Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2010-02-19 Thread Norman Silverstone
 snip 

 After a lot of too-ing and fro-ing, plus an element of magic, I actually
 found the Restore item in the menu!
 
 I then tried two scanned slides with Restore.  The one I have described
 already (boy in Napoleon outfit in front of mountain) and another, a field of
 red poppies with fringing bushes.  The former showed little change after
 trying all variations of Restore, notably that the blue tinge was not
 lightened and the yellow splashes in the sky stayed there.  The poppies,
 however, did shown an improvement in that the fringing bushes certainly became
 more green than before.
 
 Having no instructions for using Restore, I assume I used in correctly - I
 suppose there's not much more to be done than ring the changes on the
 controls?
 
 Where does one find the file referred to earlier - photorestore.pdf?

Before you can really start to get involved in the restoration of old
transparencies I would suggest that you try to understand what has, in
fact, happened to the dyes responsible for producing those colours. You
can take it from me that there is no single, easy way to solve the
problem without producing some degradation in quality and detail and I
am of the opinion that each slide has to be treated on its own merits.
I am sure a Google search could be most productive and, if you would
like to make copies of your slides available I would be delighted to try
to see what various methods could do.

There are some interesting examples to found at :-

http://www.23hq.com/photogroup/5034048/

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2010-02-16 Thread Norman Silverstone
 snip 
 
 A very fair question!  The answer is simply that the colours in the print are
 far more natural than those in my newly digitised slide.  For example, in
 the print the sky contains grey, rainy looking clouds below a pale, whitish
 background of higher cloud.  The digitised slide makes the grey clouds more
 blue, and the background cloud layer has splashes of yellow!  A comparable
 change is in the mountain peak below the clouds - formerly a steely grey
 colour, it is now quite bluish.  The view in this picture is one with which I
 was very familiar, and I am certainly more comfortable with a grey mountain
 than a bluish one!
 
 Are you using the restore.py plug-in?  If so, can you enlighten me as to the
 mechanics of adding this to my version of GIMP?
 
There is lots of useful information to be found in 

http://forum.meetthegimp.org/

Might I suggest you have a look there and then, if there is anything
more you would like to know, or discuss, please come back here.

Norman


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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-10-20 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On 2009-10-05, Marcus for...@gimpusers.com wrote:
  http://www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/gimp_plugins/

gives err404.  Any idea where one can currently get it?

 Strange. I tried your link, and it works for me. Can you get to Geoff's web
 page with the following link?

 http://www.lionhouse.plus.com/

Thanks, looks like it was a temporary server problem.

Yours,
Ilya

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-09-27 Thread Ilya Zakharevich
On 2009-09-28, Marcus for...@gimpusers.com wrote:
 Geoff,

 great work, I am particularly impressed by the theory behind your plugin.

  http://www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/gimp_plugins/

gives err404.  Any idea where one can currently get it?

Thanks,
Ilya

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-03-21 Thread norman
Looking through the examples I noticed that B and G had a colour cast
similar to the colour produced by the filter on colour negatives. Some
months ago I spent some time turning colour negatives into a digital
form and then processing them in GIMP. Having got the original RAW
images I had a look to see what Restore could do. The results are most
encouraging and could lead to another use of the plug-in.

It is really very simple. Take the image of the colour negative and
apply Restore at the default settings. Then choose Colours - Invert and
the positive image is there. 

I suppose there is no reason why the invert step could not be
incorporated into the plug-in as another option.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-03-20 Thread norman
 snip 

 I owe Norman a sincere apology.  At some time in the past a line of code got
 deleted from my plug-in.  (It went through dozens of versions!) This has no
 effect on the restorations with default settings but the degree of
 restoration slider does not work properly, especially when the original is
 dark.  Further tests showed that, even with the missing code, it did not work
 as planned.  A setting of 0.0 was intended to leave the original unchanged and
 1.0 is the theoretical correct value.  I have corrected the plug-in and
 fixed several minor bugs in a new version.

No apology needed but thanks all the same. The new version is indeed an
improvement and I will start a new set of tests. When the restore is
complete the new image appears behind the original. Is that always the
case or is it due to the way I have things set up?
 
 So I am very sorry but some users may have been wasting their time.  I
 suppose if the restorations look good it is not wasted.  I did, of course,
 test the plug-in before release, I just did not test it on a wide enough range
 of images to detect the error.

Time certainly has not been wasted, it is most interesting trying out
different ideas.
 
 I have put a more detailed document update.pdf on the website and the results
 of some more tests.

A most impressing collection of results.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-03-17 Thread norman
I am still interested in the use of this plug-in and have been trying
out a variety of tests with a selection of my slide copies. This test
may not be strictly valid but I have been measuring the colour value of
a white item using different settings of Restore and assuming that the
blue cast has been removed when the white item gives ff.
Generally, I have found that a setting of 0.1 will not give this but a
setting of 0.2 does. The resulting images look quite pleasant, not too
contrasty and retaining a good level of detail.

If any one else is trying Restore I would like to exchange views and
images.

Norman  

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-27 Thread norman
It would be useful if the slider range could be altered, especially to
be able to go below 0.7. I am not a programmer and, therefore, I do not
know if this is possible or how complicated it is but, if it can be
done, I would love to be able to try the effect.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-27 Thread Doug
norman wrote:
 It would be useful if the slider range could be altered, especially to
 be able to go below 0.7. I am not a programmer and, therefore, I do not
 know if this is possible or how complicated it is but, if it can be
 done, I would love to be able to try the effect.

 Norman

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The restore plug-in works very well indeed for me in general.
I'd also like to be able to set a degree of restoration below 0.7.

I have a couple of comments:
(1) With some slides, restoration of 1.2 causes the plugin to crash with 
setting out of bounds
(2) I have a couple of problematic slides I've sent on to Geoff for him 
to explore possible limitations of the algorithm:
 (i) One, an Ektachrome dating from 1981, is puzzling. The 
appearance isn't exceptional; it has a slightly greenish cast. All 
adjustments make a noticeable difference to the appearance; but they all 
(setting the sliders 0.7 -1.2, less blue yes/no, combine all layers 
yes/no) end up with images that have little or no discernible 
differences between them.
(ii) The other, an Ektachrome from 1977, is representative of a 
certain number of 30-year old slides where the blue colour seems to have 
been completely destroyed, giving bright yellow skies. It may be 
unreasonably challenging for the algorithm and causes the plugin to 
crash. But it would be nice if the plugin could make some sort of a stab 
at restoration or if not, fail gracefully.
 

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-27 Thread norman
 snip 

 The degree of restoration is designed to be 1.0 according to the
 mathematics in my technical notes but I have found that for some images the
 resulting colours become a bit too garish, hence the slider.  I had not
 expected values below 0.7 would be useful but the default range can be changed
 in the line  (PF_SLIDER, contrast, Degree of Restoration,  1.0, (0.7, 1.2,
 0.1) ), near the end of the file.

Thanks, I will try my hand at changing the slider and see what happens.
The main reason I have in wanting to go lower than 0.7 is to see, if
possible, where the loss of detail starts to occur.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-27 Thread norman

  snip 

 Thanks, I will try my hand at changing the slider and see what happens.
 The main reason I have in wanting to go lower than 0.7 is to see, if
 possible, where the loss of detail starts to occur.

I changed the 0.7 setting to 0.2 and ran restore. Just had a quick look
and report that the results are very interesting. What seems to be
happening is that the amount of blue removed is about the same but the
contrast is increasing as the slider setting is increased. I would be
interested to know if anyone else has tried going to lower settings and
with what results. I must spend a lot more time and follow this up.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-25 Thread norman
First, to put things into context. It was always a source of frustration
that one was not able to manipulate colour transparancies in the same
way that black and white negatives could be manipulated in the darkroom.
(Amateur colour printing had not yet arrived). So, when I had set up my
digital darkroom I decided to investigate copying and manipulating some
of my old colour slides. After studying the literature, I decided to
make copies using my Olympus SP-500 UZ with an adjustable close-up
attachment with supplementary lenses attached to the front of the
camera. Images were recorded in both RAW and JPEG.

Images for this exercise were selected, more or less at random, from
those which had been made from  Kodachrome 25 colour transparencies
which were about 30 years old. Only JPEG images as produced by the
camera were used and no attempt has been made to produce the correct,
restored image but rather to be able to compare the results obtained
from the two extremes of the slider setting and the original copy. Also,
as this was not a debuging exercise, no reference has been made to any
images which caused error messages to be displayed. The settings were
'Make less blue' - Yes, 'Combine all layers' - Yes and 'Degree of
Restoration' slider settings were either 1.2 or 0.7.

The images are available at www.littletank.org/upload and are arranged
in groups of 3. The left-hand image is the original slide copy, the
centre image is with the slider set at 1.2 and the right-hand image is
with the slider set to 0.7. You are free to use these images for any
tests, measurements or observations you care to make and if you have any
questions please do not hesitate to ask. All I ask is that if you want
to use any of them in any publication, please let me know.

So far, the process looks very encouraging but there must be many
questions to be answered before it will be possible to comment with
confidence on the use of the Restore plug-in. For example, what effect,
if any, is there on the fine detail stored within the original
transparency. 

I hope that these observations and the images will prove to be useful.

Norman
 
 

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-24 Thread Doug
norman wrote:
  snip 

   
 Thanks for your message.  As you deduce I am more interested in the
 processing algorithm than the coding.  There are too many poor results at the
 moment and I suspect there will be modifications to the method when I have
 more experience of its performance.  For this reason I have not put it on a
 gimp site.  I am happy for anyone to develop the plug-in further and improve
 the interface but there is not much point until the algorithm is unlikely to
 change.  I have killed the spurious hidden image which was left over from the
 way of correcting the side absorptions.
 


 Geoff, I have started to look at a number of copies of old Kodachrome
 slides and I am beginning to get together several comments many of which
 would be best exemplified by examples. Therefore, I would like to know
 whether, at this stage in the development and because of your main
 interest being in the algorithm, you and other readers would think it
 best if this subject was continued outside this list.

 Norman   
   
The subject's of considerable interest to me and I'd like to be kept 
aware of any developments. So for my 0.02c worth, I'd prefer it to stay 
on the main list.

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-23 Thread Doug
norman wrote:
  snip 

   
 I have a large collection of old slides showing all the problems you 
 describe in your article to greater or lesser degree, so
 I was extremely interested in your post. I've downloaded your plugins.
 Unfortunately  I get a Forbidden error when I try to download the 
 readme.txt; and it's not clear to me how to get the python plugins 
 actually installed in Gimp 2.6 after copying them into the 
 ~/.gimp-2.6/plugins directory.
 Can you help?
 

 I read the photorestore.pdf file. 

 Norman
   
So did I, but there's no protection against senility :-[ .
However, I then read your earlier post, Norman - bangs head on wall!! - 
of course, permissions :-[ :-[
(it's normally the first thing I think of, but my excuse is that I've 
got used to gramps, where 'Reload Plugins' does that for you).

Yes, they're all there. Now I can get down to trying them out.

Doug

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread norman

 I was scanning a lot of colour transparencies, some taken up to 40 years ago,
 and found that in some cases the colours had deteriorated badly.  After a lot
 of experimenting I have developed an automatic way of improving the digital
 scans using gimp.  I have put a technical article, the gimp plug-in, and a
 collection of the good and bad results at
 www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be interested in hearing
 from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try the plug-in let me
 know how it works for your pictures.

Although your maths is way above my head your results are most
impressive. I have worked with old colour transparencies most of which
are Kodak processed and have been stored in relatively good conditions.
They were copied using an attachment to my digital camera and processed
using UFRaw and Gimp. I will be happy to try your plug-in especially if
it will work with RAW images. Please let me know which is the best to
use JPEG or RAW.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread bgw
geoff wrote:
 I was scanning a lot of colour transparencies, some taken up to 40 years ago,
 and found that in some cases the colours had deteriorated badly.  After a lot
 of experimenting I have developed an automatic way of improving the digital
 scans using gimp.  I have put a technical article, the gimp plug-in, and a
 collection of the good and bad results at
 www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be interested in hearing
 from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try the plug-in let me
 know how it works for your pictures.
   
Beautiful work, Geoff. Looks like it might be something that could be 
expanded into other kinds of exposure problems.
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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread saulgoode
Quoting geoff for...@gimpusers.com:

 I was scanning a lot of colour transparencies, some taken up to 40 years ago,
 and found that in some cases the colours had deteriorated badly.  After a lot
 of experimenting I have developed an automatic way of improving the digital
 scans using gimp.  I have put a technical article, the gimp plug-in, and a
 collection of the good and bad results at
 www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be interested   
 in hearing from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try
 the plug-in let me know how it works for your pictures.

Your script produces some very impressive results and your methodology  
is quite ingenious. I especially like how you exploit the quantization  
capabilities of GIMP (i.e., using Indexed colormaps).

I was wondering what licensing your script is released under. There is  
room for improvement of your script, particularly with regard to its  
behavior as a GIMP plug-in and it would be easier to develop your  
script further if it were licensed to allow the sharing of derivatives  
(GPL, BSD, etc). This is especially true if your main interest lies  
with the image algorithms and you are less interested in the demands  
of the GIMP plug-in interface (e.g., handling UNDO, honoring  
selections, providing more flexible utility, menu location, etc). One  
thing that should be fixed fairly soon is that your script seems to  
produce a hidden image (i.e., no view associated) and neglect to  
remove it when finished.

Regards.

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread Doug
geoff wrote:
 I was scanning a lot of colour transparencies, some taken up to 40 years ago,
 and found that in some cases the colours had deteriorated badly.  After a lot
 of experimenting I have developed an automatic way of improving the digital
 scans using gimp.  I have put a technical article, the gimp plug-in, and a
 collection of the good and bad results at
 www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be interested in hearing
 from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try the plug-in let me
 know how it works for your pictures.
   
I have a large collection of old slides showing all the problems you 
describe in your article to greater or lesser degree, so
I was extremely interested in your post. I've downloaded your plugins.
Unfortunately  I get a Forbidden error when I try to download the 
readme.txt; and it's not clear to me how to get the python plugins 
actually installed in Gimp 2.6 after copying them into the 
~/.gimp-2.6/plugins directory.
Can you help?

Doug
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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread norman
 snip 

 I have a large collection of old slides showing all the problems you 
 describe in your article to greater or lesser degree, so
 I was extremely interested in your post. I've downloaded your plugins.
 Unfortunately  I get a Forbidden error when I try to download the 
 readme.txt; and it's not clear to me how to get the python plugins 
 actually installed in Gimp 2.6 after copying them into the 
 ~/.gimp-2.6/plugins directory.
 Can you help?

I read the photorestore.pdf file. 

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread norman
 snip 
 
 I have no experience of UFRaw.  If you can get your images into gimp my
 plug-in should work.  I have just changed it to remove the saving of debug
 data.  I will be interested in your experience.
 Geoff
 
I have tried with the plug-in but, unfortunately, I cannot detect
anything happening. I use Gimp 2.6.X and Ubuntu 10.4 and I will try to
explain what I did. I downloaded the file, installed it in the
appropriate plug-ins folder and set the permissions to execute. The
entry Batch Restore appeared in Gimp at the bottom of Filters. With a
slide copy loaded in Gimp I selected Batch Restore and a window opened
headed python-fu_batch_restore offering various options. I tried various
Degree of Restoration settings with Make less blue and also tried
turning Make less blue to No but in all cases on clicking OK the window
immediately closed and nothing seems to happen. 

The image I am working with was prepared by photographing the slide
using a close up attachment and is the JPG image straight from the
camera.

Am I doing something wrong or should I assume that the slide which is
getting on for 30 years old and from which the copy was made has no
deterioration in the colours? 

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread Tobias Jakobs
Hi,

I have problems to open the readme.txt:
http://www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore/readme.txt
403 Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /photosoftware/restore/readme.txt
on this server.

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:51, geoff for...@gimpusers.com wrote:
 www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be interested in hearing
 from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try the plug-in let me
 know how it works for your pictures.

Where can I find the plugin?

Regards,
Tobias
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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread norman
 snip 

 Sorry you are having problems.  It sounds to me that you are confusing the
 batch_restore plug-in with the restore plug-in.  The former is for doing a
 whole set of photographs.  The latter is for a single one. Load the image into
 gimp and go to the restore menu at the top of the window.  It should open a
 new window containing the restored image.

My most sincere apologies. I must be getting too old for this game, this
idiot loaded the wrong plug-in. Load the correct file and all is well
and works like a charm. Now, perhaps when I have refreshed my brain, I
will have a serious look at what can be done.

Norman

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Re: [Gimp-user] restoring faded transparencies

2009-02-22 Thread Alec Burgess


Tobias Jakobs (tobias.jak...@googlemail.com) wrote (in part)  (on
2009-02-22 at 14:51):

 On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:51, geoff for...@gimpusers.com wrote:
   www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/restore. I would be
 interested in hearing
   from anyone who has worked on this problem and if you try the
 plug-in let me
   know how it works for your pictures.

 Where can I find the plugin?

@Tobias - since Geoff hasn't had time to respond ...
Go up one level (click Parent Directory) then down to gimp_plugins
http://www.lionhouse.plus.com/photosoftware/gimp_plugins/
restore.py  is the one discussed in the PDF - the others may also be of 
interest.


--
Regards ... Alec   (bura...@gmail  WinLiveMess - alec.m.burg...@skype)


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