Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-08 Thread MFPA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Tuesday 4 October 2016 at 4:55:30 PM, in , Heinz Diehl wrote:- > The left one is a modular padlock, and the one in the middle is an > integrated padlock. According to one of my friends who is a native > en_GB speaker. As a native en_GB speak

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-04 Thread Heinz Diehl
On 03.10.2016, Werner Koch wrote: > We would call the left one a "normales Vorhangeschloss" (simple > padlock). But the middle one is known as a "Schappschloss" - referring > to the feature that you do not need a key to lock it. The left one is a modular padlock, and the one in the middle is an

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-03 Thread Werner Koch
On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 18:34, richard.hoechenber...@gmail.com said: > :) But maybe I'm simply too young, the padlock-without-Schnappschloss > type appears to be kind of ancient? Heavy duty padlocks require a key for locking; you may have seen them used to lock a motorbike. The description at [1] li

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-03 Thread Richard Höchenberger
On Mon, Oct 3, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Werner Koch wrote: > Here are two padlocks: > > > > > We would call the left one a "normales Vorhangeschloss" (simple > padlock). But the middle one is known as a "Schappsch

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-03 Thread Werner Koch
On Sun, 2 Oct 2016 12:44, j...@berklix.com said: > Schnappschloss seems to be a wide word covering all sorts, It might be that there are regional differences in Germany. May be even more here, close to the traditional area of lock fabrication. Here are two padlocks:

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-03 Thread Daniel Kahn Gillmor
On Sun 2016-10-02 13:48:01 -0400, Michael A. Yetto wrote: > I thought what might be meant is what I have always referred to as a > slam lock. That is, a locking mechanism that stays locked after opening > from the inside and locks itself after closing from the outside. as a native en_US-speaker, I

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-02 Thread Michael A. Yetto
On Sun, 02 Oct 2016 12:44:16 +0200 "Julian H. Stacey" wrote: >https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2016-October/056809.html >> Frankly, I did not know how to translate the German term >> "Schnappschloss". I had in mind that a "latch" is similar to a >> "deadbolt". > >Heinz Diehl wrote

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-02 Thread Julian H. Stacey
https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2016-October/056809.html > Frankly, I did not know how to translate the German term > "Schnappschloss". I had in mind that a "latch" is similar to a > "deadbolt". Heinz Diehl wrote: > Visualising a picture of what is meant by the German term, I would

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-01 Thread Heinz Diehl
On 01.10.2016, Werner Koch wrote: > Frankly, I did not know how to translate the German term > "Schnappschloss". Visualising a picture of what is meant by the German term, I would intuitively translate it to something like a hasp, a snap lock or even a spring lock. And you're right, I also heard

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-01 Thread MFPA
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Saturday 1 October 2016 at 6:45:51 PM, in , Werner Koch wrote:- > Frankly, I did not know how to translate the German term > "Schnappschloss". I had in mind that a "latch" is similar to a > "deadbolt". For latch, the Oxford dictionary give

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-01 Thread Werner Koch
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:50, andr...@andrewg.com said: > with the same key. "Latch and key" is the best analogy I know of to Frankly, I did not know how to translate the German term "Schnappschloss". I had in mind that a "latch" is similar to a "deadbolt". Salam-Shalom, Werner -- Die Gedan

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-10-01 Thread Werner Koch
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:30, ine...@gnu.org said: > There is one more: "secret key". Well, I like "secret key" because "secret" stands out when reading source code or text. "private" and "public" are two similar and when it comes to naming variables sk and pk or seckey and pubkey are easier to dis

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Andrew Gallagher
The problems always start with the words "public key"... On 30/09/16 15:22, Werner Koch wrote: > > So for example "lock" and "private key" may be better. "Lock and key" works for symmetric crypto, because you lock and unlock with the same key. "Latch and key" is the best analogy I know of to pub

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Ineiev
On Fri, Sep 30, 2016 at 04:22:39PM +0200, Werner Koch wrote: > > The root of the problem might be the concept of "public key" and > "private key". You need to educate users that these are very different > things but still belong together. There is one more: "secret key". signature.asc Descript

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Mirimir
On 09/30/2016 08:24 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: >> I'd start with -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- :) > > You are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) [1] -- no, wait! > That's "key block", not "keyblock"! > > I'm more technically correct! I win! :) > > In all seriousness, the

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Kristian Fiskerstrand
On 09/30/2016 04:24 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: >> I'd start with -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- :) > > You are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) [1] -- no, > wait! That's "key block", not "keyblock"! > > I'm more technically correct! I win! :) > > In all seriousness, the

RE: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> I'd start with -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- :) You are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) [1] -- no, wait! That's "key block", not "keyblock"! I'm more technically correct! I win! :) In all seriousness, the only context in which I've seen "key block" has been the begi

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Werner Koch
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 14:46, r...@sixdemonbag.org said: > https://www.gpg4win.org/doc/en/gpg4win-compendium_12.html We had a long discussion many years ago on how to name the beast. The compendium somewhat prioritizes S/MIME and thus we tried to unify the terms by using "certificate" also for Open

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Kristian Fiskerstrand
On 09/30/2016 02:46 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: >> In OpenPGP this is called a "keyblock". > > Where can I find this usage documented? In almost 25 years in the PGP > community I've heard the word "key" used >95% of the time, "certificate" > <5% of the time, and this is literally the first time I

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> In OpenPGP this is called a "keyblock". Where can I find this usage documented? In almost 25 years in the PGP community I've heard the word "key" used >95% of the time, "certificate" <5% of the time, and this is literally the first time I've heard the word "keyblock". Also see: https://www.gn

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Peter Lebbing
On 29/09/16 17:17, Robert J. Hansen wrote: > I have to admit to being extremely annoyed with the state of the language we > use. IMO, TOFU has just made it even worse. I tried to be really strict, talk about ownertrust and validity. Always trying to keep them separate. Personally avoiding the wo

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread Werner Koch
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 12:23, gn...@jelmail.com said: > * A Public-Key packet starts a series of packets that forms an OpenPGP > key (sometimes called an OpenPGP certificate). In OpenPGP this is called a "keyblock". The term certificate is used only for some special thinks (revocation certificate).

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread John Lane
> [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/openpgp/current/msg07712.html > > [2] ftp://ftp.pgpi.org/pub/pgp/6.5/docs/english/IntroToCrypto.pdf > Great link [1], very interesting. I think the language used hasn't helped the uptake of this technology. The other thing mentioned in there is trust vs

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-30 Thread John Lane
> I have to admit to being extremely annoyed with the state of the language we > use. OpenPGP is hard enough to learn without having to be confused by > multiple names for the same algorithms, confusing usage of "certificate", > "key", and "Key", and every other bit of linguistic tomfoolery we

RE: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> It seems there is, according to one of the authors of RFCs 2440 and > 4880. Apparently, at the time they were told by the IETF to avoid > speaking of "certificates" so that OpenPGP would not seem to rivalize > with PKIX... For related reasons, GnuPG and PGP have different names for some of the s

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-29 Thread Damien Goutte-Gattat
On 09/29/2016 12:23 PM, John Lane wrote: I was just wondering whether I've misunderstood No, you understood well. What we commonly call an "OpenPGP public key" should really be called, strictly speaking, an "OpenPGP certificate". And "signing a key" is really "certifying" the binding between

Re: Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-29 Thread Robert J. Hansen
> I was reading the FAQ and noticed that it uses the word 'certificate' to > describe what I think people commonly refer to as their 'key' (ref > gnupg-faq.html section 7.4 and 7.5) that they would upload to a 'key > server'. "Certificate" is the correct word, but "key" has historically also been

Terminology - certificate or key ?

2016-09-29 Thread John Lane
I was reading the FAQ and noticed that it uses the word 'certificate' to describe what I think people commonly refer to as their 'key' (ref gnupg-faq.html section 7.4 and 7.5) that they would upload to a 'key server'. * A certificate is a large data structure that contains one or more /keys/, and