Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Christian Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will keep my idea for a cookbook going, Please consider to use the GRASS Wiki for that. This is the best place to develop community documents. Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially for those people, the cookbook is necessary. That's perfect. (Power) users are the right people to write user documentation. The document will most likely evolve into the right direction. Markus ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
+1 on the ps.map cookbook I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas: 1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding the ps.atlas script. 2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for landuse/cover, geology, etc. 3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout 4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps (scribus, gimp, latex) When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts. Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :). Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile. cheers, maning On 7/3/08, Christian Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will keep my idea for a cookbook going, since the GRASS version upgrade rate for users can take months to years. And considering that GRASS 6.4 is not out, seems that GRASS 7 final will be out in 2009/2010. Then... for some users, grass 7 is years away... Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially for those people, the cookbook is necessary. Thomas Adams is with me... who else? Christian On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Landa wrote: Why ps.map lacks so much user support? Good question. I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1], should be done in the next few mouths. FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x. Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands. -- Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
FYI, I've added some more hints tricks to the wiki page: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts Moritz Lennert wrote: See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/ for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping, proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the pattern files I used... Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/ Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an example, but can't find the psmap file right now :-( ) Nice bar graphs - lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map. how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend? Hamish ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
maning sambale: I can provide my ps.map files. thanks - http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts Some ideas: 1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding the ps.atlas script. see http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_AddOns#ps.atlas 2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for landuse/cover, geology, etc. go for it. instructions to do that are at the above link. 3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout advanced options are only used if you specify them. by default you just need basic 1 or 2 line instructions. (?) 4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps (scribus, gimp, latex) those in the know, please expand: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts#Integration_with_other_software regards, Hamish ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
On 03/07/08 15:56, Hamish wrote: FYI, I've added some more hints tricks to the wiki page: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts Moritz Lennert wrote: See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/ for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping, proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the pattern files I used... Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/ Yes, but I customized them slightly for my needs and I think I must have erased those customised versions... Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an example, but can't find the psmap file right now :-( ) Nice bar graphs - lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map. Yep, actually much more than d.vect.chart since you can create any form you want (have also worked with triangles)... how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend? I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap files) with the points placed at the spot where I would like the legend. Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just like the real one... One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are sure to have the largest in the back... But I would like to work on all this for a new d.thematic.points...when I have time again. Moritz ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
On 03/07/08 16:47, Hamish wrote: Hamish: how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend? Moritz Lennert wrote: I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap files) with the points placed at the spot where I would like the legend. Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just like the real one... thanks for the trick. One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are sure to have the largest in the back... fillcolor=none and go by outer ring :-/ ISTR some code to sort them was committed somewhere.. I once created a d.vect.chart2 [1] in which I sorted the bubbles, but never committed it. At this stage, I'd rather implement it in d.thematic.point. I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps. They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are darker where they overlap. PostScript won't do transparency, so perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers. Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ? But I still think that an option to ordering them should be available. Moritz [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2006-October/026624.html ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Moritz Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PDF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PostScript Hamish ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Moritz Lennert wrote: I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps. They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are darker where they overlap. PostScript won't do transparency, so perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers. Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ? No. PostScript will probably never attempt to include translucency in the same way that video-oriented graphics systems do. For video, translucency is implemented by alpha-blending, i.e. interpolating between the colour being drawn and what's already in the frame buffer. Printers only have 1-bit per component in the frame buffer, i.e. 1bpp for mono, 4bpp for CMYK, and use halftones to simulate intermediate shades. Interpolation doesn't work when you only have off and on. You can simulate translucency to an extent in PostScript using pattern fills. But this is a lot more complex than with video, as you have to specifically design all of the patterns to produce the correct result when overlaid, which means figuring out which parts overlap each other in advance. The alternative is to render eveything to a 24-bpp image then print that. But that creates huge PS/PDF files, which isn't a problem if you're just sending PS to a printer, but isn't good if you're making PDFs for download. For similar reasons, PDF only supports translucency for filled areas, not for images. SVG doesn't have this problem, as it's targeted at video rather than hardcopy. -- Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Hello Maning, Yes... I would like to receive your contributions (ps.map files). On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:14 AM, maning sambale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 on the ps.map cookbook I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas: 1. Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding the ps.atlas script. 2. More http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for landuse/cover, geology, etc. This looks interesting. 3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout 4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps (scribus, gimp, latex) This is a point where we need someone with a good experience on it to contribute. When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts. Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :). Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile. Yes, this is true. Markus... I will use the Wiki, ok? Let's make this way... I will organize the cookbook this way (plus with the ideas from Maning) 1) Short description how ps.map works (concept); 2) One or two simple scripts (to newbies have a startup); 3) Some advanced scripts; For the complex/advanced scripts my idea is do something similar to the Mapserver books from Tyler M. and Bill K. (I have both :-D)... build a long ps.map file step-by-step. To make it clear what each part is really doing, and how customize it. Comments? Best regards, Christian PS: Thanks Hamish and Moritz for the contributions! ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
On Wednesday 02 July 2008, Christian Ferreira wrote: Hi all, I come here with a question/dilemma... Why ps.map lacks so much user support? Good question. A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to produce maps. GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the ultimate result: a map. Partially by design, GRASS is primarily geared toward data processing and analysis. Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts, and there is the GMT cookbook on the official website. Glad you mention GMT. It could potentially become what ps.map isn't quite once the python bindings for both GMT and GRASS are a little more mature. But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here: http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps... and you know, a lot of people will never lose their time trying to figure out how ps.map works just using the man page. Ps.map also needs a cookbook in the future. And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented. A ps.map cookbook would be nice- would you like to start it? I imagine that you will get a couple good ones after posting this. Once you have them, along with a screen shot, you could post the annotated examples on the wiki. I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion too)... normally I need to export all my region/data to GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map. For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with GRASS since 2001... but guess if GRASS was used for the final map? This is a shame for me. :-( It is a shame. GMT is usually my map-making favorite. Alternatively GRASS + GMT + Inkscape / Illustrator. I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take sometime until it became truth. So... If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real ps.map cookbook on the GRASS-Wiki. Who will join me, and share some material? Best regards, Christian Good luck, Dylan -- Christian dos Santos Ferreira Oceanographer Coordinator of Poseidon Linux QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese) GRASS user since 2001 and philosopher for features ;-) ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user -- Dylan Beaudette Soil Resource Laboratory http://casoilresource.lawr.ucdavis.edu/ University of California at Davis 530.754.7341 ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Martin Landa wrote: Why ps.map lacks so much user support? Good question. I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1], should be done in the next few mouths. FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x. Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands. -- Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Hi, 2008/7/2 Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Martin Landa wrote: Why ps.map lacks so much user support? Good question. I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1], should be done in the next few mouths. FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x. Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands. I know, GUI for ps.map is just temporary solution (at least for grass6), some notes here http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Direct_printing Martin -- Martin Landa landa.martin gmail.com * http://gama.fsv.cvut.cz/~landa * ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
[moving this to the grass-dev list..] Glynn: FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x. Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands. any reason other than redunancy? It is highly useful to some and currently outpaces d.* for quality. Duplicate functionality is only a reason if: a) it does a worse job for the task (debatable-personal choice), or b) it distracts the developer pool too much from working on new things. c) adds too much bulk none of which are the case, IMO. it does a good job and the code hardly changes (I think I'm the only one who actually works on it). It doesn't touch anything outside its directory and the code is a fairly small portion of the overall tarball. i.e., what is the cost of leaving it there for those who depend on it? AFAICS the primary thing it lacks is a nice GUI frontend composer. Hamish ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
Re: [GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma
Glynn: FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x. Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands. Hamish: any reason other than redunancy? Glynn: Partly redundancy, mainly to ensure that people complain about any deficiencies with the alternative. ok. As d.* is the main track and ps.map is mostly a periphery I wouldn't get too worried about that. But I really have no idea how many people use ps.map versus d.out.file/Cairo, or the PNG driver, or QGIS, or .. You are correct in that I expect the hard core ps.map users will probably be among the better/noisier testers for the next generation d.* PS driver. FWIW once grass7 goes mainstream if I still need ps.map for work, I'll port it (can't afford downtime, etc). The question then becomes whether to include it [back] in the main distro or keep it as an addon. I don't see much point in debating that too much until both grass7 and the port actually exist. wrt ps.map usability: In my experience, once you have spent the time to learn how to use it, ps.map rocks for publication quality stuff- where you don't mind throwing in a bit more time. Maybe oh, just edit the PostScript file by hand to fix that is a bit over the top, but part of my point in doing that is to show that it really isn't that scary, it's just a text file with commands in it and the user is in charge. I will try and add a few more tipshints onto the wiki page. wrt GMT: perhaps the output is more refined, but the learning curve and command line comfort is about the same and the integration not as good so far. I look forward to seeing improved *.out.gmt scripts and hope the ones we have now can be consolidated. Maybe a nice (albeit perhaps off-topic enough to not make the cut) Google Summer of Code project for next year would be to improve GRASS-GMT flow. enjoys choices and working on clunky old sports cars, Hamish ___ grass-user mailing list grass-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/grass-user
