Re: [Gimp-user] sharpen vs. levels, curves, saturation
On Tuesday 09 October 2007 20:49:24 carol irvin wrote: in both photoshop and GIMP you do not need to do these functions as a layer adjustment (i.e. work on layers). You can use the Image menu in photoshop and make these adjustments without layers or in Gimp you can go to the Tools menu and do an adjustment under colors. as long as you are saving your various versions, there is no danger of being stuck with a change you don't like. You CAN do these as a layers adjustment but that presupposes that the user is already good at using layers and also wants to take the extra time to flatten and such. As for the actual use of the tools, each has its own dialog box with sliders and you manually slide the controls till you have something which pleases you. I am NOT a purist where I insist on doing everything in layers. I usually go to layers when I am blending various versions of images. There are some who would regard me as a heretic for saying this though as they don't believe you should do anything without using layers. I think any of these manuals we have been discussing show illustrations of all of the above. Grooking the GIMP, as previously given as a link to the group, for sure shows all of the above and that manual is entirely online and free. carol On 10/9/07, Patrick Shanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * carol irvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [10-09-07 23:14]: rather than relying on sharpen to sharpen an image, i have much better luck using levels or curves. i also typically increase saturation some on images after i have done a layers or curves adjustment. i thus almost never need to use sharpen, which is good, because sharpen usually doesn't make my image better. the above is true for both GIMP and Photoshop. Please provide a little more detail about this operation, ie: explain layers adjustment and which curves. interesting idea, tks, - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHDES1ClSjbQz1U5oRAk+vAJ9Mc7faAFMks3lcjM7xAvAUrbqdIwCgmxw5 PU8np2PUrv/6CJkw/sZavZw= =z3XG -END PGP SIGNATURE- I really cannot see any reason not to use layers - Flattening is such an easy but the benefits that come from using layers are so great that I would not see that as an obstacle. To not use layers seems IMHO rather like driving a car on a freeway whilst sticking to 30mph and choosing a low gear ratio. IF one is going to use sophisticated programs such as Gimp and photoshop then the additional effort of learning to use layers is trivial. As far as sharpening is concerned I agree with Carol. I have only ever found sharpening to have a role for low resolution images and then very rarely. It is a tool that is best forgotten in favor of developing higher basic skills. I would never sharpen (unless it is to achieve a specific artistic effect) on high resolution images but for these I always use raw at 16bit. Sharpening does not make a photographic image that was taken without being properly focused any sharper.. in fact when you carefully examine high resolution prints that have been so-called sharpened one can see the traces of the sharpening process and these only serve to make the image appear a little odd. If the image is not sharp to start with there is no digital process available that is going to replace poor technique at the capturing stage. My recomendation to students is if you think your photographic image needs sharpening then go back to basics.Use that image as a spur to re-examining your capturing technique. Examine your camera handling methods. See whether anappropriate shtter/aperture had been used and whether the ability to hand hold a camera steady has been over-estimmated or whether a hand held shot has been attempted that needed a tripod. Using a hand held camera in inapproprate conditions is a recipe for disaster. Could you have changed the ISO? My two pennorth ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] sharpen vs. levels, curves, saturation
i use layers all the time but it is in a mixing and blending context. i also have developed the rather odd habit of saving many, many different versions on the desktop while i am doing things in either program and i generally go to layers when i'm putting those images on top of one another and combining. when it comes to just doing color adjustments, i just tend to do it the non-layer way. i've never had a problem doing it this way. remember though that i am a painter, collage maker and such though, not a photographer. thus, my personal work habits tend to be a bit messier and sloppier than a photographer's. i'm sure a photographer is a lot more meticulous and technical straight across the board. just look at the difference one sees in their (former) studio environments. clean artists rarely get anything done whereas clean photographers are the norm. i am probably just a great deal more eccentric in the way i go about things than the average person so one doesn't necessarily want to follow my role model. generally, the messier the art form, the more i liked it too. carol I really cannot see any reason not to use layers - Flattening is such an easy but the benefits that come from using layers are so great that I would not see that as an obstacle. To not use layers seems IMHO rather like driving a car on a freeway whilst sticking to 30mph and choosing a low gear ratio. IF one is going to use sophisticated programs such as Gimp and photoshop then the additional effort of learning to use layers is trivial. As far as sharpening is concerned I agree with Carol. I have only ever found sharpening to have a role for low resolution images and then very rarely. It is a tool that is best forgotten in favor of developing higher basic skills. I would never sharpen (unless it is to achieve a specific artistic effect) on high resolution images but for these I always use raw at 16bit. Sharpening does not make a photographic image that was taken without being properly focused any sharper.. in fact when you carefully examine high resolution prints that have been so-called sharpened one can see the traces of the sharpening process and these only serve to make the image appear a little odd. If the image is not sharp to start with there is no digital process available that is going to replace poor technique at the capturing stage. My recomendation to students is if you think your photographic image needs sharpening then go back to basics.Use that image as a spur to re-examining your capturing technique. Examine your camera handling methods. See whether anappropriate shtter/aperture had been used and whether the ability to hand hold a camera steady has been over-estimmated or whether a hand held shot has been attempted that needed a tripod. Using a hand held camera in inapproprate conditions is a recipe for disaster. Could you have changed the ISO? My two pennorth ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user -- carol ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] sharpen vs. levels, curves, saturation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * carol irvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [10-09-07 23:14]: rather than relying on sharpen to sharpen an image, i have much better luck using levels or curves. i also typically increase saturation some on images after i have done a layers or curves adjustment. i thus almost never need to use sharpen, which is good, because sharpen usually doesn't make my image better. the above is true for both GIMP and Photoshop. Please provide a little more detail about this operation, ie: explain layers adjustment and which curves. interesting idea, tks, - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHDES1ClSjbQz1U5oRAk+vAJ9Mc7faAFMks3lcjM7xAvAUrbqdIwCgmxw5 PU8np2PUrv/6CJkw/sZavZw= =z3XG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Re: [Gimp-user] sharpen vs. levels, curves, saturation
in both photoshop and GIMP you do not need to do these functions as a layer adjustment (i.e. work on layers). You can use the Image menu in photoshop and make these adjustments without layers or in Gimp you can go to the Tools menu and do an adjustment under colors. as long as you are saving your various versions, there is no danger of being stuck with a change you don't like. You CAN do these as a layers adjustment but that presupposes that the user is already good at using layers and also wants to take the extra time to flatten and such. As for the actual use of the tools, each has its own dialog box with sliders and you manually slide the controls till you have something which pleases you. I am NOT a purist where I insist on doing everything in layers. I usually go to layers when I am blending various versions of images. There are some who would regard me as a heretic for saying this though as they don't believe you should do anything without using layers. I think any of these manuals we have been discussing show illustrations of all of the above. Grooking the GIMP, as previously given as a link to the group, for sure shows all of the above and that manual is entirely online and free. carol On 10/9/07, Patrick Shanahan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 * carol irvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [10-09-07 23:14]: rather than relying on sharpen to sharpen an image, i have much better luck using levels or curves. i also typically increase saturation some on images after i have done a layers or curves adjustment. i thus almost never need to use sharpen, which is good, because sharpen usually doesn't make my image better. the above is true for both GIMP and Photoshop. Please provide a little more detail about this operation, ie: explain layers adjustment and which curves. interesting idea, tks, - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USAHOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://counter.li.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHDES1ClSjbQz1U5oRAk+vAJ9Mc7faAFMks3lcjM7xAvAUrbqdIwCgmxw5 PU8np2PUrv/6CJkw/sZavZw= =z3XG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user -- carol ___ Gimp-user mailing list Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
