Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
First, please always reply to the list, not solely to individual users. Not all of us are available, or even can help further in some cases. Keeping all discussion on the list enables others to chime in, and others to benefit from the discussion. -- Second - to your CPA's response: That is the same thing I said. The report is 'as of a date' and *not* for a period. If you 'close books' it *appears* as if the Income & Expense accounts are for a period, but if you don't, then it is obvious that they are 'as of the report date'. It doesn't matter if you close books or not, the numbers will be the same for Income & Expense accounts. If your CPA insists, then by all means, close the books each year. But GnuCash does not require you to in order to produce the proper reports. You first said the CPA wanted the report for a date range and *not* a specific date, now you're saying your CPA agrees and knows that the report isn't for a date range at all. Certainly, spend some time understanding the report and the differences between a report for a date range and 'as of' a specific date. GnuCash can provide what your accountant is looking for. There's nothing wrong with the Trial Balance Report. (in this regard, at least) Regards, Adrien On 6/2/23 8:29 PM, Rogier F. van Vlissingen wrote: This got me the following response from my CPA: Quote Trial balance explanation is mis-stated. In a TB the Assets, Liabilities, and Capital accounts are not 'for the year'. The amounts for A, L, and C are reported as of the date of the TB; income and expense accounts are presented for the time frame of the fiscal period being reported on, i.e., for a months, three months or for one year. unquote I am working my way through the rest of this thread. I will get there yet. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
> On May 19, 2023, at 09:40, Michael or Penny Novack > wrote: > > On 5/18/2023 11:56 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: >> Per the documentation: >> >> >> 10.3.5.11. Trial Balance >> >> >> Trial Balance lists the ending balances in all accounts as of a particular >> date. It is typically run at the end of an accounting period and is >> primarily used to ensure that the total of all debits equals the total of >> all credits. >> >> >> By definition, that means there *isn't* a start date. >> >> David T. > > > Also do note --- the trial balance was an important tool in the old days of > pen and ink on paper bookkeeping. All sorts of errors while entering numbers > or transcribing them during posting could lead to a condition of total debits > not equaling total credits. In other words, this was your warning that there > was an error somewhere, and that this error has a date in between the > previous date a trial balance was run and found correct and this one. > > You did not proceed with other reports, closing the books, etc. until the > error was found and corrected and the trial balance "clean". > > Might I point out that computerized accounting software like gnucash will NOT > allow entry of an out of balance transaction nor will a transcription error > be made. When I say won't allow I am including the special accounts orphan > and imbalance. In other words, you CAN enter a transaction not in balance as > far as the intended accounts are concerned; but the out of balance amount > will be a debit or credit in imbalance. So .. > > A non-zero balance in the special account imbalance is just like a trial > balance not being in balance. I have never run a trial balance using gnucash, > just confirmed that the balance of imbalance was zero. > > Michael D Novack > > PS --- a clean trial balance does NOT mean the books are free of error. Just > that free of certain kinds of error. There are many other sorts of errors > possible (like putting something in the wrong account) that will not throw a > trial balance out of balance. That's all correct *as long as there's only one commodity in the book*. As soon as you introduce a second commodity you have the opportunity for failing to record trading gains and losses and that will cause the book to be out of balance even though all of the transactions balance. This will be apparent if there's an automatically generated Realized Gains or Realized Losses line on the balance sheet report. The Trial Balance report with the price source set to average cost is the best tool for finding the accounts that need their gains or losses accounted for. Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
Just send him a trial balance AND the income statement and balance sheet. The "closed books" trial balance he wants is going to look similar to the balance sheet plus income statement stacked anyway, just without totals. The trial balance will let him see that nothing from the other two reports is missing. Alternatively, you can put the Dec 31 2021 and Dec 31 2022 balance sheets next to each other and just take the difference between the income statement items as the amounts to display, then reverse the total of those to equity, but that is probably more trouble than it's worth. On 2023-05-19 06:09 AM, Rogier F. van Vlissingen wrote: Thanks for that. I gotta have a serious talk with my accountant. He objected to the report and it sent me wondering. On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 11:56 PM David T. wrote: Per the documentation: 10.3.5.11. Trial Balance Trial Balance lists the ending balances in all accounts as of a particular date. It is typically run at the end of an accounting period and is primarily used to ensure that the total of all debits equals the total of all credits. By definition, that means there *isn't* a start date. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
On 5/18/2023 11:56 PM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote: Per the documentation: 10.3.5.11. Trial Balance Trial Balance lists the ending balances in all accounts as of a particular date. It is typically run at the end of an accounting period and is primarily used to ensure that the total of all debits equals the total of all credits. By definition, that means there *isn't* a start date. David T. Also do note --- the trial balance was an important tool in the old days of pen and ink on paper bookkeeping. All sorts of errors while entering numbers or transcribing them during posting could lead to a condition of total debits not equaling total credits. In other words, this was your warning that there was an error somewhere, and that this error has a date in between the previous date a trial balance was run and found correct and this one. You did not proceed with other reports, closing the books, etc. until the error was found and corrected and the trial balance "clean". Might I point out that computerized accounting software like gnucash will NOT allow entry of an out of balance transaction nor will a transcription error be made. When I say won't allow I am including the special accounts orphan and imbalance. In other words, you CAN enter a transaction not in balance as far as the intended accounts are concerned; but the out of balance amount will be a debit or credit in imbalance. So .. A non-zero balance in the special account imbalance is just like a trial balance not being in balance. I have never run a trial balance using gnucash, just confirmed that the balance of imbalance was zero. Michael D Novack PS --- a clean trial balance does NOT mean the books are free of error. Just that free of certain kinds of error. There are many other sorts of errors possible (like putting something in the wrong account) that will not throw a trial balance out of balance. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
In the pen & paper days, the Trial Balance would effectively *appear* to be for just the current period (year) but that is only because Income & Expense accounts would be closed to Equity in prior years. (retained earnings, e.g.) With GnuCash, you don't have to zero these accounts as it can do the math for reports properly without such a step. The end result however is the same. If it isn't then you quite likely have an error you need to track down. Regards, Adrien On 5/19/23 5:09 AM, Rogier F. van Vlissingen wrote: Thanks for that. I gotta have a serious talk with my accountant. He objected to the report and it sent me wondering. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
Thanks for that. I gotta have a serious talk with my accountant. He objected to the report and it sent me wondering. On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 11:56 PM David T. wrote: > Per the documentation: > > > 10.3.5.11. Trial Balance > > > Trial Balance lists the ending balances in all accounts as of a particular > date. It is typically run at the end of an accounting period and is > primarily used to ensure that the total of all debits equals the total of > all credits. > > > By definition, that means there *isn't* a start date. > > David T. > On May 18, 2023, at 11:38 PM, "Rogier F. van Vlissingen" < > vlisc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> somehow or other I had a discrepancy between my trial balance and my P >> and it turns out that the 22 trial balance is picking up transactions from >> 20 and 21. >> >> What I cannot figure out is where to set the opening date for the trial >> balance. >> -- >> >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> - >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
Per the documentation: 10.3.5.11. Trial Balance Trial Balance lists the ending balances in all accounts as of a particular date. It is typically run at the end of an accounting period and is primarily used to ensure that the total of all debits equals the total of all credits. By definition, that means there *isn't* a start date. David T. On May 18, 2023, 11:38 PM, at 11:38 PM, "Rogier F. van Vlissingen" wrote: >somehow or other I had a discrepancy between my trial balance and my >P >and it turns out that the 22 trial balance is picking up transactions >from >20 and 21. > >What I cannot figure out is where to set the opening date for the trial >balance. >___ >gnucash-user mailing list >gnucash-user@gnucash.org >To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >- >Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] report cutoffs - Trial Balance opening date
somehow or other I had a discrepancy between my trial balance and my P and it turns out that the 22 trial balance is picking up transactions from 20 and 21. What I cannot figure out is where to set the opening date for the trial balance. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
