Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

On 4/4/23, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > At 2023-04-04T16:26:30+, Michał Kruszewski wrote: >> pdfroff has .pdfinfo, how to achieve the same with groff? > > groff's pdf output driver supports it as well, with the same syntax I > think; but to my surprise it is not documented in the gropdf(1)

Re: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

Hi Steve, On 4/10/23 15:45, Steve Izma wrote: > On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 10:03:34AM +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote: >> Subject: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff >> 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4) >> >> troff chapter.tr >chapte

Re: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 10:03:34AM +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Subject: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff > 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4) > > troff chapter.tr >chapter.set > grops chapter.set >chapter.ps > > Short, simp

Re: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

Quoth DJ Chase: $ file chapter.set chapter.set: ditroff output text for PostScript, ASCII text Wouldn’t “.ditroff” be more appropriate? file tells you that chapter.set contains the ouput of ditroff, not ditroff itself. So no, both .set (which I find agreeable) and .trout

Re: A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

On Mon Apr 10, 2023 at 5:03 AM EDT, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > troff lays out its input. > The input has been placed on the page. > It is typeset. > It is set. > > troff chapter.tr >chapter.set $ file chapter.set chapter.set: ditroff output text for PostScript, ASCII text

A file suffix for troff's output. (Was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

Hi Branden, > Perhaps you can think of some alternative names for distinguishing > formatter output that we expect non-groff output drivers to be able to > cope with from those that exercise the extension. troff lays out its input. The input has been placed on the page. It is typeset. It is set.

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi John, At 2023-04-08T23:46:52+1000, John Gardner wrote: > > I know I will be mightily tempted to encourage others to adopt the > > practice, in large part because "device-independent [gt]roff] > > output" is far too long to type or speak repeatedly. > > I've always just called it "ditroff"

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

> > Yes. Though it contains device-dependent troff output. :-) > Aye, but most folks would find that less confusing than a format named after a fish … ;-) > The ‘dit’ suffix is probably what I've seen the most. > Same, although I personally prefer to

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi John, > I've always just called it "ditroff" (*"device-independent troff > [output]"*), with *.dit and *.ditroff being my typical choice of file > extensions. The ‘dit’ suffix is probably what I've seen the most. > I'm aware that it's a reappropriation of an obsolete name for all >

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi Branden, > I know I will be mightily tempted to encourage others to adopt the > practice, in large part because "device-independent [gt]roff] output" is > far too long to type or speak repeatedly. I've always just called it "ditroff" (*"device-independent troff [output]"*), with *.dit and

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

On Thu, 6 Apr 2023, G. Branden Robinson wrote: At 2023-04-06T10:39:13+, Lennart Jablonka wrote: Then comes the noteworthy bit: Concatenate the troff output of all those separate documents and feed it all to the postprocessor at once, as in troff -ms mainmatter.ms >mainmatter.trout

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

At 2023-04-06T10:39:13+, Lennart Jablonka wrote: > Then comes the noteworthy bit: Concatenate the troff output of all > those separate documents and feed it all to the postprocessor at once, > as in > > troff -ms mainmatter.ms >mainmatter.trout 2>toc > { troff frontmatter && troff

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

[self-reply to correct an error] I had a missing word thinko here that changed the meaning of a sentence. At 2023-04-06T20:24:13-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Further, on a cover page, should initial spacing be measured from the > first vee on the page (as it would be in a "raw" roff

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi Michał, At 2023-04-06T19:41:44+, Michał Kruszewski wrote: > So it is now explained why .bp is broken. I am attaching yet another > reproducer. This time there is a problem with the .sp before > Abstract. In 1.23.0.rc3 this .sp is simply ignored, while in 1.22.4 > it is correctly

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

So it is now explained why .bp is broken. I am attaching yet another reproducer. This time there is a problem with the .sp before Abstract. In 1.23.0.rc3 this .sp is simply ignored, while in 1.22.4 it is correctly applied. Best regards, Michał Kruszewski Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Quoth Michał Kruszewski: I would like to have simple structure: custom cover page -> ToC -> custom page -> text. The easiest way to do all these things is to split the document in multiple ones. Have one troff document for the cover page. There is little reason for it to use ms. Have one

Re: an opinionated history of *roff macro packages (was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

Branden, On Thu, 6 Apr 2023, G. Branden Robinson wrote: At 2023-04-05T18:13:16+, Micha? Kruszewski wrote: I have once evaluated ms, mm and mom. I have come from the Latex world after being sick of its bloat. I was looking for something simple. I know some differences between ms, mm

an opinionated history of *roff macro packages (was: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4)

[dropped Peter from CC; I'm sure he'll find one copy of this enough] Hi Michał, At 2023-04-05T18:13:16+, Michał Kruszewski wrote: > I have once evaluated ms, mm and mom. I have come from the Latex > world after being sick of its bloat. I was looking for something > simple. I know some

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

At 2023-04-05T13:04:45-0500, Dave Kemper wrote: > The missing page break you're seeing here is due to a combination of > factors: > - Immediately before the .bp, you call the .DE macro > - The .DE macro was recently modified to invoke the .ns request. > - When no-space mode (.ns) is in effect,

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Hi Peter, I have once evaluated ms, mm and mom. I have come from the Latex world after being sick of its bloat. I was looking for something simple. I know some differences between ms, mm and mom, but I do not really understand why people did not want to cooperate to create a single macro package

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

On 4/5/23, Michał Kruszewski wrote: > There are so many differences between pdfroff 1.22.4 <-> groff 1.22.4 and > between groff 1.22.4 <-> 1.23.0rc3 that I think I am lost. 1.23 is definitely a quantum leap forward from 1.22.4. There's a lot to digest! > Secondly I have switched from groff

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

Michał -- On Wed, Apr 05, 2023, Micha Kruszewski wrote: > I would like to have simple structure: custom cover page -> ToC -> > custom page -> text. No matter how I try always some kind of mess > is generated. I am attaching my "favorite" output so far. If you haven't invested too much in ms,

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

There are so many differences between pdfroff 1.22.4 <-> groff 1.22.4 and between groff 1.22.4 <-> 1.23.0rc3 that I think I am lost. I have started doing small changes. Firstly I have switched from pdfroff 1.22.4 to groff 1.22.4. The layout of the document did not change in case of this switch.

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

At 2023-04-05T14:20:44+, Michał Kruszewski wrote: > > For this, you need the "pdfpagename" macro. > > Where do you get all of this knowledge from? Five or six years of developing groff.  > I use man groff, man groff_ms, man gropdf, google and I do not come > across all of these. No. I

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

> For this, you need the "pdfpagename" macro. Where do you get all of this knowledge from? I use man groff, man groff_ms, man gropdf, google and I do not come across all of these. Using .XN with groff does not include heading numbers in the ToC. With pdfroff heading numbers were included in the

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

I have encountered few problems. 1. .pdfswitchtopage puts ToC always as the first page, and I would like to put it after the cover page. 2. There is a page number shift between the actual page number and the one I need to input into the evince to jump to particular heading. 3. What is the

Re: pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

I use pdfroff only because of 2 reasons. If you know how to do the same with groff I would even prefer to use groff instead: 1. ToC. I haven't managed to generate ToC with groff at the beginning of the document. I do not ask for a lot. Just print me the info about header pages (stdout or file)

pdfroff in groff 1.23.0.rc3 changes compared to 1.22.4

At 2023-04-04T13:48:39+, Michał Kruszewski wrote: > Thanks for you response Branden. > I use ms. Aha, thanks! I started trying to construct a reproducer using mm, then noticed how terrible our description of the "TC" macro in the groff_mm(7) man page is, so I've undertaken to improve it. A