Re: Support service

2022-02-16 Thread aitor

Hi,

On 16/2/22 13:00, Kjell Ahlstedt  wrote:


I suspect that it's not trivial. You can try to ask the
GTK developers onhttps://discourse.gnome.org/c/platform/core. Gtkmm is
just a C++ wrapper around most of GTK.


I should ask you to improve the support.

This is free and open software. You don't pay. No one is responsible for
any support. Users of gtkmm can help each other. One user can answer
another user's questions.


I've built my way most of the examples of the gtkmm programming tutorial,
and all of them worked for me. But the drug and drop example isn't in the
list so far. On the other hand, I admit that I didn't give a try to gtk4
because the existing .deb packages are still in the unstable repository
of debian (sid). Hence, I'll need to upgrade my system or build my own images
of the unstable/testing branch. Once I have done this, I'll try to get the
DnD example working. I hope that it'll be within a few days.

Cheers,

Aitor.

 

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Re: Support service

2022-02-15 Thread Kjell Ahlstedt via gtkmm-list

Den 2022-02-14 kl. 20:50, skrev David Gasa i Castell via gtkmm-list:


I'd like to know, if possible, why some of my questions (and other 
users' as well), if so, are not properly answered and how to solve it.


Not enough people are working with gtkmm and the other *mm modules 
(glibmm, etc.). When I started contributing to these modules more than 
10 years ago, there were several other regular contributors. See also 
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtkmm-list/2021-February/msg3.html.


I did not give you a useful answer when you asked about drag&drop in a 
Gtk::ListView, simply because I don't know how to do it. There are 
several examples with GtkListView among gtk's demo programs, but none of 
them does DnD. I suspect that it's not trivial. You can try to ask the 
GTK developers on https://discourse.gnome.org/c/platform/core. Gtkmm is 
just a C++ wrapper around most of GTK.




I should ask you to improve the support.
This is free and open software. You don't pay. No one is responsible for 
any support. Users of gtkmm can help each other. One user can answer 
another user's questions.


Is it possible to create a payment subscription quotes or on demand 
service in order to receive assistance ?


No


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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread David Gasa i Castell via gtkmm-list
Discussions are, of course, always welcome but bear in mind that

a) The message was sent directly to the project team (I mean, to Mr. M.
Cumming, Mr. D. Elstner, Mr. K. Ahlsted, and so on...) with the hope that
they will carefully study my suggestion.

b) The message was not intended to open a debate about Free Software
project lists & support in general; but a suggestion made in the context of
Gtkmm community.

The project team is probably very busy and cannot help me for free. In this
case, I understand and I agree to help them but not necessarily out of the
context of the same messages list (or maybe in a parallel Gtkmm HowTo
blog), and to remain as cheaper as possible.

The idea behind is to learn how to use Gtkmm, not to ask others to develop
projects.

-- 
David Gasa i Castell
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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 20:18 +, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
> 
> Well I think it's a bit of both, in practice. I doubt every
> contributor to gtkmm is paid to do so.
> 

A bit OT; but yes I agree in principle. There's a whole philosophy of
foss responsibility which basically boils down to: If you're doing work
for other people, then you SHOULD be paid. if you're doing work for
yourself (training, fun, volunteering for the good of humanity etc)
then you've got more reason to do stuff for free, although I think
unpaid volunteers can find themselves in a responsibility trap that
creates a very real labour rights issue. Although some disagree that
labour issues are possible in Free and Open Source, I say there are
many forces both social and political that keep people working against
their own labour interests.

Remember kids; if a company asks you to fix their problems without
paying you. Just say no.

Martin,

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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread Jonathan Wakely via gtkmm-list
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 at 20:17, Martin Owens  wrote:

> On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 20:08 +, Jonathan Wakely via gtkmm-list
> wrote:
> > People work on them for free,
>
> No, 😉 people work on them for lots of money; they distribute them for
> free.
>

Well I think it's a bit of both, in practice. I doubt every contributor to
gtkmm is paid to do so.
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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 20:08 +, Jonathan Wakely via gtkmm-list
wrote:
> People work on them for free,

No, 😉 people work on them for lots of money; they distribute them for
free.

Free Software is not free from cost. Although I think you already know
this, so I'm just griping about the terminology. 😃

Martin,

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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread Jonathan Wakely via gtkmm-list
On Mon, 14 Feb 2022, 19:50 David Gasa i Castell via gtkmm-list, <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Dear project team,
>
> I write you to say that it doesn't work.
>

This is a useless statement. Nobody can help something so vague, what does
"doesn't work" mean?


> I've been using Gtkmm libraries since 2.x (even if some refactorings and
> changes were made thereafter) but I still need your help.
>
> Having a reference helps but it's not enough.
>
> When I submitted questions directly to the project programmers, they
> pointed me to submit in a list...
>

That's how open source projects usually work. People work on them for free,
but they don't want strangers contacting them directly expecting support.
The mailing list is the right way to seek help.



but a list that nobody has the responsibility to answer in an appropriate
> manner... does not help, either. Silence does not help.
>
> I'd like to know, if possible, why some of my questions (and other users'
> as well), if so, are not properly answered and how to solve it.
>

Make sure you are asking good questions.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


> I should ask you to improve the support.
>
> Is it possible to create a payment subscription quotes or on demand
> service in order to receive assistance ?
>

It took me less than ten seconds to find this page:

https://gtkmm.org/en/commercial_support.html
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Re: Support service

2022-02-14 Thread Martin Owens
On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 20:50 +0100, David Gasa i Castell via gtkmm-list
wrote:
> I'd like to know, if possible, why some of my questions (and other
> users' as well), if so, are not properly answered and how to solve
> it.

In general, open source projects are not responsible for supporting
users of their software. All projects have their own particular culture
and some projects operate as charities with kind volunteer work that
can help some users.

Ultimate freedom comes with ultimate self-responsible. 🙂

> Is it possible to create a payment subscription quotes or on demand
> service in order to receive assistance ?

This is the correct question. Although it is a bit misdirected. Some
project's will have people in them that you can hire, or contract. not
all projects keep lists of such people. Sometimes you can just go to a
bigger company like "Collabra" or "Red Hat" and consult with them
directly. Although don't expect it to be cheap.

My personal view is that mailing lists like this one are more internal
to the project than external services. But I'm not an active member of
the internal gtkmm project, just a fellow user of gtkmm.

Good luck!

Best Regards, Martin Owens
From the Inkscape Project

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