[Gimp-web] Retiring from the project

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

Hello,

I'm retiring from the project. I have neither time, nor motivation to
give it enough attention anymore, so let's make way for somebody else.

Website. I have a nice huge mindmap of onboarding content for new
contributors. I made that plan in Sep 2021, unfortunately, I couldn't
execute on it, sorry. If anyone's interested, here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZeptWzHvTZIiMueJMx9FAZotBVQ3T8sa/view?usp=sharing.

Social media. Two more people have admin access to the Facebook
account, one of them has been running it for close to two years now, I
think, and is otherwise active in the project. Noone except me uses
the Twitter account, but I already re-registered it to social@ months
ago specifically to make sure my departure doesn't jeopardize the
operation. I'll give the current password over a safe communication
channel (and will strongly suggest changing it) to anyone willing to
take over. I can maintain the Twitter account for another 30 days.
Hopefully, someone will step up prior to that. I'll also do my best to
consult anyone having problems maintaining the social accounts after
the Twitter account has been taken over. Email or Telegram
(@prokoudine) is fine.

UI/docs translations. I will probably continue updating the UI
translation at least until v3.0 release, if I find the time. I have no
plans to update the translation of the user manual.

Dev access. My developer's access to git will have to be removed after
v3.0 release (or immediately, whichever you prefer). I cannot do
anything about it myself because GNOME's Gitlab setup is effed up
beyond acceptable: it won't restore my password, and I don't care
enough to jump through hoops they invented for whatever reason. So
you'll have to kick me out manually :)

Good luck!

Alex
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[Gimp-web] Older news

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

Moin,

Currently, our news feed starts on 2006-08-11 with a post on Open
Usability collaboration.

I can add older news (as far back as 1998) for history preservation
reasons (aka for hysterical raisins) . Any objections?

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-web] download link

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM j garcia fernandez   wrote:

> but if I go to "direct download here" link which is
> https://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.10/windows/
> I can see a newer file:
> https://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.10/windows/gimp-2.10.18-setup-1.exe
> with SHA256 hash: 
> 3afe61d57dab032a087ddd45853bc52e967f706505a1aab953e7527586407b5b
>
> Is it safe to install this newer file?

Yes

> Why isn´t it pointed in the "Download GIMP 2.10.18 directly" link?

Maybe wasn't updated yet.

Alex
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Re: [Gimp-web] [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 2:47 PM C R  wrote:

> Well clearly he was harassing you with his facts and sarcasm.
>
> You'll pull through though. I believe in you!
> I've got to go now though. Have fun with whatever this is.
>

I'm afraid I've been giving a bad example how to deal with abusive users.
Let's not repeat my mistakes.

Alex

>
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Re: [Gimp-web] [Gimp-developer] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 6:25 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:

> Nope.
>
> Everything started because I was called a "backseat viewer", and therefore
> not allowed to say that scheduled releases are good. After that I was
> replying to that attitude, and not about whether rolling releases are
> better (which I had an extremely open mind about).
>

I'm afraid you are conflating "criticism" with "purposedly being a true
pain in the neck".

If people are not happy with unsheduled releases, I would (naively?) expect
them to begin with stating that they think this is wrong and then, politely
or not so much, asking why that is the case and what is the reason for not
switching to rolling. You never really asked. You started the conversation
with a claim that we should pay attention to users (like we don't, contrary
to a mountain of evidence) and that we tell them to f*** off. What did you
expect to happen next?

(For the record, I personally would prefer the rolling model for GIMP, but
it is currently not quite realistic. Besides, so far, most people who spoke
up seem to be happy with the new release model where new things get ported
to the stable branch and then released every month or two.)

In almost a week of this ongoing "conversation" you still haven't asked why
we don't do rolling and scheduled releases. This is exactly how much
constructive your "criticism" is. And I'm still willing to explain why,
publicly.

I'm only replying to this, because here you are again pretending that we
(or me personally) attack critics. We don't. All that happened here is that
I was sarcastic over yet another case of someone being unnecessarily nasty
to the point of insult.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it: criticism is welcome and
studied, but insults, shouting, and use of expletives aren't. Please learn
the difference. We cannot have a constructive conversation until you do.

Alex


>
> The message you quoted is way after things started going bad.
>
> As for your comparison with Starbucks, I don't abuse Starbucks employees
> and neither I abuse GIMP's staff.
>
> I also don't care about harsh words, I'm not a little snowflake. I just
> want to know if GIMP is represented by Alexandre like he implies, and if
> the GIMP team is OK with attacking newbies and critics of GIMP saying
> they're backseat drivers that are not worth listening to and not worth
> explaining things.
>
> I'm not the only one who shares the view that in GIMP there is this
> attitude of "if you didn't make it, you're not allowed to talk bad about
> it".
>
> If that's the culture at GIMP, I'm not gonna cry. Just say it.
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 16:00 C R  wrote:
>
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Re: [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 4:48 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:

> Regarding CCing people, my thread hasn't been approved, so I don't know if
> people can read it.
>
> Regarding the rest, you don't have to present exhibits, we're not in
> court. I'm giving you feedback about your behavior as someone who
> represents the whole team (unless I got your pronuons wrong, you keep
> saying "we"--possibly to give authority to your arguments--and you
> misrepresent yourself as a developer of GIMP).
>

I have never claimed to be developer of GIMP, publicly or privately -- you
have zero proof of your claim. I actually correct people when they call me
a developer, and I have enough verifiable proof of that.

If you think that continuos piling of factually wrong statements will help
your cause, I suggest you rethink your stategy.


> Take this feedback however you want. So can the rest of the team, but
> considering you've been speaking on their behalf it's important that they
> know what you're doing and that people aren't happy. If your behavior is
> appropriate for someone who represents the team, good to know. If it's not,
> don't speak on behalf of everyone else and at that point you can be as much
> of an asshole as you want with both newbies and people who disagree with
> you.
>

I will have to point out that name-calling, which you once again went for,
is not welcome on our mailing lists as per code of conduct:

https://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html

"Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid repetitive
arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks."

Please consider rethinking your interaction here.

Good day to you.

Alex


>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 14:28 Alexandre Prokoudine <
> alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 3:46 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:
>>
>>> OK. If you're bad at talking to people (since people come with
>>> misconceptions although you could easily change that), as someone who
>>> doesn't only speak for himself, you should just not talk to people.
>>>
>>> It's also not just me,  many people have the same problem with you. I
>>> guess it's you against the world.
>>>
>>> Let's see if the rest of the team is aware of your behavior, and --in
>>> case they have the courage to approve my message or at least reply--if they
>>> approve of it (BTW, why don't you CC them, if you are so sure your behavior
>>> is OK?).
>>>
>>
>> I don't need to CC people who are already subscribed to the mailing lists
>> you posted to. This is how mailing lists essentially work: people get
>> emails sent to those list.
>>
>>
>>> I have thick skin (mind you, some people that have messeged me don't as
>>> much, and are still upset about your attacks and were in tears),
>>>
>>
>> Oh yes, about that. The allegations. Since there have been only two other
>> problematic cases with users in the past week, I'm confident I can pinpoint
>> the relevant threads.
>>
>> Exhibit A:
>>
>> >>> A day or two ago I dared criticize GIMP [...] and that alexlg guy
>> came off the ropes so hard I was literally in tears over it. Just wanted to
>> tell you how validating it was to see you jousting over the exact same
>> ground with him just a few days earlier.
>>
>> This is this very thread:
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9vneh8/gimp_2108_released/e9ex8sl/
>>
>> There was a quite justified complaint that text layers are hard to use in
>> GIMP, which I readily agreed with. Nevertheless, this user came to say that
>> lack of maturity of that feature is present because of GIMP team's "mindset
>> of "you don't need it" and "we don't like it"". The harshest thing I said
>> in response was point out evidence of the contrary, then saying "Facts...
>> Always such an inconvenient thing, isn't it? :)".
>>
>> I'd love to see here the cause of alleged tears or coming hard off the
>> ropes.
>>
>> And Exhibit B:
>>
>> >>> [...] He even went so far as to mention me by name in another thread
>> entirely, basically calling me a whiny baby, once enough people had
>> dogpiled that he was forced to slightly change his stance on something.
>> Even if you win, you lose...
>>
>> This is this very thread:
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/9wrgwp/whats_new_in_gimp_2108_by_davis_media_design_this/
>>
>> Essentially, someone got steamed up because of having to spend shocking 3
>> minutes on "wading through a sea of jargon, buzzwords, mansplaining, and
>> patting yourselves on the back" which is how this person characterized the
>> official 2.10.8 announcement.
>>
>> "mention me by name in another thread entirely" is actually about the
>> very same thread --
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/9wrgwp/whats_new_in_gimp_2108_by_davis_media_design_this/e9oe05x/
>> -- about the very same topic: providing a shorter list of changes between
>> versions.
>>
>> And here is the "basically calling me a whiny baby" quote:
>>
>> "I don't see any way in Gitlab to view all files at the time of tagging a
>> 

Re: [Gimp-web] Alexandre Prokoudine attacks on GIMP critics around the Web

[Alexandre Prokoudine via gimp-web-list]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 3:46 PM Niccolo Brogi  wrote:

> OK. If you're bad at talking to people (since people come with
> misconceptions although you could easily change that), as someone who
> doesn't only speak for himself, you should just not talk to people.
>
> It's also not just me,  many people have the same problem with you. I
> guess it's you against the world.
>
> Let's see if the rest of the team is aware of your behavior, and --in case
> they have the courage to approve my message or at least reply--if they
> approve of it (BTW, why don't you CC them, if you are so sure your behavior
> is OK?).
>

I don't need to CC people who are already subscribed to the mailing lists
you posted to. This is how mailing lists essentially work: people get
emails sent to those list.


> I have thick skin (mind you, some people that have messeged me don't as
> much, and are still upset about your attacks and were in tears),
>

Oh yes, about that. The allegations. Since there have been only two other
problematic cases with users in the past week, I'm confident I can pinpoint
the relevant threads.

Exhibit A:

>>> A day or two ago I dared criticize GIMP [...] and that alexlg guy came
off the ropes so hard I was literally in tears over it. Just wanted to tell
you how validating it was to see you jousting over the exact same ground
with him just a few days earlier.

This is this very thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9vneh8/gimp_2108_released/e9ex8sl/

There was a quite justified complaint that text layers are hard to use in
GIMP, which I readily agreed with. Nevertheless, this user came to say that
lack of maturity of that feature is present because of GIMP team's "mindset
of "you don't need it" and "we don't like it"". The harshest thing I said
in response was point out evidence of the contrary, then saying "Facts...
Always such an inconvenient thing, isn't it? :)".

I'd love to see here the cause of alleged tears or coming hard off the
ropes.

And Exhibit B:

>>> [...] He even went so far as to mention me by name in another thread
entirely, basically calling me a whiny baby, once enough people had
dogpiled that he was forced to slightly change his stance on something.
Even if you win, you lose...

This is this very thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/9wrgwp/whats_new_in_gimp_2108_by_davis_media_design_this/

Essentially, someone got steamed up because of having to spend shocking 3
minutes on "wading through a sea of jargon, buzzwords, mansplaining, and
patting yourselves on the back" which is how this person characterized the
official 2.10.8 announcement.

"mention me by name in another thread entirely" is actually about the very
same thread --
https://www.reddit.com/r/GIMP/comments/9wrgwp/whats_new_in_gimp_2108_by_davis_media_design_this/e9oe05x/
-- about the very same topic: providing a shorter list of changes between
versions.

And here is the "basically calling me a whiny baby" quote:

"I don't see any way in Gitlab to view all files at the time of tagging a
release, but I'm not sure if having to scroll through changes for the next
version first [in an updated NEWS file] would give anyone a heart attack,
save for our friend /u/Unchayned  here."

There are facts, and then there are interpretations. I don't think our
interpretations will ever match, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Alex


> and I don't care what you say and do if you take responsibility for your
> actions-- which you have to do since you not only speak for yourself only,
> but for other people as well.
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2018, 13:22 Alexandre Prokoudine <
> alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Niccolo,
>>
>> There is a certain thing I'm rather horrible at - trying to a have a
>> conversation with people who come with preconceptions about something they
>> are not qualified to make judgments of and unwilling to learn before
>> drawing conclusions.
>>
>> When stumbling upon your message that by not setting dates to releases we
>> tell users to "f*** off" (which you later edited away), I should have kept
>> my mouth shut. Nor should I have replied to your continuos verbal abuse
>> containing expletives.
>>
>> I am truly and genuinely sorry about that.
>>
>> Alexandre
>>
>> чт, 15 нояб. 2018 г., 14:48 Niccolo Brogi :
>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> TLDR:
>>> Alexandre attacks GIMP critics around the internet implying that he's a
>>> developer of GIMP and represents GIMP, using language and doing things that
>>> are completely inappropriate for his (self-proclaimed?) role, which makes
>>> the whole GIMP team look like crap for no reason.
>>>
>>> FULL:
>>>
>>> A little bit of a backstory (which you can skip if in a hurry): I've had
>>> a couple of unpleasant exchanges with Alexandre. Our latest exchange is
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9vneh8/gimp_2108_released/e9doqjq
>>> from the Reddit thread at
>>> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9vneh8/gimp_2108_released/.