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Caste among Catholics in Goa are an abhorent hangover. Unfortunately, hangovers are a reality that can be avoided only by those who have access to the superior spirit[ whether divine or unadulterated caju feni or just scotch]. The navsagar or industrial alcohol spiked drinkers and the ritual worshippers know not the superior spirit, whether they are 'catholic'[which means 'universal'] or just parochial priests or laity. They believe in castes and practice casteism. Dr.Wilfred de Sousa, who has besides being the Chief Minister of Goa been an Advisor to the Catholic Bishops Conference of India [CBCI], beleives in caste. So do so many others who spoke about their caste at the release function of a book in Panjim recently. Fred lives in a wonderland when he thinks that "the post-1961 Church has a distinct embarassment about it and tries to get rid of its past, in terms of how it dealt with caste." I am surprised at this 1961 hang-up in Fred. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Not about the castes, at least. That Fr. Raul Gonsalves became Bishop in liberated Goa is an anomaly. Goans of other castes have indeed become bishops...but not Bishop of Goa. It should not be confused for changing rules. Period. When the Pope last came to Goa, two confrarias of the Aldona Church [ one for the Brahmins and the other for the Sudhras] were merged. The church still celebrates two main feasts.St.Thomas and Bom Jesus[celebrated on 31 Oct. this year.] No prizes for guessing why. And this is the current archbishop's home village. Reform does not come from the top. No man with four aces asks for a fresh deal. ...................................................... > Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 "Frederick Noronha(FN)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote > This is true. If you go to the old churches of Old Goa (and probably elsewhere), you might be surprised to find the tombstones stating the caste of the person buried there, quite nonchalantly, almost as if it were a kind of nationality or something ;-) > Incidentally, I think the role of the Church towards caste needs a sharper understanding. I might be wrong on this, but my impression is that the post-1961 Church has a distinct embarassment about it and tries to get rid > of its past, in terms of how it dealt with caste. But, do you really think it's worth digging up these skeletons from the > past? If you went through so much of life without the hang-ups of caste (either superiority-based or ones of inferiority) troubling you, then good for you! FN > On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, godfrey gonsalves wrote: Check up the Baptismal Register and you will find your occupation which indirectly will reveal your caste. ....................................................... Having said that, I cannot agree with either Godfrey or with Fred on the caste records. Which church has baptisimal records showing the occupation of the baptised or his/her parents,godparents,etc. I am yet to see one...even a Portuguese period one. Can someone name the specific cemetery where there is a single tombstone with the caste engraved on it? Why is everyone beginning to put their illusions down as the truth? Samir writes about a hundred village girls prostituting on a single day [night?] in a single 5-star hotel. Is there no limit to such flights of imagination??? Godfrey, Fred, Samir....can we have some specififics please? Viva Goa. Miguel