Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[D. via gnucash-user]

Of course, you can suppress zero balance accounts in the View menu, if that's 
your preference...


 Original Message 
From: David Cousens 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 18:46:57 EDT 2021
To: John Morris , Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

John,

I agree. There is a case for not displaying the Imbalance accounts in the CoA
tab if there are no entries to them, i.e. they are zero balance. This is an
option in reports but not in the account tab. They can of course be left in the
CoA and hidden in the Account tab by editing the account and setting the hidden
flag but they then remain hidden even when new entries to them are created.

I would go further and hide them totally if the balance in them was zero and
change either the background or the font color to a bright red or even flashing
red( that would clearly need to be optional) to  highlight them when they are
present with a non-zero balance. 

Their usefulness to indicate incorrect entries would be enhanced if they are
hidden when the balance is zero as their presence whether highlighted or not
indicates an error.  Similarly with the orphan transactions created when an
account with existing transactions to it has been deleted without moving the
transactions to another account.

I would take a look at it but I am currently heavily involved in a physics
project programming exercise at the moment. The change in behaviour from the
previous version probably needs to be tracked down and, where possible fixed
first, before adding any further enhancements to minimize conflicting changes.

David Cousens

On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 18:10 -0400, John Morris wrote:
> > Actually you are given the opportunity to fix it during entry. When the
> > Imbalance account appears in a transaction in the account column, all you
> > have to do is click on it in the Account column and assign the correct
> > account from the drop down list, before closing (pressing Enter) the
> > transaction.
> 
> Unfortunately, by then the damage is already done. The Imbalance account has
> been created and I must go and delete it yet again. I don’t like extra
> accounts cluttering up my carefully designed CoA.
> 
> Best,
> John
> 
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Peter West]

I’m a fairly naive user, but I find the Imbalance-XXX and Orphan-XXX accounts 
(at top level in my CoA) extremely useful, and I understand why they are there. 
If I ever see a balance, I know I have to fix something, which is a good reason 
to have them at the top. I can’t comment on any changes that might have 
occurred in the behaviour of these accounts recently. However, in respect of 
the tidiness of the CoA, one possible solution is to create a special case for 
these accounts, such that they only display in the CoA listing when they have a 
non-zero balance.

Peter
—
Peter West
p...@ehealth.id.au
“…unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will 
never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

> On 2 Jun 2021, at 11:22 am, Derek Atkins  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, June 1, 2021 9:15 pm, Liz Dodd wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:23:07 -0400
>> "D. via gnucash-user"  wrote:
>> 
>>> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in
>>> GnuCash, and you can find discussions about it in the lists over the
>>> years.
>>> 
>>> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a
>>> user to enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the
>>> balancing entry in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically
>>> speaking), or should the program nag the user to balance the
>>> transaction every time? Gnucash choose the former many years ago, and
>>> has stuck with that model since.
>> 
>> It is a problem when you are not aware of how to enter transactions,
>> and press the Enter key, probably by habit.
>> Nevertheless I can still find myself with Imbalance entries although I
>> have been using Gnucash a long time.
> 
> Most of my Imbalance entries are a result of rounding errors in the
> scheduled transaction subsystem.  I'll get an extra $0.01 that gets put
> into Imbalance, until I get the statement and manually adjust the
> transaction.
> 
> In the steady-state, Imbalance account is (and should remain) empty.
> 
>> Liz
> 
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> 
> -derek
> 
> -- 
>   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>   de...@ihtfp.com  www.ihtfp.com 
> 
>   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
> 
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Derek Atkins]

On Tue, June 1, 2021 9:15 pm, Liz Dodd wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:23:07 -0400
> "D. via gnucash-user"  wrote:
>
>> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in
>> GnuCash, and you can find discussions about it in the lists over the
>> years.
>>
>> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a
>> user to enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the
>> balancing entry in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically
>> speaking), or should the program nag the user to balance the
>> transaction every time? Gnucash choose the former many years ago, and
>> has stuck with that model since.
>
> It is a problem when you are not aware of how to enter transactions,
> and press the Enter key, probably by habit.
> Nevertheless I can still find myself with Imbalance entries although I
> have been using Gnucash a long time.

Most of my Imbalance entries are a result of rounding errors in the
scheduled transaction subsystem.  I'll get an extra $0.01 that gets put
into Imbalance, until I get the statement and manually adjust the
transaction.

In the steady-state, Imbalance account is (and should remain) empty.

> Liz

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Liz Dodd]

On Tue, 01 Jun 2021 10:23:07 -0400
"D. via gnucash-user"  wrote:

> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in
> GnuCash, and you can find discussions about it in the lists over the
> years. 
> 
> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a
> user to enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the
> balancing entry in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically
> speaking), or should the program nag the user to balance the
> transaction every time? Gnucash choose the former many years ago, and
> has stuck with that model since. 

It is a problem when you are not aware of how to enter transactions,
and press the Enter key, probably by habit. 
Nevertheless I can still find myself with Imbalance entries although I
have been using Gnucash a long time.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice

[Alan Hopkins]

   Hello all
   I am using PCLinuxOS KDE5 with GNUCash 4.2 and have had the same issues
   with the transparency. The default style for Gnome/GTK applications was
   Breeze so I changed it to Adwaita and the problem has gone.  I wasn't
   that happy with the "look" though so I have since changed the style to
   Numix and all is working well.
   HTH someone.
   Cheers
   Alan

   On 2/6/21 4:27 am, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:

I do not understand why Ubuntu 20.04 LTS is denied later releases.  How can you
maintain a family of products when you leave some kids behind on the side of the
 road for two years?  I do not care what release number is fixed under.  I do wa
nt the fix to flow to me through the normal channels as an approved, tested vers
ion.  That's not a lot to ask, normally!


-Original Message-
From: Chris Good [1]
To: [2]gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Cc: [3]dgpick...@aol.com
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice

Message: 11

Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 13:46:14 + (UTC)
From: "David G. Pickett" [4]
To: [5]"gnucash-user@gnucash.org" [6]
Subject: Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice
Message-ID: [7]<554837847.809085.1622295974...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I never warmed to flaptak or snap with their huge repositories of historic files
, or compile your own, which means you are off the standard update stream.? (I h
ave compiled personal fixes into many distributed packages, know my way around c
onfigure and all that, but I should not have to go there to get basic good opera
tion of current code.)? I wanted an update on the standard update stream.

The last bug report suggestion does fix it, so it could be distributed with 3.8b
 and possibly other versions to fix this.



Hi David,
I don’t understand your reticence to use flatpak. In my opinion, it is a wonderf
ul way to be able to keep up with latest fixes and features, and also be able to
 run a specific older version if there is an issue that makes the latest and gre
atest no good for your situation, as occasionally happens. Admittedly, there are
 some known issues with flatpak, see [8]https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Flatpak#Kn
own_Issues
3.8B as in Ubuntu 20.04 repository is from Dec 2019.There will be no re-release
of such an old version.It may be possible to ship a fix for this problem with th
e next 4.6 release, but I’m not sure there is a mechanism that would enable an u
pdate to an existing gtk css file.Also, doing so may causes problems for users o
f other themes.
Regards, Chris Good
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References

   1. mailto:goodchri...@gmail.com
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   3. mailto:dgpick...@aol.com
   4. mailto:dgpick...@aol.com
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   6. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
   7. mailto:554837847.809085.1622295974...@mail.yahoo.com
   8. https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Flatpak#Known_Issues
   9. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
  10. https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
  11. https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[flywire]

Entering data for someone else is likely to produce a lot of /corner cases/
too.

This leads to insert/delete splits, which always causes me grief, and I have
to delete the imbalance line manually. Is my workflow wrong?



--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[John Morris]

Hi David,
> I agree. There is a case for not displaying the Imbalance accounts in the CoA 
> tab if there are no entries to them, i.e. they are zero balance. This is an 
> option in reports but not in the account tab. They can of course be left in 
> the CoA and hidden in the Account tab by editing the account and setting the 
> hidden flag but they then remain hidden even when new entries to them are 
> created.

  Yes, that is a large part of my complaint. Certainly, hiding the empty 
accounts would be an improvement since there is currently no developer time 
available to implement the full solution (a preference to stop the user in 
their tracks before the imbalanced transaction is finalized).

> I would go further and hide them totally if the balance in them was zero and 
> change either the background or the font color to a bright red or even 
> flashing red( that would clearly need to be optional) to  highlight them when 
> they are present with a non-zero balance.

  Yes, anything to draw the user’s attention to their presence would be helpful.

> Their usefulness to indicate incorrect entries would be enhanced if they are 
> hidden when the balance is zero as their presence whether highlighted or not 
> indicates an error.  Similarly with the orphan transactions created when an 
> account with existing transactions to it has been deleted without moving the 
> transactions to another account.

  Yes.

> I would take a look at it but I am currently heavily involved in a physics 
> project programming exercise at the moment. The change in behaviour from the 
> previous version probably needs to be tracked down and, where possible fixed 
> first, before adding any further enhancements to minimize conflicting changes.

  I understand being too busy to take on new projects. I also agree that fixing 
the more immediate and more significant problems in GnuCash is much more 
important the niceties of how the imbalanced transactions are handled.

Best,
John

> On Jun 1, 2021, at 6:46 PM, David Cousens  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> I agree. There is a case for not displaying the Imbalance accounts in the CoA
> tab if there are no entries to them, i.e. they are zero balance. This is an
> option in reports but not in the account tab. They can of course be left in 
> the
> CoA and hidden in the Account tab by editing the account and setting the 
> hidden
> flag but they then remain hidden even when new entries to them are created.
> 
> I would go further and hide them totally if the balance in them was zero and
> change either the background or the font color to a bright red or even 
> flashing
> red( that would clearly need to be optional) to  highlight them when they are
> present with a non-zero balance. 
> 
> Their usefulness to indicate incorrect entries would be enhanced if they are
> hidden when the balance is zero as their presence whether highlighted or not
> indicates an error.  Similarly with the orphan transactions created when an
> account with existing transactions to it has been deleted without moving the
> transactions to another account.
> 
> I would take a look at it but I am currently heavily involved in a physics
> project programming exercise at the moment. The change in behaviour from the
> previous version probably needs to be tracked down and, where possible fixed
> first, before adding any further enhancements to minimize conflicting changes.
> 
> David Cousens
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[David Cousens]

John,

I agree. There is a case for not displaying the Imbalance accounts in the CoA
tab if there are no entries to them, i.e. they are zero balance. This is an
option in reports but not in the account tab. They can of course be left in the
CoA and hidden in the Account tab by editing the account and setting the hidden
flag but they then remain hidden even when new entries to them are created.

I would go further and hide them totally if the balance in them was zero and
change either the background or the font color to a bright red or even flashing
red( that would clearly need to be optional) to  highlight them when they are
present with a non-zero balance. 

Their usefulness to indicate incorrect entries would be enhanced if they are
hidden when the balance is zero as their presence whether highlighted or not
indicates an error.  Similarly with the orphan transactions created when an
account with existing transactions to it has been deleted without moving the
transactions to another account.

I would take a look at it but I am currently heavily involved in a physics
project programming exercise at the moment. The change in behaviour from the
previous version probably needs to be tracked down and, where possible fixed
first, before adding any further enhancements to minimize conflicting changes.

David Cousens

On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 18:10 -0400, John Morris wrote:
> > Actually you are given the opportunity to fix it during entry. When the
> > Imbalance account appears in a transaction in the account column, all you
> > have to do is click on it in the Account column and assign the correct
> > account from the drop down list, before closing (pressing Enter) the
> > transaction.
> 
> Unfortunately, by then the damage is already done. The Imbalance account has
> been created and I must go and delete it yet again. I don’t like extra
> accounts cluttering up my carefully designed CoA.
> 
> Best,
> John
> 
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[John Morris]

> Actually you are given the opportunity to fix it during entry. When the 
> Imbalance account appears in a transaction in the account column, all you 
> have to do is click on it in the Account column and assign the correct 
> account from the drop down list, before closing (pressing Enter) the 
> transaction.

Unfortunately, by then the damage is already done. The Imbalance account has 
been created and I must go and delete it yet again. I don’t like extra accounts 
cluttering up my carefully designed CoA.

Best,
John

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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[David Carlson]

I might add here that there are corner cases where it is very difficult to
quickly bring a transaction into balance, and sometimes it is necessary for
an accounting judgement needing to be made.
Many of these cases arise when something does not have a well defined
value, so an estimated value needs to be assigned, possibly by someone
other than the person entering the transaction.
Other times it is necessary to draw on calculations that cannot be made on
the fly, such as realized gains on security sales, which may need
cumulative values from multiple opening transactions, along with multiple
previous partial closing transactions and time intervals calculated as well.

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 4:35 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> John,
>
> Actually you are given the opportunity to fix it during entry. When the
> Imbalance account appears in a transaction in the account column, all you
> have
> to do is click on it in the Account column and assign the correct account
> from
> the drop down list, before closing (pressing Enter) the transaction.
>
> In two split transactions GnuCash will assign the amount of the entry in
> the
> first split to the second split automatically and if you select a valid
> transfer
> account no imbalance will occur. If you don't select a valid account or
> alter
> the amount when creating a transaction with 3 or more splits, the
> imbalance can
> be created.
>
> As Michael indicated the other common scenario is when the target account
> does
> not exist and has not been created before entry.
> David Cousens
> (yet another David)
>
> On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 11:07 -0400, John Morris wrote:
> > Given the extremely long history of this question with many good people
> > expressing good reasons on both sides of the debate, I would have
> expected the
> > developers to give the user the choice. There should be a switch in the
> > preferences that allows the user to decide if the necessary extra
> accounts
> > will be created as needed to address an imbalance or the user will be
> forced
> > to correct the imbalance before completing the transaction. Personally, I
> > would choose the latter, but I am not allowed that freedom with GnuCash.
> >
> > John
> >
> > > The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash,
> and
> > > you can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.
> > >
> > > Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a
> user to
> > > enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing
> entry
> > > in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should the
> > > program nag the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash
> choose
> > > the former many years ago, and has stuck with that model since.
> > >
> > > David
> > ___
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[David Cousens]

John,

Actually you are given the opportunity to fix it during entry. When the
Imbalance account appears in a transaction in the account column, all you have
to do is click on it in the Account column and assign the correct account from
the drop down list, before closing (pressing Enter) the transaction.

In two split transactions GnuCash will assign the amount of the entry in the
first split to the second split automatically and if you select a valid transfer
account no imbalance will occur. If you don't select a valid account or alter
the amount when creating a transaction with 3 or more splits, the imbalance can
be created.

As Michael indicated the other common scenario is when the target account does
not exist and has not been created before entry.
David Cousens
(yet another David)

On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 11:07 -0400, John Morris wrote:
> Given the extremely long history of this question with many good people
> expressing good reasons on both sides of the debate, I would have expected the
> developers to give the user the choice. There should be a switch in the
> preferences that allows the user to decide if the necessary extra accounts
> will be created as needed to address an imbalance or the user will be forced
> to correct the imbalance before completing the transaction. Personally, I
> would choose the latter, but I am not allowed that freedom with GnuCash.
> 
> John
> 
> > The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash, and
> > you can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.
> > 
> > Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a user to
> > enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing entry
> > in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should the
> > program nag the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash choose
> > the former many years ago, and has stuck with that model since.
> > 
> > David
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[DaveC49]

Laura,

The reason Imbalance entries exist is that it is a fundamental principle in
double entry accounting that the sum of the debits and credits to the
various accounts that make up a transaction must be zero.

The Imbalance results if a user creates and saves a transaction in which
this is not true. GNuCash tries to force your hand on this. You will notice
that if you create a transaction in which the sum of the debits and credits
is not zero, GnuCash will open a new line with an amount which will balance
that sum with no account selected in the account column. If you select an
account to assign that imbalance to, then the transaction is then balanced.
If you do not and save the transaction without specifically assigning an
account to it, GnuCash will assign the amount by which the transaction is
unbalanced to an Imbalance account in the currency of the accounts. If the
transaction involves more than one currency it will be in the currency which
is imbalanced in the transaction.

The value of the Imbalance account is that it allows you to quickly identify
transactions in which the user has incorrectly entered  data. There should
be no entries in any Imbalance account in any currency if your books are are
correctly balanced. Any transaction which turns up in an Imbalance account
NEEDS to be corrected and when it is corrected the Imbalance account balance
goes to 0 which it should always be if all entries are correct.
The following screen shot show creating an imbalance transaction and its
effect
 
 
 
 
 

The debate is about where the Imbalance accounts should be located within
the chart of accounts and whether the user can move them to a designated
location and have theImbalance accounts created there in future. 

My personal preference would be that the Imbalance accounts only appear in
the Accounts Tab when there is an unbalanced entry in the accounts and that
they should be hidden/removed from the tab when the imbalance is corrected.
I would flag them further by changing the color of the text or background to
red in the accounts tab to indicate that this is an error state which should
be corrected.





--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

I do not understand why Ubuntu 20.04 LTS is denied later releases.  How can you 
maintain a family of products when you leave some kids behind on the side of 
the road for two years?  I do not care what release number is fixed under.  I 
do want the fix to flow to me through the normal channels as an approved, 
tested version.  That's not a lot to ask, normally!


-Original Message-
From: Chris Good 
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Cc: dgpick...@aol.com
Sent: Sat, May 29, 2021 6:19 pm
Subject: Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice

Message: 11

Date: Sat, 29 May 2021 13:46:14 + (UTC)
From: "David G. Pickett" 
To: "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Transparent background on selected Transfer choice
Message-ID: <554837847.809085.1622295974...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I never warmed to flaptak or snap with their huge repositories of historic 
files, or compile your own, which means you are off the standard update 
stream.? (I have compiled personal fixes into many distributed packages, know 
my way around configure and all that, but I should not have to go there to get 
basic good operation of current code.)? I wanted an update on the standard 
update stream.

The last bug report suggestion does fix it, so it could be distributed with 
3.8b and possibly other versions to fix this.



Hi David,
I don’t understand your reticence to use flatpak. In my opinion, it is a 
wonderful way to be able to keep up with latest fixes and features, and also be 
able to run a specific older version if there is an issue that makes the latest 
and greatest no good for your situation, as occasionally happens. Admittedly, 
there are some known issues with flatpak, see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Flatpak#Known_Issues
3.8B as in Ubuntu 20.04 repository is from Dec 2019.There will be no re-release 
of such an old version.It may be possible to ship a fix for this problem with 
the next 4.6 release, but I’m not sure there is a mechanism that would enable 
an update to an existing gtk css file.Also, doing so may causes problems for 
users of other themes.
Regards, Chris Good
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[D via gnucash-user]

Two reasons:
1- the dev team tries to minimize stored settings, and
2- no one has written the code. 

On Jun 1, 2021, 11:56, at 11:56, s310...@gmail.com wrote:
>hi,
>why not make it configurable (either nag or create a dummy
>account/entry)
>as a settings option?
>
>Shay
>
>On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 5:30 PM  wrote:
>
>> David, thank you for taking the time to fill me in the thought
>process.
>> Laura
>>
>> - Original message -
>> From: "D." mailto:sunfish62%40yahoo.com>>
>> To: men...@fastmail.fm 
>> Cc: Gnucash Users > gnucash-user%40gnucash.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST
>CURIOUS
>> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:23 AM
>>
>> Laura,
>>
>> Welcome to gnucash.
>>
>> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in
>GnuCash, and
>> you can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.
>>
>> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a
>user
>> to enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the
>balancing
>> entry in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or
>should
>> the program nag the user to balance the transaction every time?
>Gnucash
>> choose the former many years ago, and has stuck with that model
>since.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
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>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[s310310]

hi,
why not make it configurable (either nag or create a dummy account/entry)
as a settings option?

Shay

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 5:30 PM  wrote:

> David, thank you for taking the time to fill me in the thought process.
> Laura
>
> - Original message -
> From: "D." mailto:sunfish62%40yahoo.com>>
> To: men...@fastmail.fm 
> Cc: Gnucash Users  gnucash-user%40gnucash.org>>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS
> Date: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:23 AM
>
> Laura,
>
> Welcome to gnucash.
>
> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash, and
> you can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.
>
> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a user
> to enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing
> entry in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should
> the program nag the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash
> choose the former many years ago, and has stuck with that model since.
>
> David
>
>
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[John Morris]

Given the extremely long history of this question with many good people 
expressing good reasons on both sides of the debate, I would have expected the 
developers to give the user the choice. There should be a switch in the 
preferences that allows the user to decide if the necessary extra accounts will 
be created as needed to address an imbalance or the user will be forced to 
correct the imbalance before completing the transaction. Personally, I would 
choose the latter, but I am not allowed that freedom with GnuCash.

John

> The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash, and 
> you can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.
> 
> Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a user to 
> enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing entry 
> in a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should the 
> program nag the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash choose 
> the former many years ago, and has stuck with that model since.
> 
> David
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Michael or Penny Novack]

As I've been reading the discussion about the imbalance account, it occurred to 
me to ask why GnuCash allows entries that are out of balance?  In theory and 
practice, we should not have entries that don't balance...credits should equal 
debits...and if they don't, we have an error in the entry.  And not that I 
would say QuickBooks is a work of art, but it doesn't allow one to make an 
entry that doesn't balance.  In other words, it forces the user to at least 
consciously assign an imbalance to an account (either an already existing one 
or a new one.


<< wearing my old "senior business analyst" hat for a moment >>

Work flow?

There are two very different sorts of "out of balance" transactions. One 
sort (the least interesting) is when in a split, had a remnant not 
assigned. And this could be "disallowed" as you suggest.


The more interesting sort is "the appropriate account does not yet 
exist". Sometimes that would be a simple matter of "create new account" 
and this action could be forced within entering the transaction. BUT, it 
might not be just a simple matter, because once this account is created 
it might imply a split of an existing account*. And that you would not 
want to do in the middle of entering a transaction. Much better to allow 
the transaction to complete (using Imbalance) letting you complete 
entering this and the other transactions you were entering, then address 
the "messy" task of splitting the existing account, and finally dealing 
with the Imbalance.


The solution of "put in in some wrong account" not such a good idea 
unless you wrote a note to yourself about fixing later. You would have 
no easy way to find this to fix (as you do when stuck into Imbalance 
--ANYTHING left in Imbalance needs to be addressed so easy to find).


Michael

* The not quite fitting account contains two sorts of transactions that 
were closely enough related to be placed into the same account as long 
as no better fitting account existed for one of those sorts. But once 
the new account is created to exactly fit the new transaction, it 
becomes clear that one of those sorts is a MUCH better fit for this new 
account. Might involve moving quite a few transactions.


   Now USUALLY I manage to spot this in advance. I see that a 
transaction has occurred that will make me want to change the CoA in 
this way and make that change before beginning to enter transactions. 
Certainly true for my personal books but even then sometimes I don;t 
spot in advance. But were I just the bookkeeper for an organization, not 
(also) the treasurer, I'd need to talk that over with the Treasurer to 
get instructed what change to make in the CoA or where to stick this 
amount even if no change to the CoA (where best fits). So letting me 
finish my work leaving the amount temporarily in Imbalance. It can't get 
forgotten there as sticks out like a sore thumb. Note even the "simple" 
case can't be solved by "simply create new account" when you need 
authorization to do that. Even as Treasurer, I might want to defer the 
decision to the next meeting of the Board of Directors. Or, in the case 
of one of the organizations, when doing reimbursements might not fully 
understand one or more of the receipts so  needing to check with the 
person << but knowing the person's financial situation, not want to hold 
up sending the reimbursement check >>


PS -- I have never encountered the "Orphan" account used but I suspect 
from a messed up account deletion.



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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[menace]

David, thank you for taking the time to fill me in the thought process.  Laura

- Original message -
From: "D." mailto:sunfish62%40yahoo.com>>
To: men...@fastmail.fm 
Cc: Gnucash Users mailto:gnucash-user%40gnucash.org>>
Subject: Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS
Date: Tuesday, June 01, 2021 9:23 AM

Laura,

Welcome to gnucash.

The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash, and you 
can find discussions about it in the lists over the years.

Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a user to 
enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing entry in 
a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should the program nag 
the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash choose the former many 
years ago, and has stuck with that model since.

David


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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[D. via gnucash-user]

Laura, 

Welcome to gnucash. 

The question about imbalance entries goes back a long ways in GnuCash, and you 
can find discussions about it in the lists over the years. 

Essentially, the debate boils down to this: is it better to allow a user to 
enter an imbalanced transaction and automatically create the balancing entry in 
a dummy account (Imbalance-XXX generically speaking), or should the program nag 
the user to balance the transaction every time? Gnucash choose the former many 
years ago, and has stuck with that model since. 

David


 Original Message 
From: men...@fastmail.fm
Sent: Tue Jun 01 10:04:09 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

Michael wrote 

" automatically-generated entries for Imbalance-USD would be placed in my 
existing Imbalance-USD account, which is located under Special Accounts. "

First, thank you to the developers of GnuCash.  I started using it a couple of 
months ago to replace Quicken because it drove me nuts with its constant 
nagging to update to a new version, and because I could not get the Quicken 
version I owned to work on my Windows 10 computers. It still works on my Win 7 
computer, but that's it.   I've been very happy with GnuCash - you all have 
done a very nice job.  I also use QuickBooks for my business accounting and may 
end up switching those over to GnuCash at some point.

As I've been reading the discussion about the imbalance account, it occurred to 
me to ask why GnuCash allows entries that are out of balance?  In theory and 
practice, we should not have entries that don't balance...credits should equal 
debits...and if they don't, we have an error in the entry.  And not that I 
would say QuickBooks is a work of art, but it doesn't allow one to make an 
entry that doesn't balance.  In other words, it forces the user to at least 
consciously assign an imbalance to an account (either an already existing one 
or a new one.  This allows one to fudge the entry if one doesn't know the 
answer in that moment and then go find out the answer and fix the entry later). 
 But, the user is "on notice" that there was a problem with the entry.

As the discussion about the Imbalance account highlights, GnuCash does allow an 
out of balance entry.  This automatic action may easily be missed if one 
doesn't quickly the develop the habit of checking the Imbalance account.  

I'm simply curious, why doesn't GnuCash prevent these entries to begin with?

Thank you for your time to answer in advance, Laura
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Re: [GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[Glenn Fowler]

My opinion is that the imbalance *IS* the error and it allows you to easily
see and correct which transactions need to be moved. I think this is
preferred instead of a hard error or not allowing a transaction to be
entered.

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 10:04 AM  wrote:

> Michael wrote
>
> " automatically-generated entries for Imbalance-USD would be placed in my
> existing Imbalance-USD account, which is located under Special Accounts. "
>
> First, thank you to the developers of GnuCash.  I started using it a
> couple of months ago to replace Quicken because it drove me nuts with its
> constant nagging to update to a new version, and because I could not get
> the Quicken version I owned to work on my Windows 10 computers. It still
> works on my Win 7 computer, but that's it.   I've been very happy with
> GnuCash - you all have done a very nice job.  I also use QuickBooks for my
> business accounting and may end up switching those over to GnuCash at some
> point.
>
> As I've been reading the discussion about the imbalance account, it
> occurred to me to ask why GnuCash allows entries that are out of balance?
> In theory and practice, we should not have entries that don't
> balance...credits should equal debits...and if they don't, we have an error
> in the entry.  And not that I would say QuickBooks is a work of art, but it
> doesn't allow one to make an entry that doesn't balance.  In other words,
> it forces the user to at least consciously assign an imbalance to an
> account (either an already existing one or a new one.  This allows one to
> fudge the entry if one doesn't know the answer in that moment and then go
> find out the answer and fix the entry later).  But, the user is "on notice"
> that there was a problem with the entry.
>
> As the discussion about the Imbalance account highlights, GnuCash does
> allow an out of balance entry.  This automatic action may easily be missed
> if one doesn't quickly the develop the habit of checking the Imbalance
> account.
>
> I'm simply curious, why doesn't GnuCash prevent these entries to begin
> with?
>
> Thank you for your time to answer in advance, Laura
> ___
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[GNC] WHY ARE THERE "IMBALANCE ENTRIES" AT ALL ?? JUST CURIOUS

[menace]

Michael wrote 

" automatically-generated entries for Imbalance-USD would be placed in my 
existing Imbalance-USD account, which is located under Special Accounts. "

First, thank you to the developers of GnuCash.  I started using it a couple of 
months ago to replace Quicken because it drove me nuts with its constant 
nagging to update to a new version, and because I could not get the Quicken 
version I owned to work on my Windows 10 computers. It still works on my Win 7 
computer, but that's it.   I've been very happy with GnuCash - you all have 
done a very nice job.  I also use QuickBooks for my business accounting and may 
end up switching those over to GnuCash at some point.

As I've been reading the discussion about the imbalance account, it occurred to 
me to ask why GnuCash allows entries that are out of balance?  In theory and 
practice, we should not have entries that don't balance...credits should equal 
debits...and if they don't, we have an error in the entry.  And not that I 
would say QuickBooks is a work of art, but it doesn't allow one to make an 
entry that doesn't balance.  In other words, it forces the user to at least 
consciously assign an imbalance to an account (either an already existing one 
or a new one.  This allows one to fudge the entry if one doesn't know the 
answer in that moment and then go find out the answer and fix the entry later). 
 But, the user is "on notice" that there was a problem with the entry.

As the discussion about the Imbalance account highlights, GnuCash does allow an 
out of balance entry.  This automatic action may easily be missed if one 
doesn't quickly the develop the habit of checking the Imbalance account.  

I'm simply curious, why doesn't GnuCash prevent these entries to begin with?

Thank you for your time to answer in advance, Laura
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Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

[Matthew Forbis via gnucash-user]

 Hi All,
JRalls authored a patch not too long ago that  was around trading accounts and 
not finding the correct trading account when it wasn't at the top level, so it 
created a second one.  It will be included in 4.6.  This scenario sounds pretty 
similiar and I wonder if this is related.  
Bug: https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798093Change Request: 
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/996

Matt
   

 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 07:22:20 AM CDT, D. via gnucash-user 
 wrote:  
 
 And, having downgraded to 4.4, I can confirm that this new behavior began with 
4.5.


 Original Message 
From: "D. via gnucash-user" 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 08:12:27 EDT 2021
To: David G Hamblen 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Well, that's how it worked before. 


 Original Message 
From: David G Hamblen 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 07:08:28 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Since Gnucash uses guid's, perhaps let it create the imbalance account 
in the root account, then rename/move it to a location of your 
choosing.  That way it maybe gets added to the list of valid imbalance 
accounts?

On 5/31/21 11:23 PM, DaveC49 wrote:
> David,
>
> I'm not sure why the behaviour has changed, but from a programming
> prospective, it is much simpler to create the imbalance accounts at the top
> level. There is no need to search for a location which may be different in
> every user's CoA. One reason perhaps for keeping it at the top level is that
> it sticks out and alerts the user they have made an error in a transaction,
> which is perhaps a benefit for new users, although annoying for those who
> have an established workflow which takes care of detecting errors anyway
>
> If an older version of GnuCash was able to create new imbalance accounts in
> a lower level position in the account heirarchy, then it had to be recording
> that location in the heirarchy that the Imbalance account had been shifted
> to after its initial creation at the top level in some manner.
>
> It should not be too hard to have a preference setting for the Imbalance
> account location and if a user shifts an Imbalance account from the default
> location, set that preference location to the location in the CoA the
> account is moved to and use that for subsequent creation of Imbalance
> account entries.  I can imagine that some users could want to have Imbalance
> accounts for different currencies in different locations which would require
> a preference location for each currency in use.
>
> Just requires someone to program/reprogram it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
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Cell Phone (207) 350-0440

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Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

[D. via gnucash-user]

I wonder whether a change in the underlying account functions in pull request 
#921 has caused this change in behavior. The PR appears to have rearranged the 
list order to improve performance, and I wonder if by rearranging, the embedded 
imbalance account is no longer found?  I'll note that with 4.5, I have seen the 
account drop down scrolling through the account structure to reach accounts 
deep in the hierarchy. This scrolling also is not present in 4.4. It doesn't 
ultimately affect the system functionality, but it is a little disconcerting...


 Original Message 
From: "D. via gnucash-user" 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 08:21:26 EDT 2021
To: David G Hamblen 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

And, having downgraded to 4.4, I can confirm that this new behavior began with 
4.5.


 Original Message 
From: "D. via gnucash-user" 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 08:12:27 EDT 2021
To: David G Hamblen 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Well, that's how it worked before. 


 Original Message 
From: David G Hamblen 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 07:08:28 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Since Gnucash uses guid's, perhaps let it create the imbalance account 
in the root account, then rename/move it to a location of your 
choosing.  That way it maybe gets added to the list of valid imbalance 
accounts?

On 5/31/21 11:23 PM, DaveC49 wrote:
> David,
>
> I'm not sure why the behaviour has changed, but from a programming
> prospective, it is much simpler to create the imbalance accounts at the top
> level. There is no need to search for a location which may be different in
> every user's CoA. One reason perhaps for keeping it at the top level is that
> it sticks out and alerts the user they have made an error in a transaction,
> which is perhaps a benefit for new users, although annoying for those who
> have an established workflow which takes care of detecting errors anyway
>
> If an older version of GnuCash was able to create new imbalance accounts in
> a lower level position in the account heirarchy, then it had to be recording
> that location in the heirarchy that the Imbalance account had been shifted
> to after its initial creation at the top level in some manner.
>
> It should not be too hard to have a preference setting for the Imbalance
> account location and if a user shifts an Imbalance account from the default
> location, set that preference location to the location in the CoA the
> account is moved to and use that for subsequent creation of Imbalance
> account entries.  I can imagine that some users could want to have Imbalance
> accounts for different currencies in different locations which would require
> a preference location for each currency in use.
>
> Just requires someone to program/reprogram it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> .

-- 
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Cell Phone (207) 350-0440

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Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

[D. via gnucash-user]

And, having downgraded to 4.4, I can confirm that this new behavior began with 
4.5.


 Original Message 
From: "D. via gnucash-user" 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 08:12:27 EDT 2021
To: David G Hamblen 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Well, that's how it worked before. 


 Original Message 
From: David G Hamblen 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 07:08:28 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Since Gnucash uses guid's, perhaps let it create the imbalance account 
in the root account, then rename/move it to a location of your 
choosing.  That way it maybe gets added to the list of valid imbalance 
accounts?

On 5/31/21 11:23 PM, DaveC49 wrote:
> David,
>
> I'm not sure why the behaviour has changed, but from a programming
> prospective, it is much simpler to create the imbalance accounts at the top
> level. There is no need to search for a location which may be different in
> every user's CoA. One reason perhaps for keeping it at the top level is that
> it sticks out and alerts the user they have made an error in a transaction,
> which is perhaps a benefit for new users, although annoying for those who
> have an established workflow which takes care of detecting errors anyway
>
> If an older version of GnuCash was able to create new imbalance accounts in
> a lower level position in the account heirarchy, then it had to be recording
> that location in the heirarchy that the Imbalance account had been shifted
> to after its initial creation at the top level in some manner.
>
> It should not be too hard to have a preference setting for the Imbalance
> account location and if a user shifts an Imbalance account from the default
> location, set that preference location to the location in the CoA the
> account is moved to and use that for subsequent creation of Imbalance
> account entries.  I can imagine that some users could want to have Imbalance
> accounts for different currencies in different locations which would require
> a preference location for each currency in use.
>
> Just requires someone to program/reprogram it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
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> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> .

-- 
dhamb...@afrinc.com
home phone (207) 633-4342
Cell Phone (207) 350-0440

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Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

[D. via gnucash-user]

Well, that's how it worked before. 


 Original Message 
From: David G Hamblen 
Sent: Tue Jun 01 07:08:28 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

Since Gnucash uses guid's, perhaps let it create the imbalance account 
in the root account, then rename/move it to a location of your 
choosing.  That way it maybe gets added to the list of valid imbalance 
accounts?

On 5/31/21 11:23 PM, DaveC49 wrote:
> David,
>
> I'm not sure why the behaviour has changed, but from a programming
> prospective, it is much simpler to create the imbalance accounts at the top
> level. There is no need to search for a location which may be different in
> every user's CoA. One reason perhaps for keeping it at the top level is that
> it sticks out and alerts the user they have made an error in a transaction,
> which is perhaps a benefit for new users, although annoying for those who
> have an established workflow which takes care of detecting errors anyway
>
> If an older version of GnuCash was able to create new imbalance accounts in
> a lower level position in the account heirarchy, then it had to be recording
> that location in the heirarchy that the Imbalance account had been shifted
> to after its initial creation at the top level in some manner.
>
> It should not be too hard to have a preference setting for the Imbalance
> account location and if a user shifts an Imbalance account from the default
> location, set that preference location to the location in the CoA the
> account is moved to and use that for subsequent creation of Imbalance
> account entries.  I can imagine that some users could want to have Imbalance
> accounts for different currencies in different locations which would require
> a preference location for each currency in use.
>
> Just requires someone to program/reprogram it.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
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> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> .

-- 
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home phone (207) 633-4342
Cell Phone (207) 350-0440

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Re: [GNC] Question about Profit-Loss Report

[R. Victor Klassen]

In our jurisdiction farms are permitted to choose whether to use cash or 
accrual, and there are various tax advantages to using cash-based.

Happily, December/January is the time of lightest business, so the difference 
isn’t huge when it comes to accounting.

I do find I need to unpost and re-post invoices (dated Dec 31) when they are 
issued but not paid; and similarly bills that are issued but not due (or paid) 
until after the year end I post with a January 1 date.

If and when I’m audited by the taxing authorities I explain what I’ve done and 
they’re good with it.

> On May 31, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Alan Hopkins  wrote:
> 
>   Hello Howard
>   I agree with both Michaels - you need to understand the difference
>   between accounting records & reports prepared on an accruals basis vs a
>   cash basis. You should do some reading on basic accounting.
>   GNUCash used for business uses the accrual basis - (invoices are
>   registered in accounts receivable, bills are registered in accounts
>   payable).  Depending on the number of invoices & bills involved, you
>   may find that you need to develop your own cash report on a
>   spreadsheet.
>   Some of these links may  be of help to you:
>   [1]https://www.accountingtools.com/articles/how-to-convert-accrual-basi 
> 
>   s-to-cash-basis-accounting.html
>   [2]https://www.bookstime.com/articles/accrual-to-cash-conversion 
> 
>   [3]https://www.double-entry-bookkeeping.com/bookkeeping-basics/accrual- 
> 
>   to-cash-conversion-excel-worksheet/
>   GNUCash is excellent software (a big thank you to the developers!) and
>   you can get more understanding of basic accounting and using the
>   business features by referring to the Tutorial & Concepts guide:
>   [4]https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4=C=guide 
> 
>   I hope that is of some help to you
>   Cheers
>   Alan
> 
>   On 1/6/21 12:42 am, Michael Hendry wrote:
> 
> On 31 May 2021, at 15:10, Howard M. Fried [5] > wrote:
> 
> I have several invoices that were issued in 2020 but paid in 2021. These 
> funds a
> re not included in a P report for 2021, apparently because the report is 
> based
> on date of invoice issue, or have I missed something.
> 
> Is it possible to get the 2020 Sales that were paid in 2021 into the report 
> for
> 2021?  Simply extending the Report date range backward is not a solution 
> because
> many invoices that were issued and paid in 2020 will be included.  Or am I to 
> i
> nclude unrealized assets for 2020 as profit, like the P report does (I have 
> no
> accounting, financial, or legal experience in such matters).
> 
> Thank you for considering,
> Howard Fried
> 
> Not an accountant either, Howard, but I believe the approach varies according 
> to
> whether your books are kept on a cash or an accrual basis.
> 
> If cash, then reports are based on the date when you received income, or the 
> dat
> e you made a payment for expenses.
> 
> I don’t use the business features, but I think that you will be working on an 
> ac
> crual basis, and have reports on Accounts Receivable and Accounts Payable 
> which
> carry over the end of the financial year.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> [6]gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
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> iling_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> 
> References
> 
>   1. 
> https://www.accountingtools.com/articles/how-to-convert-accrual-basis-to-cash-basis-accounting.html
>  
> 
>   2. https://www.bookstime.com/articles/accrual-to-cash-conversion 
> 
>   3. 
> https://www.double-entry-bookkeeping.com/bookkeeping-basics/accrual-to-cash-conversion-excel-worksheet/
>  
> 
>   4. https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4=C=guide 
> 
>   5. mailto:cursor...@gmail.com 
>   6. mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>   7. https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user 
> 

Re: [GNC] New Imbalance-XXX Behavior

[David G Hamblen]

Since Gnucash uses guid's, perhaps let it create the imbalance account 
in the root account, then rename/move it to a location of your 
choosing.  That way it maybe gets added to the list of valid imbalance 
accounts?


On 5/31/21 11:23 PM, DaveC49 wrote:

David,

I'm not sure why the behaviour has changed, but from a programming
prospective, it is much simpler to create the imbalance accounts at the top
level. There is no need to search for a location which may be different in
every user's CoA. One reason perhaps for keeping it at the top level is that
it sticks out and alerts the user they have made an error in a transaction,
which is perhaps a benefit for new users, although annoying for those who
have an established workflow which takes care of detecting errors anyway

If an older version of GnuCash was able to create new imbalance accounts in
a lower level position in the account heirarchy, then it had to be recording
that location in the heirarchy that the Imbalance account had been shifted
to after its initial creation at the top level in some manner.

It should not be too hard to have a preference setting for the Imbalance
account location and if a user shifts an Imbalance account from the default
location, set that preference location to the location in the CoA the
account is moved to and use that for subsequent creation of Imbalance
account entries.  I can imagine that some users could want to have Imbalance
accounts for different currencies in different locations which would require
a preference location for each currency in use.

Just requires someone to program/reprogram it.




--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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.


--
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home phone (207) 633-4342
Cell Phone (207) 350-0440

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Re: [GNC] Question about Profit-Loss Report

[Mahon Finbar]

All very understandable. It has always intrigued me how accountants deal 
with 'late payments' i.e. bills paid after the close of the year. If I 
understand the discussion, ongoing (accrual based) businesses are always 
behind when it comes to an analysis of the state of play, unless all 
invoices are paid within the accounting period? Is that why a cash based 
spreadsheet is needed?


Isn't it possible in GNU to 'clear' an entry when the amount is paid? 
Then it will appear in the reconciliation?


Just a question, I don't want to drag out the discussion.

On 01/06/2021 04:13, Howard M. Fried wrote:

On 5/31/21 9:08 PM, Alan Hopkins wrote:

Hello Howard

I agree with both Michaels - you need to understand the difference 
between
accounting records & reports prepared on an accruals basis vs a cash 
basis. You

should do some reading on basic accounting.

GNUCash used for business uses the accrual basis - (invoices are 
registered in
accounts receivable, bills are registered in accounts payable). 
Depending on
the number of invoices & bills involved, you may find that you need 
to develop

your own cash report on a spreadsheet.

Some of these links may  be of help to you:
https://www.accountingtools.com/articles/how-to-convert-accrual-basis-to-cash-basis-accounting.html 

 


https://www.bookstime.com/articles/accrual-to-cash-conversion

https://www.double-entry-bookkeeping.com/bookkeeping-basics/accrual-to-cash-conversion-excel-worksheet/ 

 



GNUCash is excellent software (a big thank you to the developers!) 
and you can
get more understanding of basic accounting and using the business 
features by

referring to the Tutorial & Concepts guide:
https://www.gnucash.org/viewdoc.phtml?rev=4=C=guide


I hope that is of some help to you

Cheers

Alan


Thank you Alan, and both Michaels.  I was an educator for 34 years 
before launching a second career as an Editor.  Clearly, I need to 
take up the role of student and learn some basic accounting methods.  
I will certainly examine the materials that you have so kindly provided.


Regards,
Howard


On 1/6/21 12:42 am, Michael Hendry wrote:

On 31 May 2021, at 15:10, Howard M. Fried  wrote:

I have several invoices that were issued in 2020 but paid in 2021. 
These funds are not included in a P report for 2021, apparently 
because the report is based on date of invoice issue, or have I 
missed something.


Is it possible to get the 2020 Sales that were paid in 2021 into 
the report for 2021?  Simply extending the Report date range 
backward is not a solution because many invoices that were issued 
and paid in 2020 will be included.  Or am I to include unrealized 
assets for 2020 as profit, like the P report does (I have no 
accounting, financial, or legal experience in such matters).


Thank you for considering,
Howard Fried
Not an accountant either, Howard, but I believe the approach varies 
according to whether your books are kept on a cash or an accrual basis.


If cash, then reports are based on the date when you received 
income, or the date you made a payment for expenses.


I don’t use the business features, but I think that you will be 
working on an accrual basis, and have reports on Accounts Receivable 
and Accounts Payable which carry over the end of the financial year.


Michael


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