Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
On 12/6/18 7:41 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: DIW writes: Hi Derek, I tried the Autofill method you describe. It was indeed a revelation. Thank you. For years I have been using the Duplicate Transaction method. Though it didn't jump to to edit the amount nor did it edit the contra account - if I understood you correctly? I'm not sure what you mean here. When you tab out of the description and it autofills the transaction, the next cell you get to should be the amount, so you can change the amount for the current transaction. It skips over the transfer account. IFF the transaction is a basic, 2-split transaction (and you're in basic ledger mode) then if you adjust the amount it will also also adjust the contra-account amount. HOWEVER, if it's a split transaction, or if you're in an expanded-view ledger mode then no, it will not adjust the contra amount -- you will have to edit it manually. That explains why I'm not seeing this behavior. I always show the expanded splits (ledger mode?). That said, using autofill, tab, is a much better method, just as you say. I see that I have started an interesting discussion on the subject :-) Indeed, you have. Regards Dave W Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com kg...@arrl.net 253-350-0166 --- GnuPG Fingerprint: 8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
DIW writes: > Hi Derek, > > I tried the Autofill method you describe. > > It was indeed a revelation. > Thank you. For years I have been using the Duplicate Transaction > method. Though it didn't jump to to edit the amount nor did it edit > the contra account - if I understood you correctly? I'm not sure what you mean here. When you tab out of the description and it autofills the transaction, the next cell you get to should be the amount, so you can change the amount for the current transaction. It skips over the transfer account. IFF the transaction is a basic, 2-split transaction (and you're in basic ledger mode) then if you adjust the amount it will also also adjust the contra-account amount. HOWEVER, if it's a split transaction, or if you're in an expanded-view ledger mode then no, it will not adjust the contra amount -- you will have to edit it manually. > That said, using autofill, tab, is a much better method, just as you > say. > > I see that I have started an interesting discussion on the subject :-) Indeed, you have. > Regards > Dave W > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
On Mon, 03 Dec 2018 19:20:08 -0500 Derek Atkins wrote: > Hi, > > David wasserman writes: > > > Okay John, I will try to be clearer. > > > > I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my > > bank account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: > > Account to Debit; Account to credit and their respective $ > > amounts. However, if this is an entry I make frequently I will > > scroll up to the last time I made a similar > > transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the > > date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts > > date>allocated > > and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I > > edit the Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit > > side. > > > > I would like it to mirror my edit on the Credit contra account - > > assuming the whole transaction consists of a single Debit line and > > Credit line, respectively. > > > > As I say, this is not a major issue in any sense. I was just > > wondering, hoping, that there is a switch somewhere to accomplish > > that rule. > > You do realize that you could just use Autofill, right? > > GnuCash will assume that if you enter in the same Description then it > will auto-fill the rest of transaction. I.e., you can go to an > account, enter in the "current" date, type in a description you've > used before, then hit "tab" and GnuCash will fill in the rest of the > transaction as before, including transfer account(s), and amounts. > Then will will jump to and let you edit the amount. > > This works in the contra-account as well, although we really recommend > you enter transactions only from Asset and Liability accounts and not > Income or Expense accounts. > > If the transaction is a basic, 2-split transaction then if you edit > the amount it will properly edit the other-account amount, too. > > I think this will work better than your "duplicate" method. Try it. > > > Regards > > Dave W > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > -derek > Hi Derek, I tried the Autofill method you describe. It was indeed a revelation. Thank you. For years I have been using the Duplicate Transaction method. Though it didn't jump to to edit the amount nor did it edit the contra account - if I understood you correctly? That said, using autofill, tab, is a much better method, just as you say. I see that I have started an interesting discussion on the subject :-) Regards Dave W ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Davids, John This is just an aside for terminology clarification and being a trifle pedantic. Although the meaning is clear where you have used contra in this context, the term contra account is generally used in accounting with a very specific meaning which is unrelated to the usage here to describe the account which is debited or credited in the second split. The general use is to describe a situation where one has an account whereone needs to preserve the original value and simulataneously record changes in that value. For example the purchase price of an asset, where that asset is subject to deprectiation. One normally sets up a structure similar to the following Asset:Plant Asset:Plant:Initial Cost Asset:Plant:Depreciation where Asset:Plant is a Placeholder into which the two sub accounts sum. Asset:Plant:Depreciation is what is usually referred to in accounting as a contra account because in most cases, but not always, the balance in this Depreciation account is increased by credits to the account, i.e. it has a credit balance wheras the Asset:Plant placeholder and Asset:Plant:Initial Cost accounts have a debit balance and the balance is increased in them by debits to the account. The overall balance of the Asset:Plant account is determined by the Initial Cost - Depreciation. There are lots of other situations where a contra account is used in this way in accounting, mainly to preserve information which will be required in the future for assessing things like capital gains tax or profit or loss on a particular item. I have often tried unsucessfully to think of a more appropriate terminology for the other accounts referred to in balancing a transaction. Elsewhere in the GnuCash documentation it is sometimes referred to as a transfer account which is as appropriate a description as I have been able to find in any accounting text books. David Cousens - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Beyond inconvenience questions, I think error questions are more weighty. If the engine creates a balancing split, you see it and react. And if, for some reason, you don't see it, you'll catch it later by noticing that the imbalance account has non-zero balance. On the other hand, if gnucash changes the other split and that's not what you meant, but for some reason you accept the transaction anyway (say because hitting return is a highly ingrained behaviour), it would be very difficult to catch later. (It also introduces weird behaviours where the engine has to keep track of how many times you've edited splits and in what order in order to know when to create an error split or adjust some other split. That quickly becomes non-intuitive for users.) Jeff On 03/12/18 23:11, David Cousens wrote: > Dave, > > The problem for GnuCash is that when you have duplicated a previous > transaction and then edit it, GnuCash has no way of knowing what your > intentions are. The engine is currently setup to maintain a transaction in > balance as it is edited. When you change the value of one split of the > transaction, the engine is designed to calculate the difference between the > new sum of the splits and zero and allocate that to the Imbalance account > which simplifies creating transactions with 2 or more splits. > > It would be feasible in principle to detect whether the editeded transaction > only has two splits and to adjust the value of the second split rather than > the imbalance account in that case. How easy that is to do will require a > close look at how the engine manages the balancing. > > This introduces a further complication however. If your intention was to > change this to a transaction with 3 or more splits. You could not do what > you would do at present which is edit the existing two splits into an > imbalanced state and have GnuCash create the 3rd split automatically and > allocate it to the Imbalance account which you then reassign to the account > you desire that split to go to. > > You would have to create the split to the third account and assign it a > value first to break the two split calculation as above out of the two split > mode rather than just edit the existing splits. > > It will be a judgement call as to how many users would be inconvenienced by > the current approach relative to those who would then be inconvenienced if > it was changed as described above. > > Perhaps raise a feature enhancement request at bug.gnucash.org. > > David Cousens > > > > - > David Cousens > -- > Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -- Jeff Abrahamson +33 6 24 40 01 57 +44 7920 594 255 http://p27.eu/jeff/ http://transport-nantes.com/ ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Hi, David wasserman writes: > Okay John, I will try to be clearer. > > I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my bank > account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: Account to Debit; > Account to credit and their respective $ amounts. However, if this is an > entry I make frequently I will scroll up to the last time I made a similar > transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the > date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts allocated > and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I edit the > Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit side. > > I would like it to mirror my edit on the Credit contra account - assuming > the whole transaction consists of a single Debit line and Credit line, > respectively. > > As I say, this is not a major issue in any sense. I was just wondering, > hoping, that there is a switch somewhere to accomplish that rule. You do realize that you could just use Autofill, right? GnuCash will assume that if you enter in the same Description then it will auto-fill the rest of transaction. I.e., you can go to an account, enter in the "current" date, type in a description you've used before, then hit "tab" and GnuCash will fill in the rest of the transaction as before, including transfer account(s), and amounts. Then will will jump to and let you edit the amount. This works in the contra-account as well, although we really recommend you enter transactions only from Asset and Liability accounts and not Income or Expense accounts. If the transaction is a basic, 2-split transaction then if you edit the amount it will properly edit the other-account amount, too. I think this will work better than your "duplicate" method. Try it. > Regards > Dave W > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warl...@mit.eduPGP key available ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Dave, The problem for GnuCash is that when you have duplicated a previous transaction and then edit it, GnuCash has no way of knowing what your intentions are. The engine is currently setup to maintain a transaction in balance as it is edited. When you change the value of one split of the transaction, the engine is designed to calculate the difference between the new sum of the splits and zero and allocate that to the Imbalance account which simplifies creating transactions with 2 or more splits. It would be feasible in principle to detect whether the editeded transaction only has two splits and to adjust the value of the second split rather than the imbalance account in that case. How easy that is to do will require a close look at how the engine manages the balancing. This introduces a further complication however. If your intention was to change this to a transaction with 3 or more splits. You could not do what you would do at present which is edit the existing two splits into an imbalanced state and have GnuCash create the 3rd split automatically and allocate it to the Imbalance account which you then reassign to the account you desire that split to go to. You would have to create the split to the third account and assign it a value first to break the two split calculation as above out of the two split mode rather than just edit the existing splits. It will be a judgement call as to how many users would be inconvenienced by the current approach relative to those who would then be inconvenienced if it was changed as described above. Perhaps raise a feature enhancement request at bug.gnucash.org. David Cousens - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
On 12/3/18 9:16 AM, David Carlson wrote: Interesting idea... I would like to see it implemented as a pop-up dialog asking the user if (s)he would like to update the 'other side' to the same value if it is a simple two line transaction. If the user closes the transaction without responding yes the imbalance amount is entered. David C I too have thought it would be nice. Not only when you deliberately duplicate a transaction but also when GNC pops in the last entered transaction of the same "name" as the template. I would like the option to turn off the pop-up for a simple two line transaction. Just do it! Now, a multi-line transaction will be harder. Even there I'm wondering if you could flag certain lines to be "static" and reduce it own to just two "dynamic" lines. For example, the monthly mortgage payment which consists of: A. Principal amount -- dynamic B. Interest amount -- dynamic C. Escrow amount -- static (changes annually) D. Bank deduction -- static (changes if escrow changed). If you changed the amount applied to principal then the interest amount would change to keep the transaction in balance. Definitely easier to do with the two line transaction. On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 6:07 AM David wasserman wrote: Okay John, I will try to be clearer. I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my bank account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: Account to Debit; Account to credit and their respective $ amounts. However, if this is an entry I make frequently I will scroll up to the last time I made a similar transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts allocated and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I edit the Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit side. I would like it to mirror my edit on the Credit contra account - assuming the whole transaction consists of a single Debit line and Credit line, respectively. As I say, this is not a major issue in any sense. I was just wondering, hoping, that there is a switch somewhere to accomplish that rule. Regards Dave W On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:05 AM John Ralls wrote: On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:33 AM, David wasserman wrote: I have the habit of duplicating previous transactions rather than entering the whole thing afresh. It occurs to me that in a simple Debit and Credit entry that it may be possible to have the contra entry mimic the first amount, either entered or edited. Not a big problem but a niggle that I have. Could you explain that in a bit more detail? Regards, John Ralls -- Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com kg...@arrl.net 253-350-0166 --- GnuPG Fingerprint: 8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 23:02, David wasserman said: > Okay John, I will try to be clearer. > > I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my bank > account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: Account to Debit; > Account to credit and their respective $ amounts. However, if this is an > entry I make frequently I will scroll up to the last time I made a similar > transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the > date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts allocated > and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I edit > the Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit side. Not if you are in Basic Ledger view, it doesn't (unless there are multiple Credit splits, when obviously it won't know how to adjust them without being told). ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Interesting idea... I would like to see it implemented as a pop-up dialog asking the user if (s)he would like to update the 'other side' to the same value if it is a simple two line transaction. If the user closes the transaction without responding yes the imbalance amount is entered. David C On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 6:07 AM David wasserman wrote: > Okay John, I will try to be clearer. > > I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my bank > account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: Account to Debit; > Account to credit and their respective $ amounts. However, if this is an > entry I make frequently I will scroll up to the last time I made a similar > transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the > date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts allocated > and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I edit the > Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit side. > > I would like it to mirror my edit on the Credit contra account - assuming > the whole transaction consists of a single Debit line and Credit line, > respectively. > > As I say, this is not a major issue in any sense. I was just wondering, > hoping, that there is a switch somewhere to accomplish that rule. > > Regards > Dave W > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:05 AM John Ralls > wrote: > > > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:33 AM, David wasserman > > wrote: > > > > > > I have the habit of duplicating previous transactions rather than > > entering > > > the whole thing afresh. > > > > > > It occurs to me that in a simple Debit and Credit entry that it may be > > > possible to have the contra entry mimic the first amount, either > entered > > or > > > edited. > > > > > > Not a big problem but a niggle that I have. > > > > Could you explain that in a bit more detail? > > > > Regards, > > John Ralls > > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
Okay John, I will try to be clearer. I am talking about inputting a new entry into an account. Say, my bank account. So, in the register I could enter Date; Notes: Account to Debit; Account to credit and their respective $ amounts. However, if this is an entry I make frequently I will scroll up to the last time I made a similar transaction> right click>select "Duplicate Transaction">enter the date>press OK and I am provided with a new transaction, accounts allocated and all. But, the $ amount may be different to what I want. So I edit the Debit and that forces an "Imbalance" entry on the Credit side. I would like it to mirror my edit on the Credit contra account - assuming the whole transaction consists of a single Debit line and Credit line, respectively. As I say, this is not a major issue in any sense. I was just wondering, hoping, that there is a switch somewhere to accomplish that rule. Regards Dave W On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 11:05 AM John Ralls wrote: > > > > On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:33 AM, David wasserman > wrote: > > > > I have the habit of duplicating previous transactions rather than > entering > > the whole thing afresh. > > > > It occurs to me that in a simple Debit and Credit entry that it may be > > possible to have the contra entry mimic the first amount, either entered > or > > edited. > > > > Not a big problem but a niggle that I have. > > Could you explain that in a bit more detail? > > Regards, > John Ralls > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to automate $ value on the contra account when editing a transaction
> On Dec 3, 2018, at 6:33 AM, David wasserman wrote: > > I have the habit of duplicating previous transactions rather than entering > the whole thing afresh. > > It occurs to me that in a simple Debit and Credit entry that it may be > possible to have the contra entry mimic the first amount, either entered or > edited. > > Not a big problem but a niggle that I have. Could you explain that in a bit more detail? Regards, John Ralls ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
