Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-10 Thread Sam Furtado
Dr. Helekar,

Referring to your e-mail (sic) about the dictionary meanings of the right
words;  'apology' / 'regret' means, whether written or spoken expressions of
one's regret, remorse etc... I am fully aware of these connotations, so
there is no need for you to teach you understand.

About Christian Obama / Hindu Obama I will stick with it, I hope you are not
afraid of the Americans, maybe, who knows?.

As per my knowledge of Bombay, I am a Mumbaikar for your information, though
I have a Goan parentage.  But I was born, bred and educated in Bombay and I
know its past and oresent history, their culture, their traditions, their
soul, their commandments and most of all their Conscience.

Yes, one thing I will agree with you about my printers devil in the mails,
but they were due to rushing to work in a hurry and not prove reading
them and not due to ignorancy or the lack of English knowledge.

I suggest you please start 'English Coaching Classes in Goa' which is very
paramount there as the under privileged ones could get some benefits out of
it and which could be more rewading for you then from Public a Domain,
understand.

Goodbye!
Sam

On 8/9/10, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Mr. Furtado,

 Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please
 also note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan
 cyberforum called Goanet.

 Here are the meanings of the words apology and regret.

 apology - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or
 sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another.
 ..an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift...

 Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above
 dictionary definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology

 regret - a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc...
 .a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss,
 disappointment, etc.

 Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret

 Here is the meaning of the word retract. Please note the correct
 spelling.

 retract - ...to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or
 unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back.
 to draw back or in

 Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract

 Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are
 wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done.

 So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama
 against the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about
 how the first commandment to examine your conscience and make sure
 everything there is accounted for, ensures that the Christian
 fundamentalists cannot ban conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U.
 S. of A.

 Cheers,

 Santosh


 --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Dr. Helekar,
 
  First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do
  youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition?
 
  Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for
  nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong.
 
  So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my
  words of  having disreputed you in public domain when
  an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you
  and that should have sufficed you..
 
  Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special
  kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less
  respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that
  retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified
  me.
 
  I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when
  at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to
  do the job
 
  So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and
  unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings
  left.
 
  Sam
 
 --- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today,
  in which he states ‘In America there are no
  anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian
  fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries
  or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are
  anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around
  bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’
  etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I
  fully agree with him..
 
  The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the
  few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian
  religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian
  populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace
  Christianity, then they would loose their true identity,
  which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased
  without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of
  A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything
  there is accounted for.
 
  Also point of Mark and which 

Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-09 Thread Santosh Helekar
Mr. Furtado,

Please read this slowly, noting all the correct spellings of words. Please also 
note that I, Santosh Helekar is posting this on a public Goan cyberforum called 
Goanet.

Here are the meanings of the words apology and regret.

apology - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow 
for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another.
..an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift...

Please click on this link with a computer mouse to read the above dictionary 
definitions - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apology

regret - a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc...
.a feeling of sorrow or remorse for a fault, act, loss, 
disappointment, etc.

Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/regret

Here is the meaning of the word retract. Please note the correct spelling.

retract - ...to withdraw (a statement, opinion, etc.) as inaccurate or 
unjustified, esp. formally or explicitly; take back.
to draw back or in

Please see - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retract

Now, I did not want your apology because you refuse to believe that you are 
wrong, and you do not have any regret for the wrong that you have done. 

So I request you to retract from this thread and move on to Hindu Obama against 
the good Christians. Please tell me what you know in Bombay about how the first 
commandment to examine your conscience and make sure everything there is 
accounted for, ensures that the Christian fundamentalists cannot ban 
conversions and vandalize Hindu temples in the U. S. of A. 

Cheers,

Santosh


--- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dr. Helekar,
 
 First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do
 youo mean by 'Apology and Regret', give me he definition?
 
 Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for
 nothing or be sorry for having done nothing wrong.
 
 So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my
 words of  having disreputed you in public domain when
 an apology to that should have an convincing effect on you
 and that should have sufficed you..
 
 Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special
 kind of forbearance on you and an apology would be less
 respectful and bring disrepute to your name and that
 retriving statement would have glorified you and cruxified
 me.
 
 I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when
 at one stroke two birds can be felled you want two stones to
 do the job
 
 So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and
 unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings
 left.
 
 Sam
 
--- On Sun, 8/8/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Reading the e-mail of Mr. Mark D’ Souza, in Goanet today,
 in which he states ‘In America there are no
 anti-conversion laws and there are no Christian
 fundamentalist who will go around bashing Hindu Missionaries
 or vandalizing Hindu temples and here in India there are
 anti-conversion laws and the Hindu fundamentalist go around
 bashing Christian Missionaries and vandalizing churches’
 etc is absolutely right and true what he has stated and I
 fully agree with him..
 
 The cause for this could be that the Hindu Fanatics or the
 few rogue elements who have infiltrated the Christian
 religious order are afraid that in the event the Indian
 populace crosses to the other side of the fence and embrace
 Christianity, then they would loose their true identity,
 which presently allows them to do as the wish and pleased
 without having to answer to God or man, whereas in U. S. of
 A. first commandment examine your conscience and everything
 there is accounted for.
 
 Also point of Mark and which is an eye opener; is about the
 Indian Clergy, which includes priests, bishops, cardinals
 who preach from the pulpit of serving the poor with cash and
 kind that includes housing are instead misusing church funds
 and selling church properties
 without the knowledge of the parishioners, is a point in
 contention that needs to be closely investigated by the
 concerned authorities before it is too late and the rot sets
 in.
 
 Sam  Furtado
 Bombay
 






Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-08 Thread Sam Furtado

Dr. Helekar,

First and foremost tell me please, in English word, what do youo mean by 
'Apology and Regret', give me he definition?


Secondly, who in his or her right sense would apologize for nothing or 
be sorry for having done nothing wrong.


So why the question of you repeating that I retranct my words of  having 
disreputed you in public domain when an apology to that should have an 
convincing effect on you and that should have sufficed you..


Do you feel that the specific kind of words have a special kind of 
forbearance on you and an apology would be less respectful and bring 
disrepute to your name and that retriving statement would have glorified 
you and cruxified me.


I feel you have strange ways of getting things done, when at one stroke 
two birds can be felled you want two stones to do the job


So, Stop this vicious cycle that would lead you nowhere and 
unnecessarity get an entanglement with no loose strings left.


Sam




Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-03 Thread Santosh Helekar
Prof. Augusto Pinto is on a crusade to attack and smear me over something I 
have not done. But please note that he is afraid to name and speak out against 
the following people:

1. The actual perpetrators of the bomb blasts in Margao, belonging to the 
Sanatan Saunstha.

2. The politicians who have shilled for them, and caused harm to Goa in other 
ways.

3. The Maoists who are responsible for thousands of murders over the last 
decade in India.

4. Rajan Parrikar who stated the following referring to people like Admin 
Noronha:

The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the 
Sanatan Saunstha.  You can take this to the bank.
Rajan Parrikar
Please see - 
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-July/196815.html

5. AF who directly attacked Dr. Jose Pereira as follows:

QUOTE
when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed 
intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a 
self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( 
and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I 
wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any 
reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude 
Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the 
locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira!
UNQUOTE
.AF

Please see: 
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html

This should tell you why Prof. Augusto's crusade is a facade meant only to gain 
cheap sympathy from a few like-minded onlookers on Goanet. Item number 5 above 
should be especially instructive in this regard.

Do you think Prof. Augusto Pinto cares about Dr. Jose Pereira's reputation? I 
don't think so. This campaign, like all ideological campaigns, is driven more 
by hate than love.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dr Santosh Helekar continues his
 efforts to divert attention from the
 death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu
 Janajagriti
 Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease
 afflicted 79 year
 old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue
 about the
 email that is reproduced below.
 
 For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the
 hurt that a
 certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to
 do
 anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist
 like Dr.
 Jose Pereira.
 
 Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of
 your rhetorical skills.
 


  

* * *

How were the 1950s, East African Goans and British Overseas
Citizenship linked? Which Kenyan-Goan was one of the world
fastest sprinters in the 1960s? What did the 1878
London-Lisbon treaty mean to Goa? Find your answers in Selma
Carvalho's *Into the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Buy from
Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] Price (in
Goa only) Rs 295.  http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread Sam Furtado

August 2, 2010

The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr. Santosh 
Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed contraversy on Dr. Jose 
Pereira's Paintings', and which I quote below:


 Quote:

The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not 
the  Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this to the bank.


Unquote:

It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal biased and cannot 
mesticate the facts of life or reality.


Every person in his own right have freedom of expression;  Be it in 
writing, painting or voicing, irrespective of the nature of the subject. 
Everthing likes in the Eyes of the Beholder.  So what despicability or 
deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's Paintings?  I think 
he needs to visit a Shrink.


To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar, who are 
communal frenzy and these are the people need to be watched closely or 
else they will be detrimental to the society and the peace loving Goans.


Sam

* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread Santosh Helekar
--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself does 
 not make anyone anti-Hindu.  To cite an extreme case, I have never thought 
 of Nascy as anti-Hindu.  Semi-literate clown, yes.  Anti-Hindu, no.  
 

I am not sure what Nascimento is, and I don't really care. I only like the 
entertainment he provides in the Goanet circus, and am always looking forward 
to goading him into lowering the semi-literacy level of this forum further with 
each post.

 
 The anti-Hindu fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion of 
 Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is political 
 or social.  Anytime he sees something which in his mind demonstrates  Hindu 
 strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate stories to tar the 
 individual or group.  


I see nothing wrong in being opposed to politicization of religion, or to an 
assertion of a political (not social) identity based on religion, as long as it 
is even-handed, i.e. applied to all religions equally, if one claims to uphold 
the Indian secular outlook. The latter is where in my estimation Admin Noronha 
and others like him fall short, even after making allowance for the fact that 
minorities should receive special protection in a democracy driven by the 
majority vote.

And yes, there is no reflection, self-reflection and weighing on a case by case 
basis. There is always the same boiler-plate narrative that is applied to 
everything, and everybody who has a difference of opinion, about a political 
issue or event.

Cheers,

Santosh


  
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread Santosh Helekar
I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made against me 
below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely quoted as my own. My 
position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is exactly what it has been all along 
with other artistic and academic freedom issues such as those related to 
Hussain, Dan Brown and Da Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I 
am unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am opposed to 
anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it. Groups such as Hindu 
Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic 
Defense Council, etc stand for everything that I am against. But I have no 
problem as long as they express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the 
lady in the video was doing.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado sfrainbo...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Biggest misnomer of the day about the Goans is by Dr.
 Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed
 contraversy on Dr. Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I
 quote below:

  Quote:

 The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed
 of dregs, not the  Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this
 to the bank.

 Unquote:

 It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal
 biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality.

 Every person in his own right have freedom of
 expression;  Be it in writing, painting or voicing,
 irrespective of the nature of the subject. Everthing likes
 in the Eyes of the Beholder.  So what despicability or
 deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's
 Paintings?  I think he needs to visit a Shrink.

 To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar,
 who are communal frenzy and these are the people need to be
 watched closely or else they will be detrimental to the
 society and the peace loving Goans.

 Sam


  
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread augusto pinto
Santosh Helekar wrote: I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha
is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to me that he is not a secular
pluralist either... blah blah blah...

I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his ability to
twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others are put
completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an absolute
marvel to me.

Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A
Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to point to
the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through an allied
organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate propaganda through
its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the phone numbers
of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a spate of
hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose Pereira was
even threatened of being decapitated.

At the XCHR  talk by  Dr. Jose Pereira, where the activists of the HJS
intruded to lecture him about their hurt sentiments Frederick
Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of publishing the
phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided readers
that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR.

Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject of  Jose Pereira
at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a diatribe against
FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher has been
issued death threats has been drowned out in the meanwhile.

Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which wanted to
explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they failed and
killed two of their own members is a different issue.

I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for
diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the
irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in
pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!!

I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent rhetorical skills.

-- 


Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal,
Moira, Bardez,
Goa, India
E pinto...@gmail.com or ypinto...@yahoo.co.in
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread augusto pinto
Dr Santosh Helekar continues his efforts to divert attention from the
death threats which the Sanathan Saunstha and the Hindu Janajagriti
Samiti have issued against the Parkinson's disease afflicted 79 year
old artist, scholar and philosopher, by making a big issue about the
email that is reproduced below.

For Santosh Helelar it is more important to focus on the hurt that a
certain Sami Furtado has caused to his fragile ego, than to do
anything to defend an aged scholar, philosopher, and artist like Dr.
Jose Pereira.

Once more Santosh, I congratulate you on the felicity of your rhetorical skills.

.
Dr Santosh Helekar wrote to goanet:

Re: Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

I would request Sam Furtado to retract the statements he has made
against me below. I have never made the assertion that he has falsely
quoted as my own. My position on Dr. Jose Pereira's paintings is
exactly what it has been all along with other artistic and academic
freedom issues such as those related to Hussain, Dan Brown and Da
Vinci code movie, Salman Rushdie and Subodh Kerkar. I am
unconditionally in favor of artistic and academic freedom, and am
opposed to anybody who uses violence and intimidation to stifle it.
Groups such as Hindu Janajagruti Samiti, inappropriately named
Catholic Secular Forum, Islamic Defense Council, etc stand for
everything that I am against. But I have no problem as long as they
express their protests in a peaceful manner, as the lady in the video
was doing.Cheers,Santosh--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Sam Furtado  sfrainbow51
at gmail.com  wrote:  The Biggest misnomer of the day about the
Goans is by Dr.

 Santosh Helekar's, email, which relates to the brewed  contraversy on Dr. 
 Jose Pereira's Paintings', and which I  quote below:   Quote:   The 
 biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed  of dregs, not the 
 Sanatan Saunstha. ?You can take this  to the bank.

  Unquote:   It is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar who are communal  
  biased and cannot mesticate the facts of life or reality.

  Every person in his own right have freedom of  expression; Be it in 
  writing, painting or voicing,  irrespective of the nature of the subject. 
  Everthing likes  in the Eyes of the Beholder. So what despicability or  
  deplorability or disgraceful is there in Dr. Jose's  Paintings? I think he 
  needs to visit a Shrink.

  To sum up in short it is people like Dr. Santosh Helekar,  who are 
  communal frenzy and these are the people need to be  watched closely or 
  else they will be detrimental to the  society and the peace loving Goans.

  Sam

-- 


Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal,
Moira, Bardez,
Goa, India
E pinto...@gmail.com or ypinto...@yahoo.co.in
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-02 Thread Santosh Helekar
Prof. Augusto Pinto is nicely demonstrating the cheap political campaigning 
tactics that I had mentioned in this thread - tactics of smearing, linking with 
devilish political opponents, terrorist organizations, murderers, etc. The 
following quote of the professor has everything he accuses me of and more - 
twisting of words, spin-doctoring, verbal abuse and insults:

QUOTE
I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh Helekar for 
diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation and the irony of it 
is that he has accused FN - who was instrumental in pointing out to their 
perfidy - of being the aggressor!!
UNQUOTE
.Prof. Augusto Pinto

An utter lack of self-reflection is also evident. This is the malady that 
afflicts people who are driven by an unbalanced view of the world centered 
around recycled ideologies and visceral identities, rather than independent 
rational thought.

Do you think these people will ever succeed in doing anything constructive for 
the secular cause? I don't. They will continue fighting their petty political 
battles, cherry picking which murderers to shill for and which murderers to 
attack based on their prearranged ideological agenda. The same holds true for 
whom they abuse in public forums. Do you think Prof. Augusto or Admin Noronha 
will confront, speak out against or abuse AF for the following post?

QUOTE
when I first read of Mr. Pereira, the supposed 
intellect-turned-painter-turned-grumpy old man, i opined that he was just a 
self-taught wannabe great. Now, I read that he has painted Christ in the nude ( 
and the Hindus get angry that he has painted their Deities in the nude, too), I 
wonder where and how did he ever imagine where in the Bible there was any 
reference to a naked Christ. This man claims he has done research on nude 
Deities before formulating his drawings. I say he just wants to rile up the 
locals, from his self-exiled foreign perch. Shame on Mr. Pereira!
UNQUOTE
.AF

Please see: 
http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-August/196900.html

I don't.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Mon, 8/2/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I would like to congratulate Dr. Santosh Helekar on his
 ability to
 twist arguments, ideas and words in such a way that others
 are put
 completely on the defensive. This spin-doctor-ability is an
 absolute
 marvel to me.
 
 Look at the issue at hand. The subject is: Re: Jose Pereira
 at XCHR: A
 Recounting of Events. I had originally raised this issue to
 point to
 the perfidy of the Hindu Janajagriti Samiti who had through
 an allied
 organisation - the Sanatan Saunstha - put out hate
 propaganda through
 its newspaper the Sanatan Prabhat, and had published the
 phone numbers
 of the Xavier Centre for Historical Research which led to a
 spate of
 hate calls to the XCHR, wherein the 79 year old Dr. Jose
 Pereira was
 even threatened of being decapitated.
 
 At the XCHR  talk by  Dr. Jose Pereira, where the
 activists of the HJS
 intruded to lecture him about their hurt sentiments
 Frederick
 Noronha pointed out to them their perfidious act of
 publishing the
 phone numbers of the XCHR and suggesting to their misguided
 readers
 that they make threatening phone calls to the XCHR.
 
 Santosh Helekar used this point to hijack the subject
 of  Jose Pereira
 at XCHR: A Recounting of Events - to turn it into a
 diatribe against
 FN. The fact that an old scholar, artist and philosopher
 has been
 issued death threats has been drowned out in the
 meanwhile.
 
 Remember, the Sanatan Saunstha is the organisation which
 wanted to
 explode bombs on Narkasur day last year. The fact that they
 failed and
 killed two of their own members is a different issue.
 
 I am sure the Sanatanists will be very grateful to Santosh
 Helekar for
 diverting attention away from this terrorist organisation
 and the
 irony of it is that he has accused FN - who was
 instrumental in
 pointing out to their perfidy - of being the aggressor!!
 
 I wish to congratulate Santosh Helekar on his excellent
 rhetorical skills.
 
 -- 


  
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-01 Thread Rajan P. Parrikar
To Goanet -

Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote:
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that 
there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative 
of 

the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the 
exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin 
Noronha. 

I just took a look at the two posted videos.  The only piece of hostility there,
as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking,
coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha.   To the likes of Admin Noronha
and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance
is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every 
opportunity 
provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the 
biggest 
danger since Nazi Germany.  At the same time, they will invent every reason
possible to whitewash Muslim atrocities.  

The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the 
Sanatan Saunstha.  You can take this to the bank.

Now apropos of the video - I completely disagree with the lady representative
of the HJS.  Hurt feelings is a lame ploy.  I say, get tough and get real. 
 Your
faith ought not to be so fragile that some paintings somewhere rattles it.
You also do not have any right to disrupt a private exhibition funded by 
private monies.   (You may have had a case if public monies were being
used, in which case it should apply across the board, to all religions.)

Finally, Sri Krishna's amorous impulses and dalliances must be 
CELEBRATED - and they indeed, are, in song and dance, if these folks knew 
anything about their own traditions - not denied or kept under wraps.  It is a 
sad commentary on today's Hindus that they have internalized Christian and 
Muslim prudery to repudiate what is a glorious aspect of their own spiritual
and cultural tradition.

Regards,


r

* * *   

Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, 
Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of 
experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora 
Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] 
Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-01 Thread Frederick Noronha
Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing
themselves on Goanet.

Earlier, the argument used to be my bigots are better than your
bigots. Now it seems to have shifted to: if you challenge the logic
of my bigots, I will target you instead. All while claiming the
secular space! FN


On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com wrote:
 To Goanet -

 Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote:
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that
there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative 
of

the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the
exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin
Noronha.

 I just took a look at the two posted videos.  The only piece of hostility 
 there,
 as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu, communal, muckraking,
 coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha.   To the likes of Admin Noronha
 and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance
 is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated behinds at every
 opportunity
 provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the Hindu Right as the
 biggest
 danger since Nazi Germany.  At the same time, they will invent every reason
 possible to whitewash Muslim atrocities.

 The biggest danger to communal peace in Goa is this breed of dregs, not the
 Sanatan Saunstha.  You can take this to the bank.

 Now apropos of the video - I completely disagree with the lady representative
 of the HJS.  Hurt feelings is a lame ploy.  I say, get tough and get real.
  Your
 faith ought not to be so fragile that some paintings somewhere rattles it.
 You also do not have any right to disrupt a private exhibition funded by
 private monies.   (You may have had a case if public monies were being
 used, in which case it should apply across the board, to all religions.)

 Finally, Sri Krishna's amorous impulses and dalliances must be
 CELEBRATED - and they indeed, are, in song and dance, if these folks knew
 anything about their own traditions - not denied or kept under wraps.  It is a
 sad commentary on today's Hindus that they have internalized Christian and
 Muslim prudery to repudiate what is a glorious aspect of their own spiritual
 and cultural tradition.

* * *   

Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, 
Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of 
experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora 
Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] 
Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-01 Thread Rajan P. Parrikar
To Goanet -

Frederick Noronha wrote:
Glad to note that the skin-deep secularists are now exposing 
themselves on Goanet.

I am not a secularist, never have been.  Frederick Noronha once 
again goes about his daily drip of lies and smears.

The only one who stands exposed on Goanet is Frederick Noronha.
The light is now shining on those parts of Admin Noronha where the 
sun rarely shines.

Admin Noronha should tell his fellow Catholics from the villages 
of Arossim, Cansaulim, Benaulim etc if he has been subsidized (and 
by whom) to downplay and/or deny the rampant construction 
madness in Goa.  Catholic villagers of San Jose de Areal and other
Salcette villages also want to know if Admin Noronha is subsidized 
to shill for the ghatis that have been stuffed in the voter rolls.

Regards,


r
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-01 Thread Santosh Helekar
I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is clear to 
me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for this belief are 
quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an entrenched ideology. As with all 
ideologies, it has outlived its purpose, if it had any purpose in the first 
place. Like its counterparts, it pigeonholes everybody who does not swallow its 
precepts hook, line and sinker, into a monolithic camp opposed to all that is 
good and dandy in this world. That is why he, like others with similar 
afflictions, uses the usual methods of negative political campaigning against 
people who are different in any respect from him - the methods of guilt by 
association, smear, innuendo, etc. 

The other unfortunate casualty of this unreasonable outlook, beholden to a 
political ideology rather than to a rational approach towards the day-to-day 
transactions of regular folk, is an inability to recognize their habitual 
lapses in fairness and even-handedness. The confrontational attitude that he 
showed in that video amidst a sober and sensible discussion between two parties 
should give you some insight into what I am talking about. 

A person who is secular is first and foremost dispassionate and considerate. 
She proceeds with no presumptions, or the presumption of innocence, in her 
every day interactions. She recognizes that even good and decent people can be 
misguided, and indeed, quite often are. I am hoping to see a glimpse of this 
someday in Admin Noronha and other like-minded folk who like to think of 
themselves as fighting for the secular cause.

Cheers,

Santosh


--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com wrote:

 Glad to note that the skin-deep
 secularists are now exposing
 themselves on Goanet.
 
 Earlier, the argument used to be my bigots are better than
 your
 bigots. Now it seems to have shifted to: if you challenge
 the logic
 of my bigots, I will target you instead. All while
 claiming the
 secular space! FN
 
 
 On 1 August 2010 05:29, Rajan P. Parrikar parri...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
  I just took a look at the two posted videos.  The
 only piece of hostility there,
  as Dr. Helekar has noted, came from the anti-Hindu,
 communal, muckraking,
  coward-of-a-smear-merchant Frederick Noronha.   To
 the likes of Admin Noronha
  and his fellow cohorts like the Commie operator
 Gadgil, only Hindu malfeasance
  is visible, and they will lie through their pustulated
 behinds at every
  opportunity
  provided by the fringe Hindu rightwing to portray the
 Hindu Right as the
  biggest
  danger since Nazi Germany.  


  
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-08-01 Thread Rajan P. Parrikar
To Goanet -

Dr. Santosh Helekar wrote:
I do not agree with Rajan that Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu. But it is
clear to me that he is not a secular pluralist either. The grounds for
this belief are quite obvious. Admin Noronha is driven by an
entrenched ideology. As with all ideologies, it has outlived its
purpose, if it had any purpose in the first place. 

My use of the term anti-Hindu for Admin Noronha was deliberate.

Criticism of Hinduism, Hindus, Hindu Right, Hindu Anything in itself does not
make anyone anti-Hindu.  To cite an extreme case, I have never thought 
of Nascy as anti-Hindu.  Semi-literate clown, yes.  Anti-Hindu, no.  

The anti-Hindu fellow harbours a deep resentment towards any assertion 
of Hindu identity or any attempt at Hindu organization, whether it is political 
or social.  Anytime he sees something which in his mind demonstrates  Hindu 
strength his instinct is to smear it, or fabricate stories to tar the 
individual 

or group.  Groups like HJS are a Godsend to him for they feed right into 
his pre-conceived narrative.

At the same time, similar expression by Christians, Jews, or Muslims elicits 
no such disapproval; indeed Muslim atrocities are whitewashed as a matter
of course.  Exhibit A of this breed is the Indian Marxist, of which we had one 
here on Goanet  (I hear that that bhailo is now fouling the air in the 
capitalist haven of Singapore. The hypocrite.)  

Admin Noronha is anti-Hindu in the sense outlined but I am not sure he is 
actuated by any ideology - that would mean that his worldview is shaped by
reflection and study, for which there is no evidence whatsoever.  What we 
know is that he is a master of the cut  paste, an agile Googlemeister, a 
garden-variety smear merchant, a  purveyor of slime  lies.  I wouldn't go 
digging into Noronha's soul looking for anything deeper. 

Regards,


r
* * *   

In every way, the Goans of Bombay were part of the great melee that was this 
metropolis, distinct perhaps in the way communities often are, holding on to 
their own traditions but merging slowly nonetheless and forming the thin thread 
of nationhood that would eventually become India. -- Selma Carvalho, in *Into 
the Goan Diaspora Wilderness*. Available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph 
+91-9822488564]   Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *


Re: [Goanet] Jose Pereira at XCHR: A Recounting of Events

2010-07-31 Thread Santosh Helekar
At variance with what is posted below, I was pleasantly surprised to see that 
there was a polite and respectful discussion between the lady representative of 
the extremist Hindu organization, Dr. Jose Pereira and the organizers of the 
exhibition. The only provocation for confrontation that I saw was from Admin 
Noronha.

It is true that there can be multiple interpretations for scriptures, and 
literary texts, which add to its cultural value, but unfortunately religious 
folk insist on their own unique interpretation. This is true for all religions. 
The important question therefore in a secular democracy is how to deal with 
this issue. 

I for one would vote to protect artistic and academic freedom above everything 
else.

Cheers,

Santosh

--- On Sat, 7/31/10, augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 He said that they had in their newspaper, the Marathi,
 Sanatan
 Prabhat, provocatively provided the phone numbers of the
 XCHR and
 suggested that their readers should ring up this number and
 threaten
 them.
 
 The intruders who could be seen to be becoming
 increasingly
 uncomfortable by the gandhigiri displayed by the
 organisers,  as well
 as the fact that they were being shown up to be an
 irrational trouble
 fomenting group, then beat a hasty retreat.



  

* * *   

Encounter hints (and more) of the Goan life in Zanzibar, Poona, Mombasa, Basra, 
Dubai, and even Nuvem and Colva, Sanvordem and colonial Goa. Learn of 
experiences that shaped Goans worldwide. Selma Carvalho's *Into the Diaspora 
Wilderness* now available at Broadways Book Centre, Panjim [Ph +91-9822488564] 
Ask a friend to buy it, before it gets sold out. Price (in Goa only) Rs 295.  
http://selmacarvalho.squarespace.com/

* * *