small" theme will disappear as soon as we have customizable icon
> size (which should be soon, there is already a working patch, but I
> have to take the time and improve it before merging).
>
> We have a symbolic icon theme in light and dark colors, and a new
> color icon theme. Hopefully all these should be vectorial in the end,
> allowing various scaling, while still be pixel-perfect at least for
> the default size.
> The original icon theme stays under the name "Legacy".
>
> Now for GIMP 2.10, the default icon theme should likely be one of the
> symbolic themes, since this is the direction where most software are
> going, and historic GIMP/GNOME icon designer Jimmac really things this
> is the way to go.
>
> So the questions are:
> 1/ which symbolic icon theme should be the default? The dark or the
> light one?
> 2/ which theme should be the default (of course, the answer to 1/
> limits the possible answers to 2/)?

3/ Since "Default" won't be the default theme anymore, how should it be
renamed? Basically that's the theme which follows the current desktop
theme. So should it be "System"? "Desktop-integration"? Something else?

Jehan

> Thanks!
>
> Jehan
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