Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Hi, On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 22:01 +0100, Karine Delvare wrote: I've started to sporadically write something along those lines [2], so if you'd like to join forces we could move this away from my personal dokuwiki space that's hosted on a very unreliable server to somewhere more appropriate. That sounds great! The development news are hosted on my gimp webpage and I am currently the only one able to produce them, which is not very bright (there have been some holiday weeks with no news because of that). I also host some new features descriptions with screenshots on my blog, but they are not many and not very visible. I would like to suggest that you and Jakub, and whoever else wants to contribute, concentrate on making a nice and comprehensive feature list for the 2.4 release notes. After that we can then use your experiences with this collaborative work to improve the quality of the release notes for the development versions. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 14:54 +0100, Karine Delvare wrote: Now that I'm more familiar with parsing Bugzilla and the Changelog, I could build a more public news flow, with much less items and screenshots of the new features. Where would it go? News items in www.gimp.org front page, another feed, ... ? Hi Karine, I think the release notes are a great way to educate the potential user what GIMP can do. The blender folks do an extremely good job with their release notes, graphically describing new features [1]. I've started to sporadically write something along those lines [2], so if you'd like to join forces we could move this away from my personal dokuwiki space that's hosted on a very unreliable server to somewhere more appropriate. [1] http://blender.org/cms/Blender_2_42.727.0.html [2] http://wiki.jimmac.net/doku.php?id=gimp:gimp-2-4-releasenotes cheers -- Jakub Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 20:31, Jakub Steiner wrote: Hi Karine, I think the release notes are a great way to educate the potential user what GIMP can do. The blender folks do an extremely good job with their release notes, graphically describing new features [1]. I've started to sporadically write something along those lines [2], so if you'd like to join forces we could move this away from my personal dokuwiki space that's hosted on a very unreliable server to somewhere more appropriate. That sounds great! The development news are hosted on my gimp webpage and I am currently the only one able to produce them, which is not very bright (there have been some holiday weeks with no news because of that). I also host some new features descriptions with screenshots on my blog, but they are not many and not very visible. We would still have to decide the format of the public news / release notes (the blender graphical release notes are indeed a very good example), where to publish them, and how to allow several people to contribute to them (you and me, or more people). The Gimp website has a news feature that could fulfill those needs if I remember correctly, but I don't know whether that would be the best place to publish something like that. Anyway, I'm all for contributing to eye-candy release notes. I'm still undecided about whether these should replace the actual development news or not, I guess it depends on whether there would still be an interest for detailed development news (Sven Neumann proposed to add more descriptions to the rather bland reports I make) once the graphical release notes are there. Karine ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Michael Schumacher wrote: It would be nice to have more than the NEWS file to tell about new features - an overview with examples, but as anything else this needs a) time and b) someone to do it (volunteers)? Karine Delvare has taken on the responsiblity to provide a more readable news feed (seen at http://developer.gimp.org/), but it is still too textual (Karine, please do not think that I don't value your work). Others are spreading the news as well in articles, mailing lists, forums, ..., but this about all we've got on gimp.org Now that I'm more familiar with parsing Bugzilla and the Changelog, I could build a more public news flow, with much less items and screenshots of the new features. Where would it go? News items in www.gimp.org front page, another feed, ... ? Karine ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Michael Trümmer wrote: What Digg-Users think about The GIMP: http://digg.com/linux_unix/GIMP_is_more_powerful_than_most_people_think_See_complete_tutorials_here You know, it's funny. Discussions about GIMP and it's interface (as compared to PS) so often seem to lead to statements like GIMP is only bad because you are used to PS, I used GIMP first for x years and when I tried PS I thought it was horrible. I have used GIMP for the past 4 or more years, and have watched it grow and improve; I have used PS only a couple of times at the college I went to in the computer labs, and was unwilling to buy it. I had this personal interest in trying to find open source alternatives for every task I needed to accomplish. Anyway, contrary to the claims that others have made, I did not find photoshop difficult or time-consuming to use. I picked it up in a snap, despite my years of experience with GIMP, and having used paintbrush most of my life b4 that. Perhaps a real graphic artist using complex techniques might have a different story to tell, but in my experience I don't agree. I still like GIMP, and was perfectly willing to try to work with the SDI interface, regardless of my personal preferences, but my experience with GIMP-win has been difficult. Gimpshop does not solve the problem either. There are no settings/plugins in GIMP (to my knowledge) that provide either a reliable MDI interface or a truly usable SDI interface. New settings recently added like transient windows have quirks, and always on top is not a good alternative either. I understand that developers are saying (I'm sure justifiably) that Windows is the real problem. Be that as it may, on Windows, GIMP does not achieve a truly usable interface. While you may not like Photoshop's use of MDI, you must concede that Photoshop does have a reliable interface that is actually MDI (so do many other graphic programs). GIMP on windows does not get SDI right. When it does, then you can make a better comparison. Somebody will probably tell me that a virtual desktop is the best solution in Windows and that's probably true. No, I can't use Linux right now, and yes, I have tried. I will probably do some experimenting and file a bug report or two describing in detail the quirks that I mentioned. Now these quirks do not (as others would claim) make it impossible to use GIMP, but they can make it irritating at times. I still use GIMP and enjoy it, and prefer it because it is free and always being developed and is does not create files that you can't view without spending money. I am sure GIMP's biggest need is more developers. Being an outsider in that regard, I am not sure why GIMP doesn't seem to have the same level of dedicated developer support as some other projects. In my opinion, GIMP is more exciting and has more potential than most of it's free competitors. I would love to see the open source world gather round and give PS a run for the money. Hopefully soon I will start helping out somehow myself, I am trying to plan for that. Ben W. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 11:13 -0500, Ben Walker wrote: There are no settings/plugins in GIMP (to my knowledge) that provide either a reliable MDI interface or a truly usable SDI interface. New settings recently added like transient windows have quirks, and always on top is not a good alternative either. I understand that developers are saying (I'm sure justifiably) that Windows is the real problem. Be that as it may, on Windows, GIMP does not achieve a truly usable interface. You are perfectly right here. The problem is however that we don't have much, if any, active developers that contribute Win32 specific code to GTK+ and GIMP that would address this problem. There is almost no contributions from Windows users, but lots of complaints. Now tell me why we should even care about them? We would accept patches. There is a lot to do to improve the user experience on the Windows platform. Same holds true for Mac OS X. But unless there's active contributions, this isn't going to change. No matter how loud the complaints are. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
On 12/5/06, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 11:13 -0500, Ben Walker wrote: There are no settings/plugins in GIMP (to my knowledge) that provide either a reliable MDI interface or a truly usable SDI interface. New settings recently added like transient windows have quirks, and always on top is not a good alternative either. I understand that developers are saying (I'm sure justifiably) that Windows is the real problem. Be that as it may, on Windows, GIMP does not achieve a truly usable interface. You are perfectly right here. The problem is however that we don't have much, if any, active developers that contribute Win32 specific code to GTK+ and GIMP that would address this problem. There is almost no contributions from Windows users, but lots of complaints. Now tell me why we should even care about them? We would accept patches. There is a lot to do to improve the user experience on the Windows platform. Same holds true for Mac OS X. But unless there's active contributions, this isn't going to change. No matter how loud the complaints are. Sven If there was an option in Gimp to dock the windows so that they function as one, that would solve the problem. Ie - bring one to the front, they all come to the front. I don't know about Win32, as I'm on Linux, but that's one feature that I have yet to discover. -- Anthony Ettinger phone: 408-656-2473 resume: http://chovy.dyndns.org/resume.html Currently available for contract work blog: http://www.chovy.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 11:38 -0800, Anthony Ettinger wrote: If there was an option in Gimp to dock the windows so that they function as one, that would solve the problem. Ie - bring one to the front, they all come to the front. I don't know about Win32, as I'm on Linux, but that's one feature that I have yet to discover. Have you actually tried GIMP 2.3 yet? Anyway, if you want to dock the toolbox and other windows to the image window, go provide a patch then. Or better yet, ask on the gimp-developer list about the plans that we have for the GIMP user interface after 2.4 is out and check how your request integrates with that. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 11:13 -0500, Ben Walker wrote: There are no settings/plugins in GIMP (to my knowledge) that provide either a reliable MDI interface or a truly usable SDI interface. New settings recently added like transient windows have quirks, and always on top is not a good alternative either. I understand that developers are saying (I'm sure justifiably) that Windows is the real problem. Be that as it may, on Windows, GIMP does not achieve a truly usable interface. You are perfectly right here. The problem is however that we don't have much, if any, active developers that contribute Win32 specific code to GTK+ and GIMP that would address this problem. There is almost no contributions from Windows users, but lots of complaints. Now tell me why we should even care about them? We would accept patches. There is a lot to do to improve the user experience on the Windows platform. Same holds true for Mac OS X. But unless there's active contributions, this isn't going to change. No matter how loud the complaints are. Sven You make a good point. I didn't bring up the topic to complain, but rather to point out that those who think they dislike the SDI interface on Windows might like it if it worked. Usually everyone says bug off, go use Gimpshop, I like SDI, GIMP is different and doesn't aim to copy, etc... but miss the fact that there are real problems. I would be happy to submit windows patches if I knew how, but I am not a programmer. I have recently tried playing around with script-fu and was planning to make some scripts. I also do web-design and was thinking of trying to help out that way too. Despite doing QBasic and Word macros as a hobby, and taking one class on C++, I'm afraid my skills in this area are very limited. The amount of help I would need to understand GIMP and provide patches would be so great that developers would no doubt find it easier to simply write the patches instead of helping me write them. Should I join the developer list to discuss the website, or should I post suggestions, sketches to this list for user input? Ben W. ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 15:37 -0500, Ben Walker wrote: You make a good point. I didn't bring up the topic to complain, but rather to point out that those who think they dislike the SDI interface on Windows might like it if it worked. I think we are well aware of the problem and we would like to improve it. A lot of changes in the development version actually deal with it. Unfortunately it turned out that they only improve the situation with window managers on UNIX. We had to turn off most of this on Win32 because it doesn't work. It even made things worse. Should I join the developer list to discuss the website, or should I post suggestions, sketches to this list for user input? There's a gimp-web mailing-list. But the website is pretty much unmaintained and I am not sure if the gimp-web list is going to give you the attention you would like to get. I would very much welcome an effort to improve the website. Sven ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
On 12/5/06, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 11:38 -0800, Anthony Ettinger wrote: If there was an option in Gimp to dock the windows so that they function as one, that would solve the problem. Ie - bring one to the front, they all come to the front. I don't know about Win32, as I'm on Linux, but that's one feature that I have yet to discover. Have you actually tried GIMP 2.3 yet? Anyway, if you want to dock the toolbox and other windows to the image window, go provide a patch then. Or better yet, ask on the gimp-developer list about the plans that we have for the GIMP user interface after 2.4 is out and check how your request integrates with that. I'm using 2.3.10. How do I dock it to the image window? ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Anthony Ettinger wrote: I'm using 2.3.10. How do I dock it to the image window? Anyway, if you want to dock the toolbox and other windows to the image window, go provide a patch then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(Unix), i.e. you'll have to write the code for this first. HTH, Michael -- GIMP http://www.gimp.org | IRC: irc://irc.gimp.org/gimp Wiki http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de Plug-ins http://registry.gimp.org | ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
On 12/5/06, Michael Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony Ettinger wrote: I'm using 2.3.10. How do I dock it to the image window? Anyway, if you want to dock the toolbox and other windows to the image window, go provide a patch then. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(Unix), i.e. you'll have to write the code for this first. Thanks. -- Anthony Ettinger phone: 408-656-2473 resume: http://chovy.dyndns.org/resume.html Currently available for contract work blog: http://www.chovy.com ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] Interesting opinions
Since this is all about GIMP vs. PS, I just would like to say that these softwares may be basically the same, the end result depends more on the user. Both softwares have the same tools on their tool bars, or tools menu, and they also they function as good as the other. This is not a factor to some people, those who are not fund of using filters (for PS) or script-fu (for GIMP). However we cannot deny that most graphic artists or layout editors choose PS over GIMP, for the reason that they are not used to it yet, or that they have faith in PS more. So, with regards to this, I would like to point out that you can always customize GIMP shortcuts to match or to mimic those of PS. This will be much easier for new user. ( I'm sorry I can't find the url where I found the shortcut equivalents, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere). In my own preference, both softwares are good, but as for this moment, I use PS more than gimp because of this feature which enables you to folder your layers. It runs well under wine, and performs OK. Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
