Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with distributed project using blessed repository workflow where number of contributors range from few to few hundred. We're doing a user survey, so if a project has 200 contributors, it will statistically have 10 times more survey participants than a 20 contributors project. Sure, statistics don't always work, but if we don't trust statistics, we shouldn't do a survey. Third, no other in matrix form. Well, forcing the user to chose between existing options is not necessarily bad IMHO. It at least avoids free-form answers like I'm doing almost exactly option b) but I don't call it this way so I didn't tick b). -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
[RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
[I'm sorry for breaking the chain, but I have accidentally hit Reply, instead of Reply To All, and missed sending reply to git mailing list] On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with distributed project using blessed repository workflow where number of contributors range from few to few hundred. We're doing a user survey, so if a project has 200 contributors, it will statistically have 10 times more survey participants than a 20 contributors project. Sure, statistics don't always work, but if we don't trust statistics, we shouldn't do a survey. I always worry if the set of survey participants is representative... Third, no other in matrix form. Well, forcing the user to chose between existing options is not necessarily bad IMHO. It at least avoids free-form answers like I'm doing almost exactly option b) but I don't call it this way so I didn't tick b). There is another issue: there are many, many questions which are currently in multiple answers form (e.g. transports, or tools), some of them with other, please specify, which are in the same boat wrt. precision / accuracy as discussed workflow question. So, NAK for this year survey, we can think about and discuss it for the next one (if there would be interest in having one). -- Jakub Narebski -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Michael J Gruber g...@drmicha.warpmail.net wrote: [...] Other version control systems: I think the list needs to be sorted alphabetically, it's really long. I have split this list in two: other centralized VCS and other distributed VCS; both have other field. (You could also reduce and offer a text field other.) I tried to include all important VCS. There is always problem with analyzing responses from other field... Resources: I wouldn't put git-scm.com and the pro-git book into the same item. git-scm.com was supposed to be the git community website (and also the reference on git), and the fact that it looks like a pro-git book sales platform is a different matter. Good catch. Originally there was Git Community Book on Git Homepage, and Pro Git had its own homepage; now they are folded together. I have slightly rewritten the description to account for this. An interesting question would be: What is the first source you consider Git?, or even: What is the Git homepage?... Really, getting input on what the Git homepage should be like would be nice, but not comparable to previous surveys. As you can see this year survey is [almost] bereft of essay free-form questions. It is because of difficulties and time needed to analyze such responses. So I don't think such question will be included this year. I think it is better discussion for git mailing list or something... -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones) Git User's Survey 2012 on Survs.com. The test channel is https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4 If it's still time, it would be nice to add a question on the kind of workflow people use. E.g. Which workflow do you use? (never / rarely / often / always) Centralized workflow (everyone pushes and pulls to the same shared repository). One-repository per developer (people push to their own public repository, and pull from other user's public repository) (and perhaps intermediates). -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones) Git User's Survey 2012 on Survs.com. The test channel is https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4 If it's still time, it would be nice to add a question on the kind of workflow people use. E.g. Which workflow do you use? (never / rarely / often / always) Centralized workflow (everyone pushes and pulls to the same shared repository). One-repository per developer (people push to their own public repository, and pull from other user's public repository) You were not the only one to ask for question about workflows used; Junio also asked for something similar. I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question: #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you participate? [ ] single developer, only private repository (no interaction) [ ] centralized workflow (push to common repository) [ ] branched centralized (push to different branches in common repository) [ ] peer-to-peer workflow (all repositories roughly equal) [ ] integration-manager workflow (maintainer pulls/applies patches to blessed repository)) [ ] dictator and lieutenants workflow (hierarchical workflow) [ ] using collaborative code review tool, e.g. Gerrit [ ] other workflow, please explai I was also thinking about adding merge vs rebase question, but it is direction orthogonal to above, so maybe as separate question... -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question: #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you participate? If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish between X% people use workflow W all the time, and X% people use workflow W from time to time. The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_, so never/rarely/sometimes/often would be IMHO inappropriate. Besides matrix type question cannot have (on Survs.com) other, explain... -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question: #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you participate? If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish between X% people use workflow W all the time, and X% people use workflow W from time to time. -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question: #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you participate? If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish between X% people use workflow W all the time, and X% people use workflow W from time to time. The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_, Yes, but people are usually involved in multiple projects. Someone involved in 10 different distributed projects and sometimes contributing to 1 centralized would count 1 for each. -- Matthieu Moy http://www-verimag.imag.fr/~moy/ -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:35 PM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Matthieu Moy matthieu@grenoble-inp.fr wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have therefore added the following multiple-choice question: #19. What git workflow(s) is used by projects in which development you participate? If we want to have an idea of which workflows are the most commonly used, just a binary answer may be insufficient. We can't distinguish between X% people use workflow W all the time, and X% people use workflow W from time to time. The problem is that those workflows are used by _projects_ not _people_, Yes, but people are usually involved in multiple projects. Someone involved in 10 different distributed projects and sometimes contributing to 1 centralized would count 1 for each. , True. So responses wouldn't tell us the full story. But first, never/rarely/sometimes/often/always doesn't fit IMHO here. Second, the situation is more complicated: one can be actively involved in 1 distributed project with 200+ contributors via Gerrit, often contribute to 1 centralized project with 15-25 contributors, and rarely interact with distributed project using blessed repository workflow where number of contributors range from few to few hundred. Too complicated for survey IMHO. Third, no other in matrix form. -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Junio C Hamano gits...@pobox.com wrote: Jakub Narębski jna...@gmail.com writes: I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones) Git User's Survey 2012 on Survs.com. The test channel is https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4 Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted. I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from 24 September to 14 October 2012. The current premium unlimited plan, a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October. I don't know if it would be prolonged; it usually was. As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to git account as a member with admin rights. Thanks for getting the ball rolling again this year. A few comments. #5. Given that 1.8.0 will ship on Oct 21st, this may want to include 1.8.0 as well. Thanks for an information. Done. #7. Stop backup, and leave that to 'other (please specify)'. Also, Frontend to other SCM feels somewhat out of place. It would be interesting to see how work vs personal and native vs foreign are correlated, for example, but this format does not let you measure it. I have split this question in two: #7. What kind of projects etc. do you use Git for? #8. I use Git for (check all that apply): where the first question is about work..private direction, and the second one is now reducted to code, documentation, etc. But now that I think of it, perhaps it might be interesting to put those in the matrix form, where one direction would be work vs personal, other code vs foreign. #12. I am not sure why EGit applies and Eclipse doesn't. Is it like saying vc.el applies but Emacs doesn't (the former is the interface, the latter is 'the other side' the interface connects git to)? If so it makes sense to me, but if EGit is the only interface used to connect to Eclipse, perhaps it does not help people who answer these questions to say this. I have reworked / rewritten the description to this question. What I wanted here is to not add editor/IDE which is used only to edit files and create commit messages via core.editor, but without any Git integration. #13. This list is intelligible, at least to me. git add but not git rm? What is incremental add / commit? git add -p? Is it worth asking about update-index? It may be simpler to condense the questionaire down to the following three questions: - Do you use command line tool to build commit? [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never] - When you do, do you build the next commit incrementally with git add [-p] and run git commit without the -a option? [Always/Often/Sometimes/Never] - What do you use if you do not commit with the command line? GUI? IDE/Editor? FileManager? Web? I have split this question in two: #14. What tool do you use to create new commits? #15. How do you create new commits? The latter is about incremental commits etc. I wonder if it would not make this survey too complicated to add the tool vs how (i.e. rows from 14th rows, columns from 15th rows) to complete 3rd dimension ;-) #21. (nit) Isn't ProGit one of the printed books (or ebooks)? I can add other than above. I think the questions are designed to gauge the individual users (proficiency, background, etc.), but I think it would be interesting to see what kind of projects they are using Git for, but not in vague terms like #7 does. Even within work projects - code, it would be enlightening to see a bit more details, e.g. Are they building phone app? Controlling nuclear reactors? Bioinformatics? This is something hard to ask for... well, we could always use free form question, but then the problem is with analyzing the data, even if we don't get 10k answers like in last year. How big is their team? Do any of you have a proposal for sensible ranges? For example - 1 - a few - several - 10-50 - 50-150 - more than 150 I think multiple choice would fit better here, with troubles analysing and explaining how to format free-form, and people participating in different projects. How is the project structured, e.g. a central repository where everybody pushes into? Workers push to submission branches that are reviewed, approved and merged by the official committers? Use of continuous integration? Issue tracker integration? Hmm... the question about workflows used could be interesting. BTW. I have added to :kinds of tools questions, e.g. about CI, so this topic is more covered... I think. -- Jakub Narębski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Felipe Contreras felipe.contre...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Jakub Narebski jna...@gmail.com wrote: P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey? I haven't seen any news regarding the 2012 survey. I'm interested in running the survey this time, but I would like to know what that entails :) I think the surveys should continue. I have created short (well, at least shorter than previous ones) Git User's Survey 2012 on Survs.com. The test channel is https://www.survs.com/survey/J87I3PDBU4 Note that all answers in this channel would be deleted. I was thinking about running this survey for about three weeks, from 24 September to 14 October 2012. The current premium unlimited plan, a gift from Survs.com admins, is valid till 26 October. I don't know if it would be prolonged; it usually was. As to what is involved in running survey: if we want and would be able to use Survs.com, one should register there, and I can add them to git account as a member with admin rights. -- Jakub Narebski -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [RFC] Questions for Git User's Survey 2011
Hi, On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Jakub Narebski jna...@gmail.com wrote: P.S. Would you be interested in running the next survey? I haven't seen any news regarding the 2012 survey. I'm interested in running the survey this time, but I would like to know what that entails :) I think the surveys should continue. Cheers. -- Felipe Contreras -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe git in the body of a message to majord...@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
