Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-22 Thread Tom Buskey 
XFCE has a GUI settings program I use.  Gnome-shell (Fedora's native GUI)
has stuff too.

I think most Linux desktops are self administered & the GUI is ok.  I
imagine there are few IT departments managing many (> 50) Linux desktops
like in the days of Unix workstations.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 3:04 PM Shawn O'Shea  wrote:

> A lot of stuff in the UI these days is controlled from the UI (of course
> there are also command line tools and such as well). Is there a keyboard or
> input settings panel? Pop is based on GNOME, so you may also want to
> install GNOME tweaks and look at the settings in there.
>
> -Shawn
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:52 AM [email protected] <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me
>> some decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping
>> is pointing to the wrong file.
>>
>> Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff
>> to read.
>>
>> I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.
>>
>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>> On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
>>> FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.
>>> They stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to
>>> learn how to reset them to default.
>>>
>>> After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>>> a
>>> nd
>>> look for layout,
>>>
>>> I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop
>>> vertical to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S < [email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
 work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
 difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?

 On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 [email protected] <
 [email protected]> wrote:

> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
> Knoppix CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
> had to do that for Linux.
>
> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
> making a live disk or two.
>
> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
> Getting there though.
>
>
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness < [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
>> CD, if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>
>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>> misconfiguration can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under
>> different software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
>> reputation for being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of
>> hardware. But if System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's
>> possible no other OS will be happy with them.
>>
>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>
>>  -- jmcg
>>
> ___
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>
 ___
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>>> ___
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-22 Thread Shawn O'Shea 
A lot of stuff in the UI these days is controlled from the UI (of course
there are also command line tools and such as well). Is there a keyboard or
input settings panel? Pop is based on GNOME, so you may also want to
install GNOME tweaks and look at the settings in there.

-Shawn

On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:52 AM [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:

> This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me
> some decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping
> is pointing to the wrong file.
>
> Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff
> to read.
>
> I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>>
>> +1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
>> FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.  They
>> stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to learn
>> how to reset them to default.
>>
>> After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>> a nd
>> look for layout,
>>
>> I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop vertical
>> to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S < [email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
>>> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
>>> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 [email protected] <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
 Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
 Knoppix CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
 had to do that for Linux.

 Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
 making a live disk or two.

 Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
 Getting there though.



 Get BlueMail for Android 
 On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness < [email protected]> wrote:
>
> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
> CD, if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>
> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
> misconfiguration can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under
> different software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
> reputation for being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of
> hardware. But if System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's
> possible no other OS will be happy with them.
>
> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>
>  -- jmcg
>
 ___
 gnhlug-discuss mailing list
 [email protected]
 http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/

>>> ___
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>>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-22 Thread [email protected] 
This is awesome stuff.  Thanks!  That Arch Linux link is great.  Gives me some 
decent reading, and may lead to an answer.  I suspect that the mapping is 
pointing to the wrong file.

Picked up a thumb drive, so have a couple of things to try, and new stuff to 
read.

I'll make a USB boot drive and at least check that out first.

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 22, 2022, 11:03 AM, at 11:03 AM, Tom Buskey  wrote:
>+1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard
>removed.
>FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.
>They
>stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to
>learn
>how to reset them to default.
>
>After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
>https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
>a
>nd
>look for layout,
>
>I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop
>vertical
>to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.
>
>
>On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S
>
>wrote:
>
>> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't
>even
>> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.
>Is it
>> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 [email protected] <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using
>Knoppix
>>> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never
>had to do
>>> that for Linux.
>>>
>>> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including
>making
>>> a live disk or two.
>>>
>>> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.
>Getting
>>> there though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>>> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:

 For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a
>live CD,
 if thumb drives aren't laying around already.

 Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>misconfiguration
 can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
 software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a
>reputation for
 being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But
>if
 System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no
>other OS
 will be happy with them.

 Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
 https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/

  -- jmcg

>>> ___
>>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-22 Thread Tom Buskey 
+1 on the hardware if the keys don't work with the USB keyboard removed.
FWIW, the old Gateway anykey keyboards could remap keys internally.  They
stayed mapped even if you plugged it into another system.  I had to learn
how to reset them to default.

After that, Arch linux has a great wiki that applies to many linuxen
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Linux_console/Keyboard_configuration
a nd
look for layout,

I use Fedora with xfce and use both keyboards.  I have my laptop vertical
to use its screen w/ my desktop setup.


On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 7:33 PM Malcolm S 
wrote:

> If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
> work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
> difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 [email protected] <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix
>> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do
>> that for Linux.
>>
>> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making
>> a live disk or two.
>>
>> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting
>> there though.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get BlueMail for Android 
>> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>>>
>>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD,
>>> if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>>
>>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
>>> can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>>> software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
>>> being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>>> System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
>>> will be happy with them.
>>>
>>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>>
>>>  -- jmcg
>>>
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
> ___
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread Malcolm S 
If your normal key sequence to get into the BIOS boot menu doesn't even
work, that sounds pretty conclusively like a hardware issue to me.  Is it
difficult to swap out the keyboard, in this laptop?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 19:24 [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix
> CD'S for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do
> that for Linux.
>
> Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making a
> live disk or two.
>
> Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting
> there though.
>
>
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>>
>> For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD,
>> if thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>>
>> Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
>> can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>> software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
>> being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>> System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
>> will be happy with them.
>>
>> Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>> https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>>
>>  -- jmcg
>>
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
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>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread [email protected] 
Just need to go to a store to pick one up.  Yes, I remember using Knoppix CD'S 
for checking and sometimes repairing Windows problems, never had to do that for 
Linux. 

Once I get a thumb drive, I can try a couple of things, including making a live 
disk or two.

Laptop is only a few years old, so it's not quite a fossil yet.  Getting there 
though.



⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 7:11 PM, at 7:11 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live
>CD, if
>thumb drives aren't laying around already.
>
>Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software
>misconfiguration
>can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
>software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation
>for
>being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
>System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other
>OS
>will be happy with them.
>
>Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
>https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/
>
> -- jmcg
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread Jim McGinness 
For sufficiently old fossils, it might be easier to boot from a live CD, if
thumb drives aren't laying around already.

Distinguishing between a failed keyboard and a software misconfiguration
can be helped by seeing the keyboard is not failed under different
software. Knoppix distributions (at least in the past) had a reputation for
being very good at autoconfiguring a wide variety of hardware. But if
System 76 laptops are sufficiently specialized, it's possible no other OS
will be happy with them.

Should I assume you're already aware of this page? -
https://support.system76.com/articles/pop-live-disk/

 -- jmcg
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread Malcolm S 
Sounds like a lot of these symptoms could be explained by a failed keyboard.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022, 16:40 [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:

> NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a space.
>
> Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop
> keyboard.
>
> /etc/default/keyboard states
> XKBLAYOUT=us
> BACKSPACE=guess
>
> Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The Logitech
> has more keys.
>
> Get BlueMail for Android 
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-12-21 15:32, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>
>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>>
>>
>> I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>> external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>> laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad, which
>> can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)
>>
>> -Ken
>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread [email protected] 
14 laptop keys are inop.  All others work and are mapped correctly.  I used 
their English (US) keyboard.  They show keys that are not on my laptop and the 
layout is not even close to my laptop keyboard.

There's no gconf on my system.  That's more keys than I thought.  Could be a 
connector, I suppose.

Typed $ xinput
Under virtual core keyboard I have AT Translated Set 2 keyboard.  ID=15, slave 
keyboard (3)

Finally a clue.  How to change to a different set?  Could be it's on an 
alternate set?

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 4:41 PM, at 4:41 PM, "[email protected]" 
 wrote:
>NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a
>space.
>
>Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop
>keyboard. 
>
>/etc/default/keyboard states
>XKBLAYOUT=us
>BACKSPACE=guess
>
>Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The
>Logitech has more keys.
>
>⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​
>
>On Dec 21, 2022, 4:16 PM, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio 
>wrote:
>>On 2022-12-21 15:32, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>>
>>I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>>external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>>laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad,
>>which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of
>OS.)
>>
>>-Ken
>
>
>
>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread [email protected] 
NumLock doesn't seem to matter.  I can't type the letter b, or use a space.

Can't get into BIOS because ESC key doesn't work, at least with laptop 
keyboard. 

/etc/default/keyboard states
XKBLAYOUT=us
BACKSPACE=guess

Nothing about how many keys.  I have 102 keys on the laptop.  The Logitech has 
more keys.

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 4:16 PM, at 4:16 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
>On 2022-12-21 15:32, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.
>
>I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your
>external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on
>laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad,
>which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)
>
>-Ken
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread Ken D'Ambrosio 

On 2022-12-21 15:32, [email protected] wrote:


My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.


I would wonder if this could mean your numlock is on -- either on your 
external keyboard, or your internal.  Either way, I've seen numlock on 
laptops turn the right-hand side of the keyboard into a number pad, 
which can be really annoying to figure out.  (This irrespective of OS.)


-Ken___
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread [email protected] 
Good idea.  I'll have to get a thumb drive to try it out.

I think my fatal mistake was installing pop-os while my Logitech keyboard was 
installed.  It thinks it's the default keyboard, not the laptop keyboard.  At 
home, I always have a wireless mouse & keyboard set-up.  Going on the road, I 
don't want to carry that stuff.  I just don't seem to know where or how to find 
the appropriate configuration files anymore.  X11 files are basically empty.  
Basically haven't kept up with the more modern setups.  Systemd et. al.

My laptop keyboard works, at least many of the keys, but some don't.  Has to be 
a mapping thing.  The Logitech unifying receiver was unplugged but it is still 
using a Logitech keyboard mapping on my native keyboard.  Some letters don't 
type at all, others type some other character.  Some letters won't capitalize, 
but others do.  Of course you know that some of those characters are in my 
password, so it's annoying as all get out.

The System 76 keyboard program thinks I have a Logitech keyboard attached but 
it isn't.  I see no place to select your actual keyboard with X number of keys 
anymore.  Like 105 keys. This has been hidden from the user.  I don't like this 
at all.  I don't know where the capability is currently located.

Picking keyboards used to be relatively easy.  I realize this is making me 
sound even older, but, hey I am older, and with some luck I will continue to 
get older.

I'm just hoping that changing the default keyboard hasn't been removed.  So if 
someone knows where the heck a simple human readable keyboard config file is, 
please point me in the right direction, or tell me it isn't possible.  This 
stuff should be easy, if it isn't then something is truly wrong... 

⁣Get BlueMail for Android ​

On Dec 21, 2022, 2:21 PM, at 2:21 PM, Jim McGinness  wrote:
>Fossil here, too. I sympathize.
>
>I'm not sure what exact problem you are experiencing, but one way to
>start
>to get a handle on it is to create a USB thumb drive with a "live"
>version
>of one or more other Linux distributions and try booting to it to see
>whether they get a reasonable keyboard configuration out-of-the-box.
>
>I have an old netbook where I mangled the keyboard connector, so it has
>to
>have an external keyboard to do anything.
>
>And there's also this possibility:
>https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator
>
> -- jmcg
>
>On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:21 PM Bruce Labitt
>
>wrote:
>
>> Feeling like a bit of a fossil and not knowing what files do what, or
>> where things are located.  Need to fix an obnoxious problem with a
>> keyboard and realize I just don't know even how to investigate this
>> anymore.  What are recommended sources for a modern overview of
>system
>> files, purposes and organization?
>>
>> Think my laptop now believes my Logitech keyboard is the default
>> keyboard.  This is bad, because it has a different number of keys and
>> the mapping is different.  This a royal pia.  I am typing with a
>mouse.
>> Even the space bar doesn't work.  Practically it makes a laptop into
>a
>> desktop system.  I don't even know where to start since a lot of the
>> Linux cheese moved, in the past 10 years.
>>
>> System76 Oryx 6 Pro laptop.  POPOS 22.04.
>>
>> Any tips or pointers to well written overviews on the modern
>> organization would be appreciated.  Perhaps I could learn enough to
>at
>> least know the correct search terms.
>>
>> TIA, Bruce
>>
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Re: Book or online source on modern Linux system files and organization

2022-12-21 Thread Jim McGinness 
Fossil here, too. I sympathize.

I'm not sure what exact problem you are experiencing, but one way to start
to get a handle on it is to create a USB thumb drive with a "live" version
of one or more other Linux distributions and try booting to it to see
whether they get a reasonable keyboard configuration out-of-the-box.

I have an old netbook where I mangled the keyboard connector, so it has to
have an external keyboard to do anything.

And there's also this possibility:
https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator

 -- jmcg

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:21 PM Bruce Labitt 
wrote:

> Feeling like a bit of a fossil and not knowing what files do what, or
> where things are located.  Need to fix an obnoxious problem with a
> keyboard and realize I just don't know even how to investigate this
> anymore.  What are recommended sources for a modern overview of system
> files, purposes and organization?
>
> Think my laptop now believes my Logitech keyboard is the default
> keyboard.  This is bad, because it has a different number of keys and
> the mapping is different.  This a royal pia.  I am typing with a mouse.
> Even the space bar doesn't work.  Practically it makes a laptop into a
> desktop system.  I don't even know where to start since a lot of the
> Linux cheese moved, in the past 10 years.
>
> System76 Oryx 6 Pro laptop.  POPOS 22.04.
>
> Any tips or pointers to well written overviews on the modern
> organization would be appreciated.  Perhaps I could learn enough to at
> least know the correct search terms.
>
> TIA, Bruce
>
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