### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

On Thu, Aug 12 2021, Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > Repro case is something like > * Here is a source or files > * Compile like this > * Look at the generated Core...observe silly thing happening Tried my best here: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20237 Any help on this would be much appreciated! -- Regards, Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### RE: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Hi Mike Repro case is something like * Here is a source or files * Compile like this * Look at the generated Core...observe silly thing happening Evidence of importance could be as simple as "in my application I'm seeing a lot of these redundant dictionaries being built for no reason". Or, stronger "this is slowing my application down by 5%". TL;DR: is this just a curiosity that you noticed, or is it something that matters to you, and if so why? | Is there any way to see how far evaluates the dictionary construction to be | able to match on that unboxed tuple? Not sure what you mean here, but once we have a repro case we can discuss. Worth opening a ticket too -- email is easily lost. Thanks Simon | -Original Message- | From: Michael Sperber | Sent: 12 August 2021 10:15 | To: Simon Peyton Jones | Cc: Sebastian Graf ; glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org | Subject: Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries | | | On Mon, Aug 09 2021, Simon Peyton Jones wrote: | | > Could you offer a small repro case, with a pointer to evidence that it | matters in practice, and open a ticket? | | I'll try my best, but I'm unsure how I would generate evidence. Could you | give me a hint? | | Is there any way to see how far evaluates the dictionary construction to be | able to match on that unboxed tuple? | | -- | Regards, | Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

On Mon, Aug 09 2021, Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > Could you offer a small repro case, with a pointer to evidence that it > matters in practice, and open a ticket? I'll try my best, but I'm unsure how I would generate evidence. Could you give me a hint? Is there any way to see how far evaluates the dictionary construction to be able to match on that unboxed tuple? -- Regards, Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### RE: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Hi Mike | The right-hand argument of <+ leads to a dictionary construction that is a | proof of a certain property, but the dictionary itself ends up being dead, | like so: | |case $w$dOpCon_r2kGJ ... |of |{ (# ww1_s27L3 #) -> ... } | ^ | never used GHC needs to figure out that $w$dOpCon_r2kGJ always terminates, without throwing an exception etc. That can't be too hard, and Sebastian Graf has thought about it quite a bit. Could you offer a small repro case, with a pointer to evidence that it matters in practice, and open a ticket? Thanks Simon | -Original Message- | From: Glasgow-haskell-users On | Behalf Of Michael Sperber | Sent: 06 August 2021 14:06 | To: glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org | Subject: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries | | [You don't often get email from sper...@deinprogramm.de. Learn why this is | important at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification.] | | I have another optimization problem. ConCat includes this definition: | | (<+) :: Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r r <+ Entail (Sub Dict) = r | | The right-hand argument of <+ leads to a dictionary construction that is a | proof of a certain property, but the dictionary itself ends up being dead, | like so: | |case $w$dOpCon_r2kGJ ... |of |{ (# ww1_s27L3 #) -> ... } | ^ | never used | | Yet, ghc (8.10.4) never elides this code. (I'm naively assuming because of | the unboxed tuple, but actually have no clue.) | | Is there any chance of convincing ghc of erasing the dictionary | construction? | | Help would be much appreciated! | | -- | Regards, | Mike | | ___ | Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list | Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org | https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskel | l.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fglasgow-haskell- | usersdata=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C301c6f15cc1142fc645908d95 | 8dc725a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637638526127543532%7CUn | known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX | VCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000sdata=fh2YiJ5NuDMPzpzzxsAL0MyceMFH0MuveNgvTo7ZNow%3D | mp;reserved=0 ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Hi all, On 09/08/2021 16:31, Brandon Allbery wrote: We haven't figured out what they did, but the other day we had someone in #haskell with an infinite loop evaluating a dictionary. So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. I managed to do something like this once: I was using type level natural numbers to parameterize my type, and through carelessness my dictionary for `T n` depended on the dictionary for `T (Succ n)`. My heap profile was a triangular wedge with space taken up by dictionaries growing linearly without bound. Claude -- https://mathr.co.uk ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

They didn't show code (this is sadly common), so we had only speculation. :( On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:56 AM Simon Peyton Jones wrote: > > . So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. > > That should not happen. > > > > Except in the case of single-method dictionaries like > > class C a where op :: a -> a > > In these cases the “dictionary” is represented by a newtype, like this > > newtype C a = MkC (a->a) > > > > Then you could say > > instance C Int where > > op = bottom > > > > and now a (C Int) dictionary is simply bottom. > > > > It would be easy to change this decision, and use a data constructor even > for single-method classes. Some programs would become slightly less > efficient, but things would be a bit more uniform. If there was a real > advantage to doing this, it’d definitely be worth measuring the perf cost > (if any). > > > > Simon > > > > *From:* Glasgow-haskell-users *On > Behalf Of *Brandon Allbery > *Sent:* 09 August 2021 16:32 > *To:* Tom Smeding > *Cc:* GHC users ; > sper...@deinprogramm.de > *Subject:* Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries > > > > We haven't figured out what they did, but the other day we had someone in > #haskell with an infinite loop evaluating a dictionary. So apparently it is > possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. > > > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:27 AM Tom Smeding wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > > > > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > > > > > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > > > > > > I assume no, but here the dictionary is embedded as a field in the GADT, > right? So if the data value is bottom, there is not even a dictionary to be > found, let alone not-bottom. > > > > > > This assumes that the Dict in `Entail (Sub Dict)` is a GADT like > > > > > > Dict :: Con b => Dict something > > > > > > where the Con dictionary is contained in the GADT. Remember that in Core, > dictionaries are values, and there is no difference between => and ->. > > > > > > - Tom > > > > > > > > Original Message > > > > On 9 Aug 2021, 15:24, Michael Sperber < sper...@deinprogramm.de> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for thinking about this one! > > > > On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding wrote: > > > > > Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? > > > > > After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom > > > > > (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot > > > > > succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. > > > > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > > > > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > > > > > I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub > > > > > Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary > > > > > construction will be elided. > > > > Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it > > > > agreed with your first comment: > > > > src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error: > > > > • Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of ‘r’ > > > > from the context: Con a > > > > bound by the type signature for: > > > > (<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r > > > > at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46 > > > > • In the expression: r > > > > In an equation for ‘<+’: r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r > > > > • Relevant bindings include > > > > r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1) > > > > (<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r > > > > (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3) > > > > | > > > > 190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r > > > > | ^ > > > > Other ideas welcome! > > > > -- > > > > Regards, > > > > Mike > > > > ___ > > > > Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list > > > > Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org > > > > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fg

### RE: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

> . So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. That should not happen. Except in the case of single-method dictionaries like class C a where op :: a -> a In these cases the "dictionary" is represented by a newtype, like this newtype C a = MkC (a->a) Then you could say instance C Int where op = bottom and now a (C Int) dictionary is simply bottom. It would be easy to change this decision, and use a data constructor even for single-method classes. Some programs would become slightly less efficient, but things would be a bit more uniform. If there was a real advantage to doing this, it'd definitely be worth measuring the perf cost (if any). Simon From: Glasgow-haskell-users On Behalf Of Brandon Allbery Sent: 09 August 2021 16:32 To: Tom Smeding Cc: GHC users ; sper...@deinprogramm.de Subject: Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries We haven't figured out what they did, but the other day we had someone in #haskell with an infinite loop evaluating a dictionary. So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:27 AM Tom Smeding mailto:x...@tomsmeding.com>> wrote: Hi Mike, > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? I assume no, but here the dictionary is embedded as a field in the GADT, right? So if the data value is bottom, there is not even a dictionary to be found, let alone not-bottom. This assumes that the Dict in `Entail (Sub Dict)` is a GADT like Dict :: Con b => Dict something where the Con dictionary is contained in the GADT. Remember that in Core, dictionaries are values, and there is no difference between => and ->. - Tom Original Message On 9 Aug 2021, 15:24, Michael Sperber < sper...@deinprogramm.de<mailto:sper...@deinprogramm.de>> wrote: Thanks for thinking about this one! On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding mailto:x...@tomsmeding.com>> wrote: > Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? > After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom > (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot > succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub > Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary > construction will be elided. Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it agreed with your first comment: src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error: * Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of 'r' from the context: Con a bound by the type signature for: (<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46 * In the expression: r In an equation for '<+': r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r * Relevant bindings include r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1) (<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3) | 190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r | ^ Other ideas welcome! -- Regards, Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org<mailto:Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fglasgow-haskell-users=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C7bf3769704884ed6592e08d95b4aeb26%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637641199636853840%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=ix06XQPvpu%2B1PLzoc5rRQM6cMv8yPF6o87uVwD0sUwQ%3D=0> ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org<mailto:Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmail.haskell.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fglasgow-haskell-users=04%7C01%7Csimonpj%40microsoft.com%7C7bf3769704884ed6592e08d95b4aeb26%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637641199636863837%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=sQDTBnklNv7YLRvhiY5CEtbZgcZT8p7RR%2Bw57sCqFJk%3D=0> -- brandon s allbery kf8nh allber...@gmail.com<mailto:allber...@gmail.com> ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

We haven't figured out what they did, but the other day we had someone in #haskell with an infinite loop evaluating a dictionary. So apparently it is possible for a dictionary to be bottom somehow. On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 11:27 AM Tom Smeding wrote: > Hi Mike, > > > > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > > > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > > > I assume no, but here the dictionary is embedded as a field in the GADT, > right? So if the data value is bottom, there is not even a dictionary to be > found, let alone not-bottom. > > > This assumes that the Dict in `Entail (Sub Dict)` is a GADT like > > > Dict :: Con b => Dict something > > > where the Con dictionary is contained in the GADT. Remember that in Core, > dictionaries are values, and there is no difference between => and ->. > > > - Tom > > > > Original Message > > On 9 Aug 2021, 15:24, Michael Sperber < sper...@deinprogramm.de> wrote: > > > Thanks for thinking about this one! > > On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding wrote: > > > Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? > > > After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom > > > (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot > > > succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. > > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > > > I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub > > > Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary > > > construction will be elided. > > Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it > > agreed with your first comment: > > src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error: > > • Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of ‘r’ > > from the context: Con a > > bound by the type signature for: > > (<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r > > at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46 > > • In the expression: r > > In an equation for ‘<+’: r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r > > • Relevant bindings include > > r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1) > > (<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r > > (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3) > > | > > 190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r > > | ^ > > Other ideas welcome! > > -- > > Regards, > > Mike > > ___ > > Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list > > Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org > > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users > > ___ > Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list > Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users > -- brandon s allbery kf8nh allber...@gmail.com ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Hi Mike, > But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code > that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? I assume no, but here the dictionary is embedded as a field in the GADT, right? So if the data value is bottom, there is not even a dictionary to be found, let alone not-bottom. This assumes that the Dict in `Entail (Sub Dict)` is a GADT like Dict :: Con b => Dict something where the Con dictionary is contained in the GADT. Remember that in Core, dictionaries are values, and there is no difference between => and ->. - Tom Original Message On 9 Aug 2021, 15:24, Michael Sperber < sper...@deinprogramm.de> wrote: Thanks for thinking about this one! On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding wrote: > Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? > After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom > (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot > succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub > Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary > construction will be elided. Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it agreed with your first comment: src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error: • Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of ‘r’ from the context: Con a bound by the type signature for: (<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46 • In the expression: r In an equation for ‘<+’: r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r • Relevant bindings include r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1) (<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3) | 190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r | ^ Other ideas welcome! -- Regards, Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Thanks for thinking about this one! On Fri, Aug 06 2021, Tom Smeding wrote: > Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? > After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom > (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot > succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. But wouldn't that imply that ghc can build dictionary-construction code that evaluates to bottom? Can that happen? > I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub > Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary > construction will be elided. Thanks for the hint! ghc gives me this unfortunately, implying that it agreed with your first comment: src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:29: error: • Could not deduce: Con b arising from a use of ‘r’ from the context: Con a bound by the type signature for: (<+) :: forall a b r. Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r at src/ConCat/Category.hs:189:1-46 • In the expression: r In an equation for ‘<+’: r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r • Relevant bindings include r :: Con b => r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:1) (<+) :: (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r (bound at src/ConCat/Category.hs:190:3) | 190 | r <+ ~(Entail (Sub Dict)) = r | ^ Other ideas welcome! -- Regards, Mike ___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users

### Re: Avoiding construction of dead dictionaries

Would it not be unsound for ghc to elide dictionary construction here? After all, the right-hand side might actually be a bottom (e.g. undefined) at run-time, in which case the pattern match cannot succeed according to the semantics of Haskell. I suspect that if you make the pattern match lazy (i.e. ~(Entail (Sub Dict))) or ignore the argument altogether (i.e. _), dictionary construction will be elided. - Tom Original Message On 6 Aug 2021, 15:06, Michael Sperber wrote: > I have another optimization problem. ConCat includes this definition: > > (<+) :: Con a => (Con b => r) -> (a |- b) -> r > r <+ Entail (Sub Dict) = r > > The right-hand argument of <+ leads to a dictionary construction that is > a proof of a certain property, but the dictionary itself ends up being > dead, like so: > > case $w$dOpCon_r2kGJ ... > of > { (# ww1_s27L3 #) -> ... } > ^ > never used > > Yet, ghc (8.10.4) never elides this code. (I'm naively assuming because > of the unboxed tuple, but actually have no clue.) > > Is there any chance of convincing ghc of erasing the dictionary > construction? > > Help would be much appreciated! > > -- > Regards, > Mike > > ___ > Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list > Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users___ Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/glasgow-haskell-users