Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-15 Thread Jason Harris via Gnupg-users
> On Aug 15, 2019, at 3:33 PM, Werner Koch wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:02, gnupg-users@gnupg.org said: > >> But at least then we will want to add cryptography to see which >> selfsigs are truly legitimate, right? > > That would be the first and most important step to get the keyservers

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-15 Thread Werner Koch via Gnupg-users
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 00:02, gnupg-users@gnupg.org said: > But at least then we will want to add cryptography to see which > selfsigs are truly legitimate, right? That would be the first and most important step to get the keyservers back for the WoT Shalom-Salam, Werner -- Die Gedanken

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Jason Harris via Gnupg-users
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 6:32 PM, MFPA via Gnupg-users > wrote: > On Wednesday 14 August 2019 at 10:39:56 AM, in > , Alessandro Vesely > via Gnupg-users wrote:- > >> I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 3rd party >> signatures should not >> be allowed. > > Perhaps a "keyserver

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread MFPA via Gnupg-users
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hi On Wednesday 14 August 2019 at 10:39:56 AM, in , Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users wrote:- > I'm no expert, but it seems to me that 3rd party > signatures should not > be allowed. Perhaps a "keyserver no-third-party-signatures" option would

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Werner Koch via Gnupg-users
On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:45, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > developed *more than twenty years ago* it was decided to support > arbitrary numbers of third-party signatures. GnuPG faithfully At least OpenPGP has this: 5.2.3.17. Key Server Preferences (N octets of flags) This is a list of

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> Can you give me a valid reason why anyone would want their key signed by > 150,000 people or more?? How can you meet 150,000 people? Sure, if you can give me a valid reason why I *should* give you a valid reason. Seriously. I'm not a GnuPG developer. I don't run an SKS keyserver. I know a

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 14/08/2019 12:29, Vincent Breitmoser wrote: >> The algorithm is designed to withstand very well funded actors, >> oppressive regimes were what the designers were thinking of. > > We are talking about a sand castle here that was kicked down by a kid. It's > a bit bizarre to claim that it was

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 14/08/2019 12:09, Andrew Gallagher wrote: > Indeed, but that condition is fundamentally incompatible with > decentralised reconciliation - because deletion without permissions > management is an open door, and permissions have to be enforced by an > authority. H the authority could

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 14/08/2019 11:39, Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users wrote: > Absolute monotonicity is wrong. It must be possible to delete errors. In that case we need a different algorithm. Which I had already been advocating, so you are preaching to the choir. You can keep reiterating that you do not like

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread David
On 13/08/2019 15:54, Robert J. Hansen wrote: >> Good write-up. Now I have a question, in hope that SKS operators are >> reading this too. I have learned from Robert's gist that the max. is >> 150.000 sigs per key the servers can handle, if I am not mistaken. > > I didn't say this. > > I said

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Vincent Breitmoser via Gnupg-users
> The algorithm is designed to withstand very well funded actors, > oppressive regimes were what the designers were thinking of. We are talking about a sand castle here that was kicked down by a kid. It's a bit bizarre to claim that it was built to withstand rockets. Given that the recon

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Andrew Gallagher
On 14/08/2019 10:39, Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users wrote: > Absolute monotonicity is wrong. It must be possible to delete errors. Indeed, but that condition is fundamentally incompatible with decentralised reconciliation - because deletion without permissions management is an open door, and

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-14 Thread Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users
On Tue 13/Aug/2019 13:07:07 +0200 Peter Lebbing wrote: > On 13/08/2019 09:54, Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users wrote: >> More than a reasonable number of signatures makes no sense in >> practice, so I agree lists should somehow be "fixed" so as not to >> accept an unreasonable number of

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-13 Thread Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users
Robert J. Hansen wrote: > > Good write-up. Now I have a question, in hope that SKS operators are > > reading this too. I have learned from Robert's gist that the max. is > > 150.000 sigs per key the servers can handle, if I am not mistaken. > > I didn't say this. > > I said they handle up to

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-13 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> Good write-up. Now I have a question, in hope that SKS operators are > reading this too. I have learned from Robert's gist that the max. is > 150.000 sigs per key the servers can handle, if I am not mistaken. I didn't say this. I said they handle up to about that, *because we've seen keys with

Re: Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-13 Thread Stefan Claas via Gnupg-users
Peter Lebbing wrote: [snip] > Furthermore, the end goal is for all hosts to have the same dataset, so > let's define progress as that the hosts become more and more alike: when > the number of differences between the hosts has reduced, we have made > progress. Once completed, it has progressed

Difficulty of fixing reconciliation

2019-08-13 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 13/08/2019 09:54, Alessandro Vesely via Gnupg-users wrote: > More than a reasonable number of signatures makes no sense in > practice, so I agree lists should somehow be "fixed" so as not to > accept an unreasonable number of signatures (reasonable == 2??) Others tell us: the synchronization