Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-04-18 Thread G. Branden Robinson
[self-follow-up] At 2024-04-18T16:52:49-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > I vaguely recollect that this was solved by putting UARTs with > (bigger) buffers on the motherboard. ...or on a third-party serial card... > And then made more of its own. Hitching their wagon to UTF-16 for > character

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-04-12 Thread James K. Lowden
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 01:27:54 -0500 "G. Branden Robinson" wrote: > Yes, I reckon trapping into the kernel for every byte (or pair of > bytes) written to the screen would indeed have eaten all your > performance, and been pointless when there was no access protection in > any part of the address

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-04-12 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-04-12T01:27:58-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > Why not use one register for the character and one for the attributes? Please disregard that sentence. What I was trying to say was, "why not use one (16-bit) register for the text and attributes instead of the lower 8-bit halves of 2

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-04-11 Thread James K. Lowden
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 22:12:05 -0500 "G. Branden Robinson" wrote: > However, if the user told CONFIG.SYS to load ANSI.SYS, > it would, because that module interposed itself before the BIOS call > that talked to the display, and interpreted them, driving the > CGA/EGA/VGA hardware appropriately.

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-30 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-03-28T05:28:46-0500, Dave Kemper wrote: > On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 1:29 PM G. Branden Robinson > wrote: > > (I've been slowly accumulating evidence that, for basic editing > > operations, vi _really is_ more keystroke-efficient than Emacs, > > Not just in requiring fewer keystrokes, but

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-28 Thread Dave Kemper
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 1:29 PM G. Branden Robinson wrote: > (I've been slowly accumulating evidence that, for basic editing > operations, vi _really is_ more keystroke-efficient than Emacs, Not just in requiring fewer keystrokes, but in the ergonomics of them too: (1) It requires fewer key

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-27 Thread Tadziu Hoffmann
> (I use a bitmap font because it's substantially more readable > for long periods of time than any TrueType font I've found at > equivalent sizes, but using a bitmap font disables some of > xterm's font family support.) The xterm source can be hacked to provide italics using the classic bitmap

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-24 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024, Steve Izma wrote: > Do you remember what the costs of the Linotronic machines would > have been? IIRC, the 202 cost between $40,000 and $60,00 at the end of the eighties. The 300 series ran about $60,000. -- Peter Schaffter https://www.schaffter.ca

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-24 Thread Russ Allbery
"G. Branden Robinson" writes: > It sounds like the way is clear to change perldoc's default back to > Pod::Man plus nroff. ;-) See https://github.com/briandfoy/pod-perldoc/pull/36. It looks like it's being worked on, but there's apparently some complexity downstream of both of us in figuring

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-24 Thread Steve Izma
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 03:39:45PM -0400, Peter Schaffter wrote: > Subject: Re: the Courier font family and nroff history > > On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, Steve Izma wrote: > > I tend to believe that Linotype was the driving force in the > > release of a complete package for

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-24 Thread Peter Schaffter
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024, Steve Izma wrote: > I tend to believe that Linotype was the driving force in the > release of a complete package for corporate typesetters: the > Linotronic 202 (or something like it) driven by Adobe's new > PostScript rasterizer (RIP), using ITC fonts, and with two > choices

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-23 Thread Steve Izma
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 07:13:38PM -0400, James Cloos wrote: > Subject: Re: the Courier font family and nroff history > > So blame Jobs for Courier as the monospace family and for > Times(12) as the serif family. And for Helvetica as the Sans > family. I think we need to rem

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-23 Thread James Cloos
> "GB" == G Branden Robinson writes: GR> I don't think Adobe standardized it GR> for PostScript (and then PDF) for the _sole_ purpose of simulating GR> terminal emulator, or even typewriter, output. As I recall, it has frequently been posted over the years that the selection of fonts which

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-23 Thread Douglas McIlroy
> [looping the groff list back in] Again I got my wires crossed. Thanks. > Do you happen to remember _when_ the CSRC got its 4014? About what > year? Did Joe Ossanna have access to one early enough to use it in aid > of troff development? I think it was about the time of v6, well after the

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-23 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-03-22T21:37:51-0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > "G. Branden Robinson" writes: > > > Okay...by this time groff had for about 10 years been producing > > device-independent _terminal_ output from troff(1). On the other, > > that is its own peculiar little language. Maybe the author just > >

Re: [TUHS] Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-23 Thread G. Branden Robinson
[looping the groff list back in] At 2024-03-23T11:37:51-0400, Douglas McIlroy wrote: > > "BI" fonts can, it seems, largely be traced to the impact > > of PostScript > > There was no room for BI on the C/A/T. It appeared in > troff upon the taming of the Linotron 202, just after v7 > and five

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-22 Thread Russ Allbery
"G. Branden Robinson" writes: > Okay...by this time groff had for about 10 years been producing > device-independent _terminal_ output from troff(1). On the other, that > is its own peculiar little language. Maybe the author just didn't want > to deal with *roff, or didn't want to count on GNU

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-22 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-03-22T22:12:08-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > (Kernighan didn't completely unify terminals under the > device-independent troff scheme presented in CSTR #54 CSTR #97 > --nevertheless its "driving tables" for terminal devices bore a > startling resemblance to "DESC" files for

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-22 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-03-22T17:06:40-0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > "G. Branden Robinson" writes: > > > That's a good argument against grotty(1) emitting overstriking > > sequences, at least by default, and yet that the people swiftest to > > anger on this subject argue _for_ it. > > I'm not fully following

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-22 Thread Dan Plassche
On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 7:07 PM Russ Allbery wrote: > > The stated reason was that the output was device-independent, unlike > output that embeds formatting codes derived from device-specific termcap > entries, and they really liked the bold and underlining rather than the > plain text or *ad

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history

2024-03-22 Thread Russ Allbery
"G. Branden Robinson" writes: > That's a good argument against grotty(1) emitting overstriking > sequences, at least by default, and yet that the people swiftest to > anger on this subject argue _for_ it. I'm not fully following this argument, but (assuming I've not completely lost the train of

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history (was: mandoc(1)'s man pages, groffed, and Project KIC)

2024-03-22 Thread Lennart Jablonka
Quoth G. Branden Robinson: At 2024-03-19T19:59:58+, Lennart Jablonka wrote: Right. We can emulate the nonsense typewriter /emulators/ do. I do think that we shouldn’t do that, either. I would not describe character-cell video terminals as "typewriter emulators" precisely because they

Re: the Courier font family and nroff history (was: mandoc(1)'s man pages, groffed, and Project KIC)

2024-03-22 Thread G. Branden Robinson
[self-correction] At 2024-03-22T13:24:04-0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote: > and video terminals emulated typewriters well enough for unserious > work like formatting man pages on a screen. Err, this is pretty hugely false. They didn't. That's why you had to pipe nroff's output through col(1)

the Courier font family and nroff history (was: mandoc(1)'s man pages, groffed, and Project KIC)

2024-03-22 Thread G. Branden Robinson
At 2024-03-19T18:28:13+, Lennart Jablonka wrote: > Quoth G. Branden Robinson: > > > And the page numbers reset at the start of each section. Which > > > they shouldn’t do—the book is one unit; it should get its own page > > > numbers. And in other books, you don’t usually see page numbers >