Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
If your previous entries are incorrect, you can fix them (if you so wish). Your shipping expenses will be non-zero if YOU pay the shipping. On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 1:48 PM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi Richard. > Thanks for your replies. > I probably understand now what you mean. This is how my entries look like > now: > > This way my "Shipping costs of sales" account should never be greater than > ZERO - right? I did it the wrong way probably for the previous 2 sales > entries?! > > BR, > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2024 um 20:41 Uhr schrieb R Losey : > >> The wonder and beauty of GnuCash is that you can do whatever works for >> you... as long as the end results are correct. These days, I prefer to >> enter an action as one transaction with multiple splits; in the past, I >> used to use multiple transactions for an action. >> >> Remember, since the buyer is paying you for shipping expenses, your net >> change in that account should be zero. So, the money he pays you is a >> "credit" in the Expenses account (right-hand side). [It will be labeled >> "Rebate" because you have formal accounting labels turned off, but don't >> worry about that.] >> >> Remember, at some time in the future, you will have to pay money for >> shipping, so there will be an entry for that with 35,49 leaving the >> checking account, and going into shipping expenses as an "Expense" (in >> formal terms, a "debit") that will zero out the other 35,49 entry. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 11:48 AM Boniforti Flavio >> wrote: >> >>> I think this is the only reference to the income into my checking account >>> (from my initial post): >>> >>> "I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total >>> Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account." >>> >>> Thanks anyways - probably it's best for me not to try and put everything >>> from this sale into one transaction (with multiple splits). I'm not >>> understanding how to make it work :-( >>> It will look weird, but I could enter 3 transactions of "income" into my >>> checking account: 800 (which I use to "zero" the value of my instrument), >>> 35,49 (for the shipping) and a third one which goes into my "gain"... >>> What do you think? >>> >>> F. >>> >>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >>> >>> >>> Am Sa., 23. Nov. 2024 um 17:37 Uhr schrieb Michael or Penny Novack via >>> gnucash-user : >>> >>> > On 11/23/2024 7:58 AM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: >>> > > Hi Richard. >>> > > It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value >>> of >>> > the >>> > > goods and the shipping costs. >>> > > F. >>> > >>> > It would have helped me give you advice had you said that earlier. >>> > Except you DID say that you had deposited the (entire) payment. So you >>> > left out of the description how you paid for the shipping. >>> > >>> > Michael D Novack >>> > >>> > >>> > ___ >>> > gnucash-user mailing list >>> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> > - >>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> > >>> ___ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> - >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >> >> >> -- >> _ >> Richard Losey >> rlo...@gmail.com >> Micah 6:8 >> > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Thanks David - now I understand that bit as well. F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Mo., 25. Nov. 2024 um 20:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > Flavio, > > Even as a private individual you will be subject to at least taxation > legislation regarding income. The business legislation may or may not > apply depending on the level of activity. My wife is an artist, > formerly making her living from exhibitions and painting sales. We are > now retired and these days she only occasionally sells paintings mainly > to close friends - any income earned from that for example is > reportable, although not necessarily taxed. The devil is in the detail > here, hence our suggestions about getting professional advice. > > David > > > > On Mon, 2024-11-25 at 18:25 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi David. > > No taxation and regulations needed here: I'm a private individual, > > not a business. > > > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 19:58 Uhr schrieb David Cousens > > : > > > Boniforti, > > > > > > This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all > > > depends on the business legislation and taxation legislation and > > > often on regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form > > > of agreement you reached with the buyer and the documentation of > > > that that you have. > > > > > > If your taxation authority has an advisory service you could > > > contact them for advice about whether you treat shipping as an > > > expense or liability. If you issued an invoice or receipt to the > > > buyer which specified the price of the instrument, and the shipping > > > costs and the total of 1214Eu, then there is a good chance the > > > shipping costs are effectively considered as being paid by the > > > buyer, so on receipt of the funds, that creates an obligation on > > > you to pay for the shipping, i.e. a liability as the funds are only > > > being passed to the shipper through you, so the second treatment is > > > most likely to be appropriate but I cannot know for sure. > > > > > > Cheers > > > David > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 09:14 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > > > Hi David. > > > > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is > > > > giving me the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right > > > > that I could separate this sale and just enter two transactions > > > > in my checking account? One would be the shipping costs, the > > > > other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I then would have two different > > > > "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg MS-20M" account and > > > > for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this work? > > > > > > > > F. > > > > > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens > > > > : > > > > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the > > > > > shipping > > > > > costs. > > > > > > > > > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an > > > > > expense to the > > > > > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly > > > > > included > > > > > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > > > > > > > > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > > > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > > > > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > > > > > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > > > > > > > > > when the funds are received > > > > > > > > > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > > > > > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > > > > > > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous > > > > > but > > > > > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > > > > > > > > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > > > > > > > > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase > > > > > price > > > > > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price > > > > > of the > > > > > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as > > > > > an > > > > > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > > > > > > > > > For this case it could be recorded as > > > > > > > > > > Asset BankDr 1178.51 > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > > > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > > > > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > > > > > > > > > Asset:BankDr 35.49 > > > > > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 > > > > > > > > > > when the funds are received > > > > > > > > > > and when the shipping is paid > > > > > > > > > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > > > > > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > > >
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Flavio, Even as a private individual you will be subject to at least taxation legislation regarding income. The business legislation may or may not apply depending on the level of activity. My wife is an artist, formerly making her living from exhibitions and painting sales. We are now retired and these days she only occasionally sells paintings mainly to close friends - any income earned from that for example is reportable, although not necessarily taxed. The devil is in the detail here, hence our suggestions about getting professional advice. David On Mon, 2024-11-25 at 18:25 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi David. > No taxation and regulations needed here: I'm a private individual, > not a business. > > F. > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 19:58 Uhr schrieb David Cousens > : > > Boniforti, > > > > This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all > > depends on the business legislation and taxation legislation and > > often on regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form > > of agreement you reached with the buyer and the documentation of > > that that you have. > > > > If your taxation authority has an advisory service you could > > contact them for advice about whether you treat shipping as an > > expense or liability. If you issued an invoice or receipt to the > > buyer which specified the price of the instrument, and the shipping > > costs and the total of 1214Eu, then there is a good chance the > > shipping costs are effectively considered as being paid by the > > buyer, so on receipt of the funds, that creates an obligation on > > you to pay for the shipping, i.e. a liability as the funds are only > > being passed to the shipper through you, so the second treatment is > > most likely to be appropriate but I cannot know for sure. > > > > Cheers > > David > > > > > > On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 09:14 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > > Hi David. > > > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is > > > giving me the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right > > > that I could separate this sale and just enter two transactions > > > in my checking account? One would be the shipping costs, the > > > other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I then would have two different > > > "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg MS-20M" account and > > > for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this work? > > > > > > F. > > > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens > > > : > > > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the > > > > shipping > > > > costs. > > > > > > > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an > > > > expense to the > > > > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly > > > > included > > > > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > > > > > > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > > > > > > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > > > Asset:Bank Account Dr 1241.00 > > > > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > > > > > > > when the funds are received > > > > > > > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > > > > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > > > > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous > > > > but > > > > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > > > > > > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > > > > > > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase > > > > price > > > > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price > > > > of the > > > > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as > > > > an > > > > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > > > > > > > For this case it could be recorded as > > > > > > > > Asset Bank Dr 1178.51 > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > > > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > > > > > > > Asset:Bank Dr 35.49 > > > > Liability:Shipping Cr 35.49 > > > > > > > > when the funds are received > > > > > > > > and when the shipping is paid > > > > > > > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > > > > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > > > > > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 > > > > > > > > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales > > > > invoice. > > > > > > > > David Cousens > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > > > > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, > > > > > just have > > > > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't > > > > > know if > > > > > you > > > > > m
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
The wonder and beauty of GnuCash is that you can do whatever works for you... as long as the end results are correct. These days, I prefer to enter an action as one transaction with multiple splits; in the past, I used to use multiple transactions for an action. Remember, since the buyer is paying you for shipping expenses, your net change in that account should be zero. So, the money he pays you is a "credit" in the Expenses account (right-hand side). [It will be labeled "Rebate" because you have formal accounting labels turned off, but don't worry about that.] Remember, at some time in the future, you will have to pay money for shipping, so there will be an entry for that with 35,49 leaving the checking account, and going into shipping expenses as an "Expense" (in formal terms, a "debit") that will zero out the other 35,49 entry. On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 11:48 AM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > I think this is the only reference to the income into my checking account > (from my initial post): > > "I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account." > > Thanks anyways - probably it's best for me not to try and put everything > from this sale into one transaction (with multiple splits). I'm not > understanding how to make it work :-( > It will look weird, but I could enter 3 transactions of "income" into my > checking account: 800 (which I use to "zero" the value of my instrument), > 35,49 (for the shipping) and a third one which goes into my "gain"... > What do you think? > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Sa., 23. Nov. 2024 um 17:37 Uhr schrieb Michael or Penny Novack via > gnucash-user : > > > On 11/23/2024 7:58 AM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > > Hi Richard. > > > It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of > > the > > > goods and the shipping costs. > > > F. > > > > It would have helped me give you advice had you said that earlier. > > Except you DID say that you had deposited the (entire) payment. So you > > left out of the description how you paid for the shipping. > > > > Michael D Novack > > > > > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Well, it's not really a "rebate"; it's called that because, in most cases, expenses are just expenses, and anything on the other side is a rebate. However, this is a credit to shipping expenses, because you will then later have an expense entry to zero it out... after all, since the buyer is paying shipping costs, your net expenses should be zero. Don't let the column labels confuse you in this matter. You DO spend 50 for shipping, but the buyer paid you 50, so your actual shipping expenses should be zero. Think if you paid for shipping and THEN he paid you back -- you'd have a 50 "expense" and then a "rebate" or "payback" of 50. On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 11:36 AM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi Richard. > > Why should my "Shipping costs" account have a "rebate" value of 50 (using > your numbers)? I don't think it should be a rebate: instead it looks to me > that it should be an expense. The "shipping costs" account is an expense > type of account, therefore I think that I spent 50 Euros for shipping and > this has to increase the "shipping costs". With a rebate, it decreases > them... > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Sa., 23. Nov. 2024 um 14:48 Uhr schrieb R Losey : > >> Ah, well, that makes it simpler. How about something like the following? >> (I'm going to make up numbers instead of using yours). >> >> Your instrument: 800 >> Sold for 1000 >> Shipping is 50 >> Thus, buyer sends you a check for 1050 >> You write a check for 50 to SHIPPER to pay for shipping >> >> I would enter these as two transactions - the sale and the shipping >> payment. >> >> Transaction 1: >> Increase the bank account by 1050 (a "Deposit") >> decrease your instrument value by 800 >> your income from the sale increases by 200 >> the remaining 50 should go into shipping expenses (as a "Rebate") >> >> Transaction 2: >> Decrease the bank account by 50 >> Shipping expense should have an Expense of 50 >> >> >> Because the buyer is paying shipping, you don't really have any shipping >> expenses, but the way above, everything is recorded for future reference, >> if need be. The shipping expense account will show both an increase of 50 >> that the buyer paid in, and the decrease when the shipping was paid. >> >> How does that sound? >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 6:59 AM Boniforti Flavio >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Richard. >>> It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of >>> the goods and the shipping costs. >>> F. >>> >>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >>> >>> >>> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey : >>> Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment? If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would use two transactions. On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi David. > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is > giving me > the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could > separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking > account? > One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I > then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the > "Korg > MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could > this > work? > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < > davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping > > costs. > > > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to > the > > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly > included > > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > > > when the funds are received > > > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > > ideally better to keep the
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Thanks anyways - probably it's best for me not to try and put everything from this sale into one transaction (with multiple splits). I'm not understanding how to make it work :-( It will look weird, but I could enter 3 transactions of "income" into my checking account: 800 (which I use to "zero" the value of my instrument), 35,49 (for the shipping) and a third one which goes into my "gain"... What do you think? Often you can get around having to do a split transact by using more than one. For example, sell an item of inventory (basis X) for Y you could do two transactions. One: Debit cash and credit sales Y. Two: Debit cost of goods sold and credit inventory batch X. Clunky, but easy. However, that was a special case. In general, the debits and credits need not be the same (just total debits = total credits). So if that had been debits of 6 and 4 and credits of 7 and 3 going to have to do it with a split transaction. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/25/2024 12:25 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: Hi David. No taxation and regulations needed here: I'm a private individual, not a business. It's why we can't advise on stuff like THAT. The rules depend on jurisdiction as well as status. Here in the US technically status does not matter (in theory individuals also own "gains" tax) but practicality. For example, here in th US an individual would in theory owe but in reality they don't look at small stuff like that. But if that was a cello you bought for 10,000, spent 2,000 to get it refurbished, and then ended up selling it for 20,000, maybe better report. But with status + jurisdiction can get very complicated. Thus if HERE and an organization the account "shipping cost" would be a parent with two children, "postal" and "non-postal" << total printing and postage is a line item expense on the 990/990EZ --- note: non-profit orgs aren't paying taxes, for some reason the gov't just wants to know how much of what the non-profit spends on is coming back to the gov't in this way >> In other words, would matter HOW shipped, not just what that cost. Understand? WE don't know, until you tell us, whether will need to take account of taxes. Michael d Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
I think this is the only reference to the income into my checking account (from my initial post): "I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account." Thanks anyways - probably it's best for me not to try and put everything from this sale into one transaction (with multiple splits). I'm not understanding how to make it work :-( It will look weird, but I could enter 3 transactions of "income" into my checking account: 800 (which I use to "zero" the value of my instrument), 35,49 (for the shipping) and a third one which goes into my "gain"... What do you think? F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Sa., 23. Nov. 2024 um 17:37 Uhr schrieb Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user : > On 11/23/2024 7:58 AM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi Richard. > > It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of > the > > goods and the shipping costs. > > F. > > It would have helped me give you advice had you said that earlier. > Except you DID say that you had deposited the (entire) payment. So you > left out of the description how you paid for the shipping. > > Michael D Novack > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi Richard. Why should my "Shipping costs" account have a "rebate" value of 50 (using your numbers)? I don't think it should be a rebate: instead it looks to me that it should be an expense. The "shipping costs" account is an expense type of account, therefore I think that I spent 50 Euros for shipping and this has to increase the "shipping costs". With a rebate, it decreases them... F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Sa., 23. Nov. 2024 um 14:48 Uhr schrieb R Losey : > Ah, well, that makes it simpler. How about something like the following? > (I'm going to make up numbers instead of using yours). > > Your instrument: 800 > Sold for 1000 > Shipping is 50 > Thus, buyer sends you a check for 1050 > You write a check for 50 to SHIPPER to pay for shipping > > I would enter these as two transactions - the sale and the shipping > payment. > > Transaction 1: > Increase the bank account by 1050 (a "Deposit") > decrease your instrument value by 800 > your income from the sale increases by 200 > the remaining 50 should go into shipping expenses (as a "Rebate") > > Transaction 2: > Decrease the bank account by 50 > Shipping expense should have an Expense of 50 > > > Because the buyer is paying shipping, you don't really have any shipping > expenses, but the way above, everything is recorded for future reference, > if need be. The shipping expense account will show both an increase of 50 > that the buyer paid in, and the decrease when the shipping was paid. > > How does that sound? > > > > On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 6:59 AM Boniforti Flavio > wrote: > >> Hi Richard. >> It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of >> the goods and the shipping costs. >> F. >> >> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >> >> >> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey : >> >>> Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is >>> giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is >>> providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would >>> record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is >>> the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment? >>> If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he >>> gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would >>> use two transactions. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio >>> wrote: >>> Hi David. Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account? One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this work? F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping > costs. > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > when the funds are received > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > For this case it could be recorded as > > Asset BankDr 1178.51 > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > Asset:BankDr 35.49 > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 > > when the funds are received > > and when the shipping is paid > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > Liabi
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi Stan. You're right - it's not GNC, it's my (lack of) accounting knowledge. I might give a repeated read of chapter 2 - in the meantime I am still thankful for all the people on this list who are giving advices and helping me (and others) out. F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 21:40 Uhr schrieb Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) < stan...@fastmail.fm>: > On 2024-11-22 10:57, David Cousens wrote: > > This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all > > depends on the business legislation and taxation legislation and often > > on regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form of > > agreement you reached with the buyer and the documentation of that that > > you have. > > Quite possibly. IIRC, Flavio isn't operating a business, but we don't > know whether Switzerland imposes any tax on these private sales. > > What Flavio _does_ really really need, in my opinion, is to read Chapter > 2 of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, and read it again until he's > mastered it. He would save himself a lot of confusion if he would get > absolutely clear in his head about debits versus credits, and the effect > of a debit or credit on each type of account. Instead, it seems > to me that he's just throwing splits together and then asking on this > list about one transaction after another. Asking about every tree is not > an efficient way to learn about the forest. > > GnuCash isn't hard to use, as software goes, but it's not very forgiving > to folks who just dive in without understanding double-entry bookkeeping. > > Stan Brown > Tehachapi, CA, USA > https://BrownMath.com/ > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi David. No taxation and regulations needed here: I'm a private individual, not a business. F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 19:58 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > Boniforti, > > This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all depends > on the business legislation and taxation legislation and often on > regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form of agreement you > reached with the buyer and the documentation of that that you have. > > If your taxation authority has an advisory service you could contact them > for advice about whether you treat shipping as an expense or liability. If > you issued an invoice or receipt to the buyer which specified the price of > the instrument, and the shipping costs and the total of 1214Eu, then there > is a good chance the shipping costs are effectively considered as being > paid by the buyer, so on receipt of the funds, that creates an obligation > on you to pay for the shipping, i.e. a liability as the funds are only > being passed to the shipper through you, so the second treatment is most > likely to be appropriate but I cannot know for sure. > > Cheers > David > > > On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 09:14 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi David. > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me > the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could > separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account? > One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I > then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg > MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this > work? > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < > davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping > costs. > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > when the funds are received > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > For this case it could be recorded as > > Asset BankDr 1178.51 > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > Asset:BankDr 35.49 > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 > > when the funds are received > > and when the shipping is paid > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 > > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales > invoice. > > David Cousens > > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if > > you > > meant to make that account an expense account. > > > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in > > this > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the > > Income > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > > > dedicated > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > > > "Total > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > > > added > > > splits: > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > > > don't > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > > > the > > > sel
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/23/2024 7:58 AM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: Hi Richard. It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of the goods and the shipping costs. F. It would have helped me give you advice had you said that earlier. Except you DID say that you had deposited the (entire) payment. So you left out of the description how you paid for the shipping. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Ah, well, that makes it simpler. How about something like the following? (I'm going to make up numbers instead of using yours). Your instrument: 800 Sold for 1000 Shipping is 50 Thus, buyer sends you a check for 1050 You write a check for 50 to SHIPPER to pay for shipping I would enter these as two transactions - the sale and the shipping payment. Transaction 1: Increase the bank account by 1050 (a "Deposit") decrease your instrument value by 800 your income from the sale increases by 200 the remaining 50 should go into shipping expenses (as a "Rebate") Transaction 2: Decrease the bank account by 50 Shipping expense should have an Expense of 50 Because the buyer is paying shipping, you don't really have any shipping expenses, but the way above, everything is recorded for future reference, if need be. The shipping expense account will show both an increase of 50 that the buyer paid in, and the decrease when the shipping was paid. How does that sound? On Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 6:59 AM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi Richard. > It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of > the goods and the shipping costs. > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey : > >> Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is >> giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is >> providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would >> record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is >> the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment? >> If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he >> gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would >> use two transactions. >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio >> wrote: >> >>> Hi David. >>> Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving >>> me >>> the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could >>> separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking >>> account? >>> One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I >>> then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the >>> "Korg >>> MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this >>> work? >>> >>> F. >>> >>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >>> >>> >>> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < >>> davidcousen...@gmail.com>: >>> >>> > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping >>> > costs. >>> > >>> > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the >>> > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included >>> > in the purchase price and would be paid. >>> > >>> > For a business this could be recorded as >>> > >>> > >>> > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 >>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 >>> > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 >>> > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 >>> > >>> > when the funds are received >>> > >>> > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 >>> > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 >>> > >>> > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but >>> > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) >>> > >>> > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 >>> > >>> > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price >>> > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the >>> > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an >>> > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. >>> > >>> > For this case it could be recorded as >>> > >>> > Asset BankDr 1178.51 >>> > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 >>> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 >>> > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 >>> > >>> > Asset:BankDr 35.49 >>> > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 >>> > >>> > when the funds are received >>> > >>> > and when the shipping is paid >>> > >>> > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 >>> > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 >>> > >>> > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 >>> > >>> > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales >>> > invoice. >>> > >>> > David Cousens >>> > >>> > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: >>> > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have >>> > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if >>> > > you >>> > > meant to make that account an expense account. >>> > > >>> > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. >>> > > >>> > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in >>> > > this >>> > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense,
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi Richard. It's one payment I got from the buyer, which includes both the value of the goods and the shipping costs. F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 18:10 Uhr schrieb R Losey : > Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is > giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is > providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would > record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is > the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment? > If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he > gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would > use two transactions. > > > On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio > wrote: > >> Hi David. >> Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me >> the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could >> separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account? >> One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I >> then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the >> "Korg >> MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this >> work? >> >> F. >> >> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music >> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music >> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com >> >> >> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < >> davidcousen...@gmail.com>: >> >> > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping >> > costs. >> > >> > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the >> > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included >> > in the purchase price and would be paid. >> > >> > For a business this could be recorded as >> > >> > >> > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 >> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 >> > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 >> > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 >> > >> > when the funds are received >> > >> > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 >> > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 >> > >> > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but >> > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) >> > >> > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 >> > >> > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price >> > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the >> > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an >> > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. >> > >> > For this case it could be recorded as >> > >> > Asset BankDr 1178.51 >> > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 >> > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 >> > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 >> > >> > Asset:BankDr 35.49 >> > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 >> > >> > when the funds are received >> > >> > and when the shipping is paid >> > >> > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 >> > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 >> > >> > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 >> > >> > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales >> > invoice. >> > >> > David Cousens >> > >> > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: >> > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have >> > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if >> > > you >> > > meant to make that account an expense account. >> > > >> > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. >> > > >> > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in >> > > this >> > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the >> > > Income >> > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? >> > > >> > > >> > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio >> > > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi all. >> > > > >> > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a >> > > > dedicated >> > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". >> > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. >> > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the >> > > > "Total >> > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I >> > > > added >> > > > splits: >> > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I >> > > > don't >> > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; >> > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = >> > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" >> > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to >> > > > the >> > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" >> > > > >> > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the >> > > >
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 2024-11-22 10:57, David Cousens wrote: > This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all > depends on the business legislation and taxation legislation and often > on regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form of > agreement you reached with the buyer and the documentation of that that > you have. Quite possibly. IIRC, Flavio isn't operating a business, but we don't know whether Switzerland imposes any tax on these private sales. What Flavio _does_ really really need, in my opinion, is to read Chapter 2 of the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, and read it again until he's mastered it. He would save himself a lot of confusion if he would get absolutely clear in his head about debits versus credits, and the effect of a debit or credit on each type of account. Instead, it seems to me that he's just throwing splits together and then asking on this list about one transaction after another. Asking about every tree is not an efficient way to learn about the forest. GnuCash isn't hard to use, as software goes, but it's not very forgiving to folks who just dive in without understanding double-entry bookkeeping. Stan Brown Tehachapi, CA, USA https://BrownMath.com/ ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Boniforti, This is where you need an accountant in your jurisdiction. It all depends on the business legislation and taxation legislation and often on regulations and past court decisions and on the exact form of agreement you reached with the buyer and the documentation of that that you have. If your taxation authority has an advisory service you could contact them for advice about whether you treat shipping as an expense or liability. If you issued an invoice or receipt to the buyer which specified the price of the instrument, and the shipping costs and the total of 1214Eu, then there is a good chance the shipping costs are effectively considered as being paid by the buyer, so on receipt of the funds, that creates an obligation on you to pay for the shipping, i.e. a liability as the funds are only being passed to the shipper through you, so the second treatment is most likely to be appropriate but I cannot know for sure. Cheers David On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 09:14 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi David. > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is > giving me the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right > that I could separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my > checking account? One would be the shipping costs, the other is the > rest from 1214 EUR? I then would have two different "sources of > money" for both zeroing the "Korg MS-20M" account and for the > "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this work? > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens > : > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the > > shipping > > costs. > > > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to > > the > > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly > > included > > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > Asset:Bank Account Dr 1241.00 > > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > > > when the funds are received > > > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price > > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of > > the > > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an > > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > > > For this case it could be recorded as > > > > Asset Bank Dr 1178.51 > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > > > Asset:Bank Dr 35.49 > > Liability:Shipping Cr 35.49 > > > > when the funds are received > > > > and when the shipping is paid > > > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 > > > > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales > > invoice. > > > > David Cousens > > > > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just > > have > > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't > > know if > > > you > > > meant to make that account an expense account. > > > > > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > > > > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain > > in > > > this > > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and > > the > > > Income > > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have > > a > > > > dedicated > > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS- > > 20M". > > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in > > the > > > > "Total > > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then > > I > > > > added > > > > splits: > > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold > > it, I > > > > don't > > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" > > account; > > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - > > Transfer = > > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item > > to > > > > the > > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > > > > > Now w
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/22/2024 12:35 PM, R Losey wrote: Michael - That was a very good "stepping back" explanation. I think he is trying to record the shipping expenses both as shipping "Expense" and also have a reduction in the Income from the sale. Agreed, that's where the error is coming from. Can't have it both ways. Michael D Novack PS: Because of its name I was assuming "shipping" was an account for all shipping, not just that specific to instruments. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Michael - That was a very good "stepping back" explanation. I think he is trying to record the shipping expenses both as shipping "Expense" and also have a reduction in the Income from the sale. On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 11:12 AM Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > On 11/21/2024 6:32 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi Michael. > > Thanks for your message. > > You mean this type of view? > > image.png > > F. > > > The view is right, but the transaction isn't. The problem is that > accounts of type income and expense are on opposite sides of the ledger. > > Let's step back for a bit and discuss the transaction in terms of what > happened. You had an item of inventory on your books for U. You sold it > for V, the buyer giving you a check for V which you deposited in your > bank account. But part of this deal was that you pay for shipment to the > buyer and that cost W, which you paid for somehow, a check, money from > your pocket, a credit card, etc. > > Is that a correct description? > > So you had a decrease in an asset (of all of its value, U) and an > increase in an asset (bank account goes up by that deposit V) and an > increase in income (sales) for the > 'profit, not including expenses V-U) and so far in balance with > total debits = total credits -- REMEMBER, an increase of an account > of type income is a credit. > > BUT --- you also had an expense for the shipping cost X (a debit) which > you paid for somehow, a credit to a bank account, a wallet, or a credit > card charge. > > In your entry, you have BOTH the income account and the expense account > as credits. Expense accounts are on the debit side of the ledger. > > Michael D Novack > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
In my hasty writing, I incorrectly used "Income", when I meant to say "Deposit", but that seems to be wrong, also, as he really did deposit the 1214. On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 11:14 AM Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user < gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote: > On 11/21/2024 9:52 PM, R Losey wrote: > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if you > > meant to make that account an expense account. > > > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in this > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the > Income > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > > > No > > Michael D Novack > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
So, the funds for shipping was added as a credit ("Rebate", right-hand
column), but it should be a debit ("Expense", left-hand side).
(As a side note, I don't use the formal accounting labels, but I have
learned that the left column is ALWAYS the debit column, and the right
column is ALWAYS the credit column)... but I still use non-formal labels.
The fact that the numbers don't seem to work out properly when you enter
the data means that something is wrong.
Clearly, the asset entry is correct, as that balance is now zero.
I'm not sure, and perhaps others here can correct me, but it seems that you
need to make the shipping expenses either a reduction in gain or an
expense, but I don't think they can be both. If they can be, then another
account is needed to balance things out.
If you pay the shipping separately, I would recommend two transactions. If
it is one thing, I'd use one transaction.
=== first transaction: the sale ===
1) Assent drops 800 EUR to zero
2) Checking increases by 1214 EUR
3) Gain is 414
=== second transaction ===
1) Checking decreases by the shipping amount 35,49
2) Gain is reduced by 35,49 to 378,51
Alternatively, you could decrease the checking by the shipping amount
(35,49) and increase the shipping expense by 35,49, but, as you noted,
that leaves the gain incorrectly at 414.
There may be another transaction that would lower the gain to the proper
amount, but (as noted above) I cannot think of what the balancing account
would be.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:11 AM Boniforti Flavio
wrote:
> Hi Richard.
>
> Yes, my "Shipping costs" account should be (and it is) an expense account
> - I think this is correct, as it is something I pay for out of my pocket.
> The income is there, you just haven't seen it: "Income:Music Equipment
> Sold EUR"
> My asset (Korg MS-20M account) has gone down to zero (minus 800 Euro). The
> gain ("Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR") is actually 378,51 EUR because
> with the money coming into my checking account (1214 EUR) I also paid the
> shipping costs.
> But maybe I want to "compress" too much into one big split transaction. I
> could just put 414 EUR in my "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" account and
> then use money from my checking account to pay for the shipping - but this
> would distort my gain (which in fact is *not* 414 EUR, but it is 378,51
> EUR).
>
> What do you think?
> F.
>
> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>
>
> Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 03:53 Uhr schrieb R Losey :
>
>> Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have
>> Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if you
>> meant to make that account an expense account.
>>
>> I don't see an Income anywhere in the list.
>>
>> Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in this
>> sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the Income
>> will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.
>>>
>>> I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a
>>> dedicated
>>> account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M".
>>> The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR.
>>> I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total
>>> Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I added
>>> splits:
>>> 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I don't
>>> have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account;
>>> 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer =
>>> "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR"
>>> 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to the
>>> seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales"
>>>
>>> Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the "Rebate"
>>> column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results in a
>>> negative total:
>>> [image: image.png]
>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Flavio.
>>>
>>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
>>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
>>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>>> ___
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _
>> Richard Losey
>> rlo...@gmail.com
>> Micah 6:8
>>
>
--
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
___
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Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/21/2024 9:52 PM, R Losey wrote: Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if you meant to make that account an expense account. I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in this sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the Income will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? No Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/21/2024 6:32 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: Hi Michael. Thanks for your message. You mean this type of view? image.png F. The view is right, but the transaction isn't. The problem is that accounts of type income and expense are on opposite sides of the ledger. Let's step back for a bit and discuss the transaction in terms of what happened. You had an item of inventory on your books for U. You sold it for V, the buyer giving you a check for V which you deposited in your bank account. But part of this deal was that you pay for shipment to the buyer and that cost W, which you paid for somehow, a check, money from your pocket, a credit card, etc. Is that a correct description? So you had a decrease in an asset (of all of its value, U) and an increase in an asset (bank account goes up by that deposit V) and an increase in income (sales) for the 'profit, not including expenses V-U) and so far in balance with total debits = total credits -- REMEMBER, an increase of an account of type income is a credit. BUT --- you also had an expense for the shipping cost X (a debit) which you paid for somehow, a credit to a bank account, a wallet, or a credit card charge. In your entry, you have BOTH the income account and the expense account as credits. Expense accounts are on the debit side of the ledger. Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi. Your statement that "shipping is... paid by me, but the buyer is giving me the money for the shipping" is a contradiction. If the buyer is providing the funds, he is paying the shipping, not you. How you would record this depends partly on preference and partly how this is done... is the shipping included in the total sent to you? Is it a separate payment? If it is part of the same "transaction", I would use one entry, but if he gives you money at two different times or in two different ways, I would use two transactions. On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 2:15 AM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi David. > Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me > the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could > separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account? > One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I > then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg > MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this > work? > > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < > davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > > > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping > > costs. > > > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the > > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included > > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > > > when the funds are received > > > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price > > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the > > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an > > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > > > For this case it could be recorded as > > > > Asset BankDr 1178.51 > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > > > Asset:BankDr 35.49 > > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 > > > > when the funds are received > > > > and when the shipping is paid > > > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > > > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 > > > > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales > > invoice. > > > > David Cousens > > > > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have > > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if > > > you > > > meant to make that account an expense account. > > > > > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > > > > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in > > > this > > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the > > > Income > > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > > > > dedicated > > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > > > > "Total > > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > > > > added > > > > splits: > > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > > > > don't > > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > > > > the > > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > > > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > > > > "Rebate" > > > > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results > > > > in a > > > > negative total: > > > > [image: image.png] > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Flavio. > > > > > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > ___ > > > > gn
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi David. Shipping is factually paid by me with my money, but the buyer is giving me the money for the shipping. So do I understand it right that I could separate this sale and just enter two transactions in my checking account? One would be the shipping costs, the other is the rest from 1214 EUR? I then would have two different "sources of money" for both zeroing the "Korg MS-20M" account and for the "shipping costs of sales" account. Could this work? F. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 04:57 Uhr schrieb David Cousens < davidcousen...@gmail.com>: > It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping > costs. > > If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the > seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included > in the purchase price and would be paid. > > For a business this could be recorded as > > > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 > Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 > > when the funds are received > > Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 > Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but > ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) > > and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 > > If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price > should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the > instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an > expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. > > For this case it could be recorded as > > Asset BankDr 1178.51 > Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 > Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 > Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 > > Asset:BankDr 35.49 > Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 > > when the funds are received > > and when the shipping is paid > > Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 > Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 > > and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 > > Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales > invoice. > > David Cousens > > On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have > > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if > > you > > meant to make that account an expense account. > > > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in > > this > > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the > > Income > > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > > > dedicated > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > > > "Total > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > > > added > > > splits: > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > > > don't > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > > > the > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > > > "Rebate" > > > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results > > > in a > > > negative total: > > > [image: image.png] > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Flavio. > > > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > ___ > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > > - > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > > > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Hi Richard.
Yes, my "Shipping costs" account should be (and it is) an expense account -
I think this is correct, as it is something I pay for out of my pocket.
The income is there, you just haven't seen it: "Income:Music Equipment Sold
EUR"
My asset (Korg MS-20M account) has gone down to zero (minus 800 Euro). The
gain ("Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR") is actually 378,51 EUR because
with the money coming into my checking account (1214 EUR) I also paid the
shipping costs.
But maybe I want to "compress" too much into one big split transaction. I
could just put 414 EUR in my "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" account and
then use money from my checking account to pay for the shipping - but this
would distort my gain (which in fact is *not* 414 EUR, but it is 378,51
EUR).
What do you think?
F.
https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 03:53 Uhr schrieb R Losey :
> Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have
> Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if you
> meant to make that account an expense account.
>
> I don't see an Income anywhere in the list.
>
> Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in this
> sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the Income
> will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right?
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a dedicated
>> account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M".
>> The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR.
>> I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total
>> Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I added
>> splits:
>> 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I don't
>> have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account;
>> 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer =
>> "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR"
>> 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to the
>> seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales"
>>
>> Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the "Rebate"
>> column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results in a
>> negative total:
>> [image: image.png]
>> What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Flavio.
>>
>> https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
>> https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
>> https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> -
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>
>
> --
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
>
___
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Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
It all depends on whether the buyer or seller is paying the shipping costs. If the seller is paying the shipping costs then it is an expense to the seller but in this case the shipping costs are not explicitly included in the purchase price and would be paid. For a business this could be recorded as Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 Asset:Bank AccountDr 1241.00 Income:Sales Mus Inst Cr 1241.00 when the funds are received Asset:Bank account Cr 35.49 Expense:Shipping Dr 35.49 when shipping is paid (these could be combined if simultaneous but ideally better to keep the splits with memo annotations) and the nett profit on the sale is 1241-800-35.49 = 405.51 If the buyer is paying the shipping costs, then the purchase price should have included the shipping over and above the sale price of the instrument itself and the seller cannot claim the shipping as an expense and part of the money received pays for the shipping. For this case it could be recorded as Asset BankDr 1178.51 Asset:Mus. Inst. Cr 800.00 Expenses:CoGS Dr 800.00 Income:Sales Cr 1178.51 Asset:BankDr 35.49 Liability:ShippingCr 35.49 when the funds are received and when the shipping is paid Asset:Bank Cr 35.49 Liability:Shipping Dr 35.49 and in this case the net profit is 1178.51-800 = 478.51 Which of these it is appropriate should be clear from the sales invoice. David Cousens On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 20:52 -0600, R Losey wrote: > Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have > Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if > you > meant to make that account an expense account. > > I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. > > Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in > this > sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the > Income > will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? > > > On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio > > wrote: > > > Hi all. > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > > dedicated > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > > "Total > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > > added > > splits: > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > > don't > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > > the > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > > "Rebate" > > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results > > in a > > negative total: > > [image: image.png] > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > Thanks, > > Flavio. > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Expense accounts, because they are usually only increased, just have Expenses for debits. The credit is called a "Rebate". I don't know if you meant to make that account an expense account. I don't see an Income anywhere in the list. Your asset should have gone down by 800 EUR, as you did. The gain in this sale is 414 EUR, of which the shipping should be an expense, and the Income will be 1214 minus the shipping cost, right? On Thu, Nov 21, 2024 at 3:53 PM Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi all. > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a dedicated > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I added > splits: > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I don't > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to the > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the "Rebate" > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results in a > negative total: > [image: image.png] > What am I doing wrong? > > Thanks, > Flavio. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > -- _ Richard Losey rlo...@gmail.com Micah 6:8 ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Boniforti, Please see another preply In which I agreed that Michael'sapproach was indeed correct in that the shipping should not be included as an expense and subtracted from the value of the income. The correct entries should be : Asset:Checking AccountCr 35.49 EU Expense:ShippingDr 35.49 EU Asset:Checking Account Dr 1214.00 EU Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M Cr 800.00 EU Income:Instrument Sales Cr 414.00 EU The way I suggested effectively expenses the shipping twice and your taxman is not going to like that David On Fri, 2024-11-22 at 00:39 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi again. > I actually tried to enter all the split transactions starting in my > checking account. It looks like this (in journal view): > [image: image.png] > When I disable the journal view, I instead see three individual split > transactions: > [image: image.png] > Nevertheless, in the "shipping costs" account, I still have the > amount of > 35,49 entered as a "rebate" and not as an "expense". Why is this? > [image: image.png] > F. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 00:32 Uhr schrieb Boniforti Flavio < > bonifort...@gmail.com>: > > > Hi Michael. > > Thanks for your message. > > You mean this type of view? > > [image: image.png] > > F. > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > Am Fr., 22. Nov. 2024 um 00:18 Uhr schrieb Michael or Penny Novack > > via > > gnucash-user : > > > > > Two things > > > a) When wanting to show us a "split" transaction (more than two > > > accounts > > > affected) it would make more sense to show it in "journal mode". > > > That's > > > the way you see it when entering a split transaction, all the > > > affected > > > accounts at the same time. > > > > > > b) I'm not going to comment on the supposedly user friendly > > > column > > > titles except to point out that sometimes they will make little > > > sense. > > > > > > Your transaction to record this sale should have been: > > > Debit Checking account 1214 > > > Debit Shipping cost of sales 35.49 > > > > > > Credit Korg MS-20M 800 > > > Credit Music Equipment sold 414 > > > Credit Checking account 35.49 << if you paid the shipping by > > > check >> > > > > > > What did you do wrong? Presumably you paid this shipping cost wit > > > an > > > asset 9anyway, I'm showing it that way. Because you are tracking > > > the > > > expense "shipping cost" you do not reduce income by that amount > > > also > > > > > > Michael D Novack > > > > > > On 11/21/2024 4:52 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have > > > > a > > > dedicated > > > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS- > > > > 20M". > > > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in > > > > the "Total > > > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then > > > > I added > > > > splits: > > > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold > > > > it, I > > > don't > > > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" > > > > account; > > > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - > > > > Transfer = > > > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item > > > > to the > > > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > > > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > > > > "Rebate" > > > > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end > > > > results in a > > > > negative total: > > > > [image: image.png] > > > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Flavio. > > > > > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > > > - > > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except > > > the > > > equality of the grave. > > > > > > ___ > > > gnucash-user mailing list > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsub
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Agreed Michael what I suggested is incorrect as it subtracts the shipping from the income as well as recording it as an expense- essentially double dipping on the expenses On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 18:17 -0500, Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash- user wrote: > Two things > a) When wanting to show us a "split" transaction (more than two > accounts > affected) it would make more sense to show it in "journal mode". > That's > the way you see it when entering a split transaction, all the > affected > accounts at the same time. > > b) I'm not going to comment on the supposedly user friendly column > titles except to point out that sometimes they will make little > sense. > > Your transaction to record this sale should have been: > Debit Checking account 1214 > Debit Shipping cost of sales 35.49 > > Credit Korg MS-20M 800 > Credit Music Equipment sold 414 > Credit Checking account 35.49 << if you paid the shipping by > check >> > > What did you do wrong? Presumably you paid this shipping cost wit an > asset 9anyway, I'm showing it that way. Because you are tracking the > expense "shipping cost" you do not reduce income by that amount also > > Michael D Novack > > On 11/21/2024 4:52 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > > dedicated > > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > > "Total > > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > > added > > splits: > > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > > don't > > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > > the > > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > > "Rebate" > > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results > > in a > > negative total: > > [image: image.png] > > What am I doing wrong? > > > > Thanks, > > Flavio. > > > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > > > > > > ___ > > gnucash-user mailing list > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > > - > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > > ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
On 11/21/2024 5:39 PM, David Cousens wrote: Boniforti, The entries to record the sale of the instrument would be Asset:Checking Account Dr 1214.00 EU Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M Cr 800.00 EU Expense:Shipping Cr 35.49 EU Income:Instrument Sales Cr 378.51 EU NO Income is a credit (cr) but the expense a debit (db) And you paid for this shipping somehow If it helps you to remember, the fundamental type of both income and expense is equity and the sense of equity is credit. Income is an increase (more credit) and expense a decrease (opposite sense of credit is debit) Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Two things a) When wanting to show us a "split" transaction (more than two accounts affected) it would make more sense to show it in "journal mode". That's the way you see it when entering a split transaction, all the affected accounts at the same time. b) I'm not going to comment on the supposedly user friendly column titles except to point out that sometimes they will make little sense. Your transaction to record this sale should have been: Debit Checking account 1214 Debit Shipping cost of sales 35.49 Credit Korg MS-20M 800 Credit Music Equipment sold 414 Credit Checking account 35.49 << if you paid the shipping by check >> What did you do wrong? Presumably you paid this shipping cost wit an asset 9anyway, I'm showing it that way. Because you are tracking the expense "shipping cost" you do not reduce income by that amount also Michael D Novack On 11/21/2024 4:52 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote: Hi all. I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a dedicated account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the "Total Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I added splits: 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I don't have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to the seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the "Rebate" column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results in a negative total: [image: image.png] What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Flavio. https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. -- There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality of the grave. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Why is part of a split registered as "rebate" in the Transfer account?
Boniforti, The entries to record the sale of the instrument would be Asset:Checking Account Dr 1214.00 EU Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M Cr 800.00 EU Expense:Shipping Cr 35.49 EU Income:Instrument Sales Cr 378.51 EU With the formal accounting labels the order of the columns is Debit(Dr) Credit(Cr) Balance from the right and the column order is not changed if you are not using the formal accounting labels. The order of the above entries, particularly the first, will depend upon from which acount register you are making the entries. If your income from this source is not taxable in your jurisdiction you can create income sub account placeholders for taxable and non-taxable income and place the Instrument Sales account under the non-taxable placeholder account. On Thu, 2024-11-21 at 22:52 +0100, Boniforti Flavio wrote: > Hi all. > > I've just sold one of my instruments, for which I already have a > dedicated > account "Assets:Current Assets:Music Equipment EUR:Korg MS-20M". > The opening balance for this item is 800 EUR. > I now sold it and I got 1214 EUR for it. So I entered 1214 in the > "Total > Increase" column, with "Transfer" my EUR Checking account. Then I > added > splits: > 800 "Total decrease" so that the item's value is 0 (as I sold it, I > don't > have anymore its value at home) - Transfer = "Korg MS-20M" account; > 378,51 "Total decrease" (which is the surplus I made) - Transfer = > "Income:Music Equipment Sold EUR" > 35,49 "Total decrease", the price I paid for shipping this item to > the > seller - Transfer = "Expenses EUR:Post:Shipping cost of sales" > > Now when I look at the last account listed, I see 35,49 in the > "Rebate" > column and the "Expense" column is empty - which in the end results > in a > negative total: > [image: image.png] > What am I doing wrong? > > Thanks, > Flavio. > > https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music > https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music > https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
