Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-08 Thread Tom Buskey
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: I've already heard of people running an emulator on top of an emulator inside of a VM solely to keep some old application alive. One or two years ago I was at a small technical college someplace and the professors

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-08 Thread Tom Buskey
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Benjamin Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: Vernor Vinge (of technological singularity fame), in his fiction novel /A Deepness In The Sky/, posited the job role of software archaeologist. Given enough time (say, 100s or 1000s of years), we're going to get to

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-08 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
Because they thought they wouldn't have to find a new solution to replace the old. And the new one won't last as long. A very Unix Philosophy type of answer. AND because the current solution did everything they wanted it to do (run the payroll)...another Unix-like reason. md

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-08 Thread Bill McGonigle
On 03/07/2010 11:01 AM, Jon 'maddog' Hall wrote: o every hardware support contract received a letter o every software support contract received a letter There are real advantages to knowing who is using your software. The Fedora people have excellent academic debates about using software

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-08 Thread Benjamin Scott
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: In any statistical analysis there is the answer, then the statistical range and deviations, then the probability that the answer and statistical range and deviations are accurate ... ... which is more commonly stated as

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-07 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
Free Software doesn't mean it comes without costs, just the costs are different than a license fee (and a support fee, and an upgrade fee, and...). If nobody is willing to invest any effort in the stuff they use, they shouldn't be surprised when it disappears. Playing devil's advocate again, if

DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread Benjamin Scott
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: I thought that this project added to DECnet's life, and that DEC/Compaq/HP would have to be crazy to object. ... http://www.csamuel.org/2010/02/19/decnet-now-orphaned-in-the-linux-kernel-for-2-6-33 That seems more like it

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread David Hardy
Ben said this: ... trying to get everyone's bridges and routers configured to properly support IPX, NetBEUI, AppleTalk, DECnet, etc., etc., etc. My apologies to maddog and other ex-DECers, but I say good riddance. Being of Ancient Daze myself, and a former DECoid, I well remember having to

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
Ben, That seems more like it was due to a total lack of interest. Could it simply be that most everyone has moved to Internet Protocol now? I agree to a point that the current orphaning of the code in the kernel is probably due to a total lack of interest, and that there is a good possibility

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
Ben, One other comment: I think widespread adoption of IP has tended to eliminate less-used network transports. Why go with something weird, proprietary, and expensive when you could go with what everybody is using, for free? I agree. But I also remember that in 1984 DEC was still waiting for

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread Benjamin Scott
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Jon 'maddog' Hall mad...@li.org wrote: But in walking back to my house from breakfast today, it occurred to me that the average user of DECnet Linux probably does not read the DECnet Linux mailing lists. You think neither of them are subscribed? ;-)

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread Jon 'maddog' Hall
I've already heard of people running an emulator on top of an emulator inside of a VM solely to keep some old application alive. One or two years ago I was at a small technical college someplace and the professors (knowing I had worked for DEC) offered to show me an ancient PDP-11 running RSX-11

Re: DECnet and other dead technologies (was: Linux for cloud computing)

2010-03-06 Thread David Hardy
Oh, does THAT bring back the golden oldie memories! My first-ever paid IT gig was working with, yes, a PDP-11 running RSX-11 (for CAD/CAM engineering apps) and a microVAX running, I think, VAX/VMS 3.5. Then, off to DEC itself, in Marlborough and The Mill. No Linux for me until twelve years