Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Sverre Slotte
On 7.1.2012 09:57, ext Dave Kemper wrote: The following is written in the context of typesetting a primarily continuous-prose work such as a novel. Some time ago, Steve Izma eloquently posted (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2004-03/msg00091.html) on why orphans are fine and widows

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Ralph Corderoy
Hi, Sverre Slotte wrote: The web-page http://troff.org/macros.html has (under the To Do section) this interesting entry: The -mpm Macro Package B. W. Kernighan and C. J. Van Wyk. Describes the -mpm macros, a version of -ms that does automatic page balancing. It was used and acknowledged

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Peter Schaffter
Hi. On Sat, Jan 07, 2012, Pierre-Jean wrote: Dave Kemper saint.s...@gmail.com wrote: In professionally typeset novels, when a page is shortened by one line to eliminate a widow on the following page, bottom-line alignment is handled in one of two ways (at least, in the novels where I've

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Robert Thorsby
On 08/01/12 08:31:40, Peter Schaffter wrote: So, dealing with orphans by changing the line spacing, is just a no other choice solution. You should prefer dealing with interword and interletter spaces. Correct. The shortening or lengthening of paragraphs to avoid widows and orphans

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Ted Harding
On 07-Jan-2012 Robert Thorsby wrote: On 08/01/12 08:31:40, Peter Schaffter wrote: So, dealing with orphans by changing the line spacing, is just a no other choice solution. You should prefer dealing with interword and interletter spaces. Correct. The shortening or lengthening of

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Robert Thorsby
On 08/01/12 09:59:46, ted.hard...@wlandres.net wrote: I've been hesitating about joining in, because (as is already beginning to emerge) it is potentially a complex question; and also the kind of solution which should be preferred is a question of taste, convention, or context, as well as

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Sun, Jan 08, 2012, Robert Thorsby wrote: Is there an alternative method that is better/faster/cleaner than the use of complementary values for \s and \H? For example, Track kerning, via the .tk request, and word spacing via .ss. Changing what used to be called the set size of your type (ie

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Sun, Jan 08, 2012, Robert Thorsby wrote: As everyone knows, when the discussion turns to tracking, typesetting has assumed the mantle of a black art. Not really, or, if it is a black art, then it's an essential one to master, possibly _the_ essential one. No matter where I have worked,

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Deri James
On Saturday 07 Jan 2012 22:59:46 Ted Harding wrote: Just a few somewhat random thoughts. I've been through this sort of thing too often for it to be easy or quick to summarise! I remember reading (on this list) a PHD thesis by Han The Thanh (of pdfTEX fame) on micro typography, although the

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Ted Harding
On 08-Jan-2012 Deri James wrote: On Saturday 07 Jan 2012 22:59:46 Ted Harding wrote: Just a few somewhat random thoughts. I've been through this sort of thing too often for it to be easy or quick to summarise! I remember reading (on this list) a PHD thesis by Han The Thanh (of pdfTEX fame)

Re: [Groff] holistic widow elimination

2012-01-07 Thread Werner LEMBERG
I remember reading (on this list) a PHD thesis by Han The Thanh (of pdfTEX fame) on micro typography, although the original is now a dead link I think I've found it here:- http://www.pragma-ade.com/pdftex/thesis.pdf Many thought provoking ideas. All his ideas (or rather, Hermann Zapf's