Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-26 Thread Heather Brodeur
mike ledoux wrote: On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 08:44:59AM -0400, Paul Lussier wrote: Yes, but we don't have a good way of ensuring only one person gets a vote. Actually, I think this was discussed on the general mailing some time ago - I just can't find it. How about: If you want to

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-25 Thread Paul Lussier
Bruce Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder if those people are on the -org list? (Or have their eyes glassed over with yet another of the incorporation go-rounds) ;-) I'm a lot behind in my non-discuss list reading, but my this was my very first upon seeing Ted's initial post :) I'm not

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-25 Thread Paul Lussier
Bill Sconce [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:33:04 -0400 Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we did not keep minutes at the time. Ar, ar, ar. :) Bill, Talk like a pirate day is officially on the 19th of September. You're either way late or way early ;)w --

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-25 Thread Ted Roche
http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/FirstAnnouncement On Apr 25, 2006, at 9:16 AM, Paul Lussier wrote: When exactly did GNHLUG form ? I know I've been involved since sometime in 1994 or early 1995 (Good Night! Has it *really* been *that* long?!!?) But I was always under the impression

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-20 Thread Heather Brodeur
Bruce Dawson wrote: BTW: Back in the mid-to-late-90's I was a member of a UG that had a vendor try to take over by doing exactly this (they wanted to get rid of the non-commercialization policy). However, people got suspicious when about 30 names showed up one day from the same domain. A more

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-20 Thread Bruce Dawson
Heather Brodeur wrote: Bruce Dawson wrote: BTW: Back in the mid-to-late-90's I was a member of a UG that had a vendor try to take over by doing exactly this (they wanted to get rid of the non-commercialization policy). However, people got suspicious when about 30 names showed up one day from

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-20 Thread Bill Sconce
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:33:04 -0400 Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we did not keep minutes at the time. Ar, ar, ar. :) ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-org

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-20 Thread Jon maddog Hall
I am very sorry to hear that you have lost an eye and leg. Your dry cleaning bills must be high too given the mess that parrot must make. Aye, 'twas a real mess, for as long as the parrot lasted. (A snake got 'im.) Too bad, I was going to use him in an upcoming BeachHead column in the

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-20 Thread Ed Lawson
On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:30:22 -0400 Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's just resting? They stun easily... I didn't know Bill had one of the rare and beautiful Norwegian Blue parrots! I wonder why he has been hiding him from us? Would be a real attention grabber at Hoss

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Ted Roche
On Apr 18, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Jon maddog Hall wrote: I would not try to keep it at an odd number unless you either finalize the number of chapters (I think this would be unwise) or add an at large member every time you add a chapter (also unwise). Chapters come and go, it's true. I would

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Ed Lawson
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:11:51 -0400 Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ed, do you have wisdom to add? Yes, I'd like to learn more if anyone has more insights. I'm jammed up right now and will be a few days before I can digest what everyone is saying and get back on the 501(c) (3/6) issues.

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Jon maddog Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: It is for that reason I believe Ben's thought of more than one organization has some merit I hate to split it up into two organizations. It is hard enough to get people's time and energy for *ONE* organization. or at least it leads us to think about some important

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Ed Lawson
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:24:53 -0400 Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hate to split it up into two organizations. It is hard enough to get people's time and energy for *ONE* organization. I share your opinion on this. Ed Lawson ___

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Ben Scott
On 4/19/06, Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is for that reason I believe Ben's thought of more than one organization has some merit I hate to split it up into two organizations. It is hard enough to get people's time and energy for *ONE* organization. While I am advocating

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Jon maddog Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: While I am advocating two legal entities, it is for legal and administrative convenience. I was more-or-less thinking that the administrative functions of one could mostly be a mirror of the other, and that it would be kept mostly transparent to any volunteers.

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Ted Roche
On Apr 19, 2006, at 8:52 AM, Jon maddog Hall wrote: So what happens if no one from a small and remote chapter WANTS to run? Are you going to force them to run? Hog tie them and whip them until they agree to run? You WILL have representation, Ted shouts. :-) Excellent point. I'm warming

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Star
There's too much on this whole list to quote from. It's a great sign for the amount of passion in this!My thoughts on this may be over simplistic, but it's possible to use an existing structure and formalize it for the purpose of chartering and laying the ground work: Currently, there are a number

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Bruce Dawson
Jon maddog Hall wrote: I think you want to have as representatives the people who really want to do the work and make the group go. They will typically be the ones that (given a call to run) will respond, and probably (from their own participation on the lists, list of projects where they

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Heather Brodeur
Bruce Dawson wrote: Ted Roche wrote: I'm not sure we have an easy way to distinguish email addresses. Yes, but we don't have a good way of ensuring only one person gets a vote. Actually, I think this was discussed on the general mailing some time ago - I just can't find it.

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Jeff Kinz
On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 05:10:36PM -0400, Heather Brodeur wrote: Bruce Dawson wrote: Ted Roche wrote: I'm not sure we have an easy way to distinguish email addresses. Yes, but we don't have a good way of ensuring only one person gets a vote. Actually, I think this was discussed on the

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Jon maddog Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Perhaps I'm being a bit over simplistic, but shouldn't we just require registration to vote? I am starting up Linux International again, and even though I have a free basic membership, the people will have to register to join. After all, this is not much different

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Jon maddog Hall
Ted, well, maybe the second meeting. in 1994. Please don't exaggerate. :-) Organization was definitely not discussed until after the third meeting, at least. I was at the first meeting. And I was at the second meeting when the person who organized the first meeting said they could not do it

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-19 Thread Bruce Dawson
Heather Brodeur wrote: Bruce Dawson wrote: Ted Roche wrote: I'm not sure we have an easy way to distinguish email addresses. Yes, but we don't have a good way of ensuring only one person gets a vote. Actually, I think this was discussed on the general mailing some time ago - I just can't find

It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ted Roche
Several attendees at past quarterly activists meetings have expressed interest in reviving this topic. And maddog's recent postings on the Gould Academy get-together also point to the advantages of having a non-profit structure. GNHLUG is in a indefinite position, as it has no legal

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Bruce Dawson
Excellent [re-]start Ted. Thanks for remembering this! Ted Roche wrote: ... I have a few ideas about how I'd like to structure the organization. This is just one guy's opinion and I'd welcome constructive criticism. The main things I am trying to build in here are: representation,

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ed Lawson
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:41:00 -0400 Bruce Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent [re-]start Ted. Thanks for remembering this! Indeed. Of course the age old problem still exists. Since everyone wants to be as egalitarian as our roots require (and I essentially agree with this view),

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Bruce Dawson
Ted Roche wrote: On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:17 PM, Ed Lawson wrote: Sounds like a good topic to merge with a quarterly summer meeting with a key-signing party and a summer cookout, eh? Eh? (My ears perk up.) I guess I need to firm up my summer schedule. Speaking of cat herding... Sigh. --Bruce

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ed Lawson
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:40:12 -0400 Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we're going to go before anyone and say we represent GNHLUG, we have to make sure we actually *DO* represent GNHLUG. That means everyone has to agree with everything we're pushing (more or less). Not in response to

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Jon maddog Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1. All chapters have a representative in the executive council. (What's a chapter? We'll let the governing body decide, perhaps by drafting regulations, perhaps by vote on a case-by-case basis.) 2. Two or more at large members can serve, bringing the total count

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ben Scott
On 4/18/06, Ed Lawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not in response to the merits of what Ben has suggested, but only to point out that one often under appreciated and misunderstood feature of a democracy is that the majority rules. Indeed, and not just

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ben Scott
On 4/18/06, Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As to Ben's input ... I think that general guidelines of We believe in Free and Open Source Software and its use is a pretty general idea and leaves lots of room open for advocacy. General ideas tend to get bogged down when the details

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ted Roche
On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Bruce Dawson wrote: Ah ha! You're suggesting a Senate to go with the Representatives! Senates *are* good balances to the sometimes mob rule of representative government, but maybe we could have two forms of representative - one representing the constituents and one

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Jon maddog Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I don't understand. I thought one of the reasons for seeking (c)(3) status was so that contributions would be tax-deductible. ?? Sure, *if* you can get 501(c)3 status. What I am telling you is that several tax-lawyers I know are telling me that 501(c)3 status is

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Bruce Dawson
Ted Roche wrote: On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Bruce Dawson wrote: Ah ha! You're suggesting a Senate to go with the Representatives! Senates *are* good balances to the sometimes mob rule of representative government, but maybe we could have two forms of representative - one representing the

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Ted Roche
On Apr 18, 2006, at 3:40 PM, Ben Scott wrote: I believe that, when it comes to advocacy, there should be legal entity separate from GNHLUG. To my mind, GNHLUG is an organization that provides an infrastructure for members to meet, confer, network and create projects. Advocacy for or

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread Bill Sconce
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:12:41 -0400 Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm... wonder if anyone on this list is familiar with maintaining voter lists. Oh oh. ___ gnhlug-org mailing list gnhlug-org@mail.gnhlug.org

Re: It's time to talk by-laws again...

2006-04-18 Thread David Marston
Well, I sat out the two iterations on this topic, at least as far as the following idea is concerned. It was a problem of personalities in the past, but perhaps the people in question are no longer (deeply) involved. If you know about *current* problems and don't want to publicize them, please at