Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Markus Neteler
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Christian Ferreira
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,


 While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
 keep my idea for a cookbook going,

Please consider to use the GRASS Wiki for that. This is the best place
to develop community documents.

 Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
 future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
 newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
 for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

That's perfect. (Power) users are the right people to write user documentation.

The document will most likely evolve into the right direction.

Markus
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread maning sambale
+1 on the ps.map cookbook

I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas:
1.  Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single
ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding
the ps.atlas script.

2. More  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
landuse/cover, geology, etc.

3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps
(scribus, gimp, latex)

When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts.
Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :).
Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile.

cheers,
maning


On 7/3/08, Christian Ferreira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,


 While the core developers decide about the future for ps.map... I will
 keep my idea for a cookbook going, since the GRASS version upgrade
 rate for users can take months to years. And considering that GRASS
 6.4 is not out, seems that GRASS 7 final will be out in 2009/2010.

 Then... for some users, grass 7 is years away...

 Also, I not a developer... so, my focus is not so much into the
 future... but in the actual situation... the potential users and
 newbie users that GRASS lose every year because of ps.map. Specially
 for those people, the cookbook is necessary.

 Thomas Adams is with me... who else?

 Christian

 On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Glynn Clements
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Martin Landa wrote:

  Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
 
  Good question.

 I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
 should be done in the next few mouths.

 FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

 Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

 --
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Hamish
FYI, I've added some more hints  tricks to the wiki page:
  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts



Moritz Lennert wrote:
 See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/
 
 for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping,
 proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem
 to have lost the pattern files I used...

Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/

 
 Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some
 more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then
 integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an
 example, but can't find the psmap file right now :-( )

Nice bar graphs - lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map.

how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?


Hamish



  
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Hamish
maning sambale:
 I can provide my ps.map files.

thanks  -  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

 Some ideas:
 1.  Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use
 a single ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map
 atlas expanding the ps.atlas script.

see  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/GRASS_AddOns#ps.atlas

 2. More  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
 landuse/cover, geology, etc.

go for it. instructions to do that are at the above link.

 3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

advanced options are only used if you specify them.
by default you just need basic 1 or 2 line instructions.
(?)

 4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other
 graphics/printing apps (scribus, gimp, latex)

those in the know, please expand:
 http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts#Integration_with_other_software


regards,
Hamish



  
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Moritz Lennert

On 03/07/08 15:56, Hamish wrote:

FYI, I've added some more hints  tricks to the wiki page:
  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts



Moritz Lennert wrote:

See http://geog-pc40.ulb.ac.be/grass/psmap/

for two ps.map files and the resulting map, showing thematic mapping,
proportionate circles and patterns. Unfortunately, I seem
to have lost the pattern files I used...


Look in $GISBASE/etc/paint/patterns/


Yes, but I customized them slightly for my needs and I think I must have 
erased those customised versions...




 

Once I have some time, I'll try to contribute some
more, possibly about using R to create symbols which you can then
integrate with the eps '$' option in vpoints (see ages.png as an
example, but can't find the psmap file right now :-( )


Nice bar graphs - lets you do d.vect.chart magic with ps.map.


Yep, actually much more than d.vect.chart since you can create any form 
you want (have also worked with triangles)...




how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?


I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap files) with the 
points placed at the spot where I would like the legend. Then it 
suffices to update the values in the attribute table to relevant values 
related to your map and to display this 'map' just like the real one...


One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the lack of the 
possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are sure to have the largest 
in the back...


But I would like to work on all this for a new d.thematic.points...when 
I have time again.



Moritz

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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Moritz Lennert

On 03/07/08 16:47, Hamish wrote:

Hamish:

how to set up an accurate bubble plot legend?


Moritz Lennert wrote:

I create a new vector point map (belscale in the psmap
files) with the points placed at the spot where I would
like the legend.
Then it suffices to update the values in the attribute table to
relevant values related to your map and to display this 'map' just
like the real one...


thanks for the trick.
 

One thing that still bothers me with bubble plot is the
lack of the possibility to sort the bubbles so that you are
sure to have the largest in the back...


fillcolor=none  and go by outer ring  :-/
ISTR some code to sort them was committed somewhere..


I once created a d.vect.chart2 [1] in which I sorted the bubbles, but 
never committed it. At this stage, I'd rather implement it in 
d.thematic.point.




I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps.
They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are
darker where they overlap. PostScript won't do transparency, so
perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers.


Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

But I still think that an option to ordering them should be available.

Moritz

[1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2006-October/026624.html

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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Hamish
Moritz
 Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PDF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transparency_(graphic)#Transparency_in_PostScript


Hamish



  
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Glynn Clements

Moritz Lennert wrote:

  I see the New York Times often has nice bubble plots for their maps.
  They make the fill color semi-transparent, then stacked bubbles are
  darker where they overlap. PostScript won't do transparency, so
  perhaps something to look for in the grass7 display drivers.
 
 Doesn't postscript 3 include transparency ?

No.

PostScript will probably never attempt to include translucency in the
same way that video-oriented graphics systems do.

For video, translucency is implemented by alpha-blending, i.e. 
interpolating between the colour being drawn and what's already in the
frame buffer.

Printers only have 1-bit per component in the frame buffer, i.e. 1bpp
for mono, 4bpp for CMYK, and use halftones to simulate intermediate
shades. Interpolation doesn't work when you only have off and on.

You can simulate translucency to an extent in PostScript using pattern
fills. But this is a lot more complex than with video, as you have to
specifically design all of the patterns to produce the correct result
when overlaid, which means figuring out which parts overlap each other
in advance.

The alternative is to render eveything to a 24-bpp image then print
that. But that creates huge PS/PDF files, which isn't a problem if
you're just sending PS to a printer, but isn't good if you're making
PDFs for download.

For similar reasons, PDF only supports translucency for filled areas,
not for images.

SVG doesn't have this problem, as it's targeted at video rather than
hardcopy.

-- 
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-03 Thread Christian Ferreira
Hello Maning,


Yes... I would like to receive your contributions (ps.map files).

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:14 AM, maning sambale
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 +1 on the ps.map cookbook

 I can provide my ps.map files. Some ideas:
 1.  Techniques in making atlas, like a script that can use a single
 ps.map config to a number of regions to create a map atlas expanding
 the ps.atlas script.

 2. More  http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/AreaFillPatterns for
 landuse/cover, geology, etc.


This looks interesting.

 3. Basic/advanced ps.map config for various map layout

 4. How-to on integrating ps.map output to other graphics/printing apps
 (scribus, gimp, latex)


This is a point where we need someone with a good experience on it to
contribute.

 When I got the hang of ps.map, I find it easier to tweak map layouts.
 Much like when you got the hang of using mapserver's map file :).
 Actually it seems very similar to mapserver's mapfile.


Yes, this is true.

Markus... I will use the Wiki, ok?

Let's make this way... I will organize the cookbook this way (plus
with the ideas from Maning)

1) Short description how ps.map works (concept);
2) One or two simple scripts (to newbies have a startup);
3) Some advanced scripts;

For the complex/advanced scripts my idea is do something similar to
the Mapserver books from Tyler M. and Bill K. (I have both :-D)...
build a long ps.map file step-by-step. To make it clear what each part
is really doing, and how customize it.

Comments?

Best regards,
Christian

PS: Thanks Hamish and Moritz for the contributions!
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[GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Christian Ferreira
Hi all,


I come here with a question/dilemma...

Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody
use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to
produce maps.

GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the
ultimate result: a map.

Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts,
and there is the GMT cookbook on the official website.

But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here:

http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php

But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps...
and you know, a lot of people will never lose their time trying to
figure out how ps.map works just using the man page.

Ps.map also needs a cookbook in the future.

And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented.

I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in
my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion
too)... normally I need to export all my region/data to
GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map.

For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National
Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with
GRASS since 2001... but guess if GRASS was used for the final map?

This is a shame for me. :-(

I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take
sometime until it became truth.

So... If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at
least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real
ps.map cookbook on the GRASS-Wiki.

Who will join me, and share some material?

Best regards,
Christian

--
Christian dos Santos Ferreira
Oceanographer
Coordinator of Poseidon Linux
QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese)
GRASS user since 2001 and philosopher for features ;-)
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Dylan Beaudette
On Wednesday 02 July 2008, Christian Ferreira wrote:
 Hi all,


 I come here with a question/dilemma...

 Why ps.map lacks so much user support?

Good question.

 A lot of people know about GRASS all over the world, but nearly nobody
 use it, since nearly any software in the world is less difficult to
 produce maps.

 GRASS is a wonderful tool for analysis, but it fails to produce the
 ultimate result: a map.

Partially by design, GRASS is primarily geared toward data processing and 
analysis.

 Even GMT is widely used, because a lot of people SHARE the scripts,
 and there is the GMT cookbook on the official website.

Glad you mention GMT. It could potentially become what ps.map isn't quite once 
the python bindings for both GMT and GRASS are a little more mature.

 But for GRASS everybody can see some good examples here:

 http://grass.itc.it/screenshots/cartography.php

 But nearly nobody share the scripts to make these wonderful maps...
 and you know, a lot of people will never lose their time trying to
 figure out how ps.map works just using the man page.

 Ps.map also needs a cookbook in the future.

 And at: http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/Ps.map_scripts

 Ok, we have finally a few scripts, but poorly documented.

A ps.map cookbook would be nice- would you like to start it? I imagine that 
you will get a couple good ones after posting this. Once you have them, along 
with a screen shot, you could post the annotated examples on the wiki.

 I use GRASS since 2001, it is nearly a complete solution for GIS (in
 my opinion), but ps.map was always the weak point (in my opinion
 too)... normally I need to export all my region/data to
 GMT/ArcView/Surfer to make the final map.

 For example, my latest work was two pages for an atlas for National
 Geographic Brasil/Brazil, with a work that I started developing with
 GRASS since 2001... but guess if GRASS was used for the final map?

 This is a shame for me. :-(

It is a shame. GMT is usually my map-making favorite. Alternatively GRASS + 
GMT + Inkscape / Illustrator.

 I am aware of g-ps.map (the alternate GUI for ps.map), but will take
 sometime until it became truth.

 So... If there someone who wants to share his knowlegde, I can at
 least help to compile and document the material to prepare a real
 ps.map cookbook on the GRASS-Wiki.

 Who will join me, and share some material?

 Best regards,
 Christian

Good luck,

Dylan


 --
 Christian dos Santos Ferreira
 Oceanographer
 Coordinator of Poseidon Linux
 QGIS translator (EN to Brazilian Portuguese)
 GRASS user since 2001 and philosopher for features ;-)
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Glynn Clements

Martin Landa wrote:

  Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
 
  Good question.
 
 I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
 should be done in the next few mouths.

FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

-- 
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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Martin Landa
Hi,

2008/7/2 Glynn Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Martin Landa wrote:

  Why ps.map lacks so much user support?
 
  Good question.

 I am planning to design the GUI for ps.map as a part of wxGUI [1],
 should be done in the next few mouths.

 FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

 Equivalent functionality will be available through d.* commands.

I know, GUI for ps.map is just temporary solution (at least for
grass6), some notes here

http://grass.osgeo.org/wiki/WxPython-based_GUI_for_GRASS#Direct_printing

Martin

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Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Hamish
[moving this to the grass-dev list..]

Glynn:
 FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.

 Equivalent functionality will be available through d.*
 commands.

any reason other than redunancy?

It is highly useful to some and currently outpaces d.* for quality. 
Duplicate functionality is only a reason if:

a) it does a worse job for the task (debatable-personal choice), or
b) it distracts the developer pool too much from working on new things.
c) adds too much bulk

none of which are the case, IMO. it does a good job and the code hardly changes 
(I think I'm the only one who actually works on it). It doesn't touch anything 
outside its directory and the code is a fairly small portion of the overall 
tarball.

i.e., what is the cost of leaving it there for those who depend on it?

AFAICS the primary thing it lacks is a nice GUI frontend composer.


Hamish



  
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Re: [GRASS-dev] Re: [GRASS-user] ps.map dilemma

2008-07-02 Thread Hamish
Glynn:
   FWIW, I'm planning to remove ps.map from 7.x.
  
   Equivalent functionality will be available through d.*
   commands.
Hamish:
  any reason other than redunancy?
Glynn:
 Partly redundancy, mainly to ensure that people complain
 about any deficiencies with the alternative.

ok. As d.* is the main track and ps.map is mostly a periphery I wouldn't
get too worried about that. But I really have no idea how many people
use ps.map versus d.out.file/Cairo, or the PNG driver, or QGIS, or ..
You are correct in that I expect the hard core ps.map users will probably
be among the better/noisier testers for the next generation d.* PS driver.

FWIW once grass7 goes mainstream if I still need ps.map for work, I'll
port it (can't afford downtime, etc). The question then becomes whether
to include it [back] in the main distro or keep it as an addon. I don't
see much point in debating that too much until both grass7 and the port
actually exist.


wrt ps.map usability: In my experience, once you have spent the time to
learn how to use it, ps.map rocks for publication quality stuff- where you
don't mind throwing in a bit more time. Maybe oh, just edit the PostScript 
file by hand to fix that is a bit over the top, but part of my point in
doing that is to show that it really isn't that scary, it's just a text
file with commands in it and the user is in charge. I will try and add a
few more tipshints onto the wiki page.

wrt GMT: perhaps the output is more refined, but the learning curve and
command line comfort is about the same and the integration not as good
so far. I look forward to seeing improved *.out.gmt scripts and hope the
ones we have now can be consolidated. Maybe a nice (albeit perhaps
off-topic enough to not make the cut) Google Summer of Code project for
next year would be to improve GRASS-GMT flow.


enjoys choices and working on clunky old sports cars,
Hamish




  
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