Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[Andrea Zagli via gtk-app-devel-list]

Il giorno mer 30 nov 2016 01:08:13 CET, Daniel Kasak ha scritto:


I can confirm both these bugs ( crash copying the treeview, margins
not rendered under altering properties ) under Linux. Actually the top
and bottom margins are rendered immediately, but the left and right
margins need you to alter them before they're rendered correctly.
Sounds like a pretty simple fix for this one. No idea why the treeview
is crashing for you - you've possibly gotten the XML file into an
invalid state that Glade doesn't like. Anyway, you should enter these
in bugzilla :)




https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774993
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774994


for the copy/paste bug i rebuild glade commenting the lines of code  
the make it crash




[...]

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Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[Michael Torrie]

On 11/29/2016 04:28 PM, pozzugno wrote:
> First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through 
> Msys2 project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS.

In my opinion, GTK is definitely more stable under Linux than Windows.
he truth is, 90% of GTK developers (or more) are working on the primary
Linux  X11 and Wayland backends.  The Windows backend does see work from
time to time, but from what I can tell it lags somewhat.

However I can confirm your margin issues are definitely bugs:
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744095
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741270

I guess the problem really is that the property name for the margins has
changed from left and right to start and end, which is what the initial
renderer is expecting.  But somehow one part of glade hasn't caught up
to the other part.  I don't know when you can expect this bug to be
fixed.  Volunteer developers don't always fix bugs.

I don't think your workflow is wrong, though I can't speak to the
treeview thing.  Glade 3.x does seem buggy, especially compared to
Glade-3 for GTK2 which I never had any problems with.
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Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[Daniel Kasak]

I can confirm both these bugs ( crash copying the treeview, margins
not rendered under altering properties ) under Linux. Actually the top
and bottom margins are rendered immediately, but the left and right
margins need you to alter them before they're rendered correctly.
Sounds like a pretty simple fix for this one. No idea why the treeview
is crashing for you - you've possibly gotten the XML file into an
invalid state that Glade doesn't like. Anyway, you should enter these
in bugzilla :)

I don't drag + drop either - I just cut/copy/paste things around.

Re: the treeview being rendered with 0 space ... you can set it to
'expand' and it should take up some space ... either that or set a
minimum width.

My normal workflow is to lay things out *roughly* in glade, then
actually run the app and see what it looks like. This is partly
because I'm writing database apps and generating lots of content based
on dynamic data. It really doesn't take long to switch back to glade,
tweak things, then re-open the app ( or window ) and see the results.

Dan

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:28 AM, pozzugno  wrote:
> First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through Msys2
> project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS.
>
> When I open a file, non-null margins aren't rendered correctly. Take a look
> at the screencast [1]. As soon as I change one margin (from 10 to 11, for
> example), it is rendered correctly.
>
> Another problem, is very difficult to drag one or more widgets (under a
> sub-tree) between two places. When I click on a widget (or container) and
> start moving, the mouse pointer disappears at all, so the target place is
> very difficult to find (see [2]). During dragging movement, something
> appears at the top-left corner of the window.
>
> It is very simple to have a crash when working with Treeviews. Open the
> attached file, select the Treeview, press Ctrl+C (or select Copy) and...
> puff! Other times Glade crashes when I try to create a column in the
> Treeview.
>
> When I copy a box filled with widgets from one container to another
> container, it seems the margins value aren't copied. I don't know if there
> are other parameters that aren't copied.
>
> Daniel, you wrote you don't populate liststore associated to treeviews. I
> agree with you, but if you don't populate the associated liststore (at list
> the columns description), the treeview is rendered with zero space. Even if
> you add columns in the treeview, you need to associated a compatible
> liststore to see the real effect.
>
> Those are bugs related strictly to Glade, so this post could be off-topic
> for this mailing list. However my goal wasn't to list all the bugs I found
> in Glade, but to understand if my Gtk/Glade workflow/setup is wrong someway.
>
>
> [1]
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing
> [2]
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing
>
>
>
> Il 29/11/2016 23:08, Daniel Kasak ha scritto:
>>
>> Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20
>> seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all,
>> so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them
>> dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really
>> have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around
>> freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps
>> over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most
>> recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen
>> and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your
>> issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz  wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI
>>> framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the
>>> associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all.
>>>
>>> Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I
>>> can't
>>> press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place.
>>> The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the
>>> file.
>>> It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one
>>> box element to a grid element).
>>>
>>> I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort
>>> for
>>> me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them.
>>>
>>> How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write
>>> it directly in code?
>>>
>>> IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT
>>> libraries, even if I loose many working days.
>>> ___
>>> gtk-app-devel-list mailing list
>>> gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org
>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
>
>
>

Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[pozzugno]

First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through 
Msys2 project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS.


When I open a file, non-null margins aren't rendered correctly. Take a 
look at the screencast [1]. As soon as I change one margin (from 10 to 
11, for example), it is rendered correctly.


Another problem, is very difficult to drag one or more widgets 
(under a sub-tree) between two places. When I click on a widget (or 
container) and start moving, the mouse pointer disappears at all, so the 
target place is very difficult to find (see [2]). During dragging 
movement, something appears at the top-left corner of the window.


It is very simple to have a crash when working with Treeviews. Open the 
attached file, select the Treeview, press Ctrl+C (or select Copy) and... 
puff! Other times Glade crashes when I try to create a column in the 
Treeview.


When I copy a box filled with widgets from one container to another 
container, it seems the margins value aren't copied. I don't know if 
there are other parameters that aren't copied.


Daniel, you wrote you don't populate liststore associated to treeviews. 
I agree with you, but if you don't populate the associated liststore (at 
list the columns description), the treeview is rendered with zero space. 
Even if you add columns in the treeview, you need to associated a 
compatible liststore to see the real effect.


Those are bugs related strictly to Glade, so this post could be 
off-topic for this mailing list. However my goal wasn't to list all the 
bugs I found in Glade, but to understand if my Gtk/Glade workflow/setup 
is wrong someway.



[1] 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing
[2] 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing



Il 29/11/2016 23:08, Daniel Kasak ha scritto:

Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20
seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all,
so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them
dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really
have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around
freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps
over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most
recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen
and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your
issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong.

Dan

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz  wrote:

I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI
framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the
associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all.

Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't
press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place.
The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the
file.
It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one
box element to a grid element).

I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for
me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them.

How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write
it directly in code?

IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT
libraries, even if I loose many working days.
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Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[Daniel Kasak]

Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20
seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all,
so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them
dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really
have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around
freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps
over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most
recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen
and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your
issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong.

Dan

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz  wrote:
> I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI
> framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the
> associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all.
>
> Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't
> press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place.
> The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the
> file.
> It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one
> box element to a grid element).
>
> I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for
> me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them.
>
> How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write
> it directly in code?
>
> IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT
> libraries, even if I loose many working days.
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> gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org
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Re: Debugging propagated events

[zahlenmeer]

I added some logic and after that I got a warning that there is a
mismatch between cairo_save and cairo_restore. So I fixed that and I got
it working. The cairo logic was faulty all the time but only some new
lines of code triggered that warning.
So I guess I was just lucky that I stopped debugging for a moment and
added those few lines.

On 11/29/16 03:13, Jim Charlton wrote:
> In Gtkmm (C++) you can overload the on_draw() function with your own. 
> This might give you a foothold in the on_draw() routine that is called
> after a redraw event occurs.  I guess in GTK you would have to connect a
> callback function to the "draw" signal.  Might help.??
> 
> jim...
> 
> 
> On 2016-11-28 04:50 PM, zahlenm...@gmx.de wrote:
>> This was one of the first things I did. Debug compilation option, debug
>> CFLAGS, no stripping - without a change. The backtrace only shows 3
>> lines, my draw function and two from libc.
>> The faulty address is not null. But the segfault happens after the
>> return where all local variables are no longer in scope, and the
>> addresses of the widget and the cairo context are valid.
>>
>> On 11/29/16 00:44, Alfonso Arbona Gimeno wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Why don't you link against the debug version of the library so that it
>>> shows you the complete stack?
>>> It will give you some extra clues on why the segfault is happening.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Alfonso Arbona
>>>
>>> On November 29, 2016 6:17:05 AM GMT+09:00, zahlenm...@gmx.de wrote:
>>>
>>>  For a custom widget I have a draw function. I do some drawing
>>> there and
>>>  when I am finished I return FALSE to let the parent draw.
>>> Immediately
>>>  after the return statement I get a segfault. gdb's backtrace
>>> only shows
>>>  my draw function and an address I cannot associate to any object.
>>>  Are there some general tricks how to debug such errors?
>>>
>>>  Kind regards
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  gtk-app-devel-list mailing list
>>>  gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org
>>>  https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
>>>
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> 
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The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder

[Pozz Pozz]

I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI
framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the
associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all.

Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't
press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place.
The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the
file.
It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one
box element to a grid element).

I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for
me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them.

How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write
it directly in code?

IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT
libraries, even if I loose many working days.
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Re: GTK+ with Broadway

[Daniel Kasak]

Unfortunately, no there is no way to do this. *If* copy + paste were
implemented between a broadway app and the browser, then you could at
least push a link to a file to download into the browser, and the user
could copy it and paste it into a new tab. Anyway, copy + paste is not
implemented yet ( Hi devs ... if this is easy, it would be pretty
damned handy ).

I haven't had to do anything like this yet, but if I had to tomorrow,
I'd get users to enter an email address in a config screen, and I'd
email documents or links to downloads to them. Not ideal, I know.

Dan

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Igor D  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working with GTK+ via Broadway.
> I need to upload and save some file on local computer (which run browser).
> Can I do in this mode that and how ?
>
> Thanks,
> Igor
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Igor D  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dan,
>>
>> I don't need real time graphing or something like that. It should work
>> only after triggers from user.
>>
>> I don't remember exactly which feature was missed. I'll recheck.
>>
>> Your inputs are optimistic :-)
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the help.
>> Igor
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kasak 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Igor D  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for prompt reply.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, I have couple of specific concerns:
>>> > 1. Performance. I'm not looking for something special but expect
>>> > something
>>> > reasonable. My few experiments show
>>> > that performance may be too low.
>>>
>>> I haven't seen bad performance in terms of user experience, though I
>>> have noticed high CPU usage in the broadwayd process(es). My very
>>> rough guess is that you can support somewhere between 2-3 times the
>>> number of active users as CPU cores on your system before users start
>>> to notice. I've never done any stress-testing to see what exactly
>>> would happened if you pushed this limit. I guess if you're trying to
>>> deliver to more users than this model supports, you're entering "real"
>>> web-app development. Out of interest, what kind of applications are
>>> you considering distributing?
>>>
>>> It will depend a lot on what your app is doing I guess. Real-time
>>> graphing or apps where there is constant rendering happening ( eg text
>>> flying past in a log viewer ) will consume a lot more CPU than an app
>>> that sits still and waits for a user to do something.
>>>
>>> I've also noticed that broadway gives a much better experience than
>>> VNC. VNC is laggy and has rendering glitches. Broadway is pretty
>>> impressive under conditions where VNC degrades badly.
>>>
>>> > 2. Reduced feature set, comparing to GTK without broadway. I found few
>>> > minor
>>> > differences but this makes me afraid that it might be more.
>>>
>>> I haven't noticed any reduced features at all. You may have to set
>>> some environment variables to activate things like gtk+ themes and
>>> icon packs, but I haven't found anything with broadway that doesn't
>>> work as I expect from a regular X11 experience. What differences have
>>> you seen? If it's just things like icon packs, it might be worth
>>> documenting what's needed to get on-par with X11.
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Igor
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Daniel Kasak 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I've been using it on+off for a couple of years. As far as widget
>>> >> toolkit functionality goes, it's a stable platform for me. Security is
>>> >> not handled by broadway, except for basic password authentication ( 1
>>> >> password per linux user who runs broadway apps ). I posted on this
>>> >> topic a little while back:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://tesla.duckdns.org/transparent-proxy-for-broadway-gtk3-html5-backend/
>>> >>
>>> >> Are you after some info in particular?
>>> >>
>>> >> Dan
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Igor D  wrote:
>>> >> > Hi,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I wonder if someone have practical experience with GTK+ with
>>> >> > Broadway.
>>> >> > I'll be glad to have feedback.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks
>>> >> > Igor
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ___
>>> >> > gtk-list mailing list
>>> >> > gtk-list@gnome.org
>>> >> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: What class with signals capabilities?

[Paul Davis]

You may to inherit from sigc::trackable if you want to be able to connect
to a signal and disconnect from it automatically in the destructor.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Chris Vine 
wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 23:16:15 +0100
> Krzysztof  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to make a class with signaling capabilities (receiving and
> > emitting signals) under gtkmm. What class is the best to derive from?
> > Gio::SimpleActionGroup or something else?
>
> Do you need derivation?  Can you just include a sigc::signal object as
> a class member?
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Re: GTK+ with Broadway

[Igor D]

Hi,

I'm working with GTK+ via Broadway.
I need to upload and save some file on local computer (which run browser).
Can I do in this mode that and how ?

Thanks,
Igor

On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Igor D  wrote:

> Hi Dan,
>
> I don't need real time graphing or something like that. It should work
> only after triggers from user.
>
> I don't remember exactly which feature was missed. I'll recheck.
>
> Your inputs are optimistic :-)
>
> Thanks a lot for the help.
> Igor
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Kasak 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Igor D  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Thanks for prompt reply.
>> >
>> > Yes, I have couple of specific concerns:
>> > 1. Performance. I'm not looking for something special but expect
>> something
>> > reasonable. My few experiments show
>> > that performance may be too low.
>>
>> I haven't seen bad performance in terms of user experience, though I
>> have noticed high CPU usage in the broadwayd process(es). My very
>> rough guess is that you can support somewhere between 2-3 times the
>> number of active users as CPU cores on your system before users start
>> to notice. I've never done any stress-testing to see what exactly
>> would happened if you pushed this limit. I guess if you're trying to
>> deliver to more users than this model supports, you're entering "real"
>> web-app development. Out of interest, what kind of applications are
>> you considering distributing?
>>
>> It will depend a lot on what your app is doing I guess. Real-time
>> graphing or apps where there is constant rendering happening ( eg text
>> flying past in a log viewer ) will consume a lot more CPU than an app
>> that sits still and waits for a user to do something.
>>
>> I've also noticed that broadway gives a much better experience than
>> VNC. VNC is laggy and has rendering glitches. Broadway is pretty
>> impressive under conditions where VNC degrades badly.
>>
>> > 2. Reduced feature set, comparing to GTK without broadway. I found few
>> minor
>> > differences but this makes me afraid that it might be more.
>>
>> I haven't noticed any reduced features at all. You may have to set
>> some environment variables to activate things like gtk+ themes and
>> icon packs, but I haven't found anything with broadway that doesn't
>> work as I expect from a regular X11 experience. What differences have
>> you seen? If it's just things like icon packs, it might be worth
>> documenting what's needed to get on-par with X11.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Igor
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Daniel Kasak 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I've been using it on+off for a couple of years. As far as widget
>> >> toolkit functionality goes, it's a stable platform for me. Security is
>> >> not handled by broadway, except for basic password authentication ( 1
>> >> password per linux user who runs broadway apps ). I posted on this
>> >> topic a little while back:
>> >>
>> >> http://tesla.duckdns.org/transparent-proxy-for-broadway-
>> gtk3-html5-backend/
>> >>
>> >> Are you after some info in particular?
>> >>
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 5:49 AM, Igor D  wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > I wonder if someone have practical experience with GTK+ with
>> Broadway.
>> >> > I'll be glad to have feedback.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks
>> >> > Igor
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
>> >> > gtk-list mailing list
>> >> > gtk-list@gnome.org
>> >> > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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