Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
The government does good things and bad things. Requiring that everyone have special insurance for any activity that they do, makes no sense. It makes a lot of sense if you are an insurance company and you have the lobbying power to get politicians to see things your way! They very much know that riders are no greater a risk so they will be glad to have us legislatively be forced to pay insurance premiums. It all makes a great deal of economic sensefor them. Also, found out today that Blue Cross Blue Shield is THE ONLY insurance company in my area that "IS ALLOWED BY LAW" to cover our company's and other companies I suspect medical needs. How's that for monopoly! I hate to admit it but Hillary's sounding better all of a sudden, so as to put a leash on these thieves. George believes in absolute self-determination and unlimited independence but always with personal responsibility. PS Still waiting on my BT57 after 10 days, you can tell it's beginning to piss me off. _ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
Just think of it as the gene pool taking care of itself :) I actually get a good laugh when I hear a story like this. On 12 Jun 2000, at 21:41, SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: I know I'm opening up a Pandora's box here folks...fact of the matter is I don't give crap after my technician had the following experience in Chicago on Friday. He's sitting at a stop light..a MORON pulls up next to his car...sitting on a Kaw 1100 or something like that. Illinois happens to be one of these...no helmet required states Light turns green...he pulls away wide open...power shifts into second...pops a wheeling into secondright back on top of himself...right in front of my tech. This jerk was wearing sneakers and a pair of jeans...that's it folksJim rode by in his car...didn't bother stopping (lots of folks around) cause there wasn't much left of the guys back or head I'm all in favor of Helmetless riders...so long as they agree to sign away their rights to state provided healthcare. Than way when they pull stupid stunts like this we don't support the vegetative state. I'm bothered by the image...my tech has lost sleep over this guys stupidity. My soapboxranting for a reason...just understand my concerns...but you're free to disagree Shawn P
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I disagree and side with the AMA in saying everyone should be allowed to be stupid if they are only injuring themselves. I'm throwing in with Louis on this one. The insurance thing is a slippery slope down which we do not want to Me too. Motorcyclists should no more be expected to carry additional insurance than anyone else, as the evidence indicates we are no more or less likely to have medical insurance than anyone else. Also, depending on whose statistics you read/believe riders may actually spend somewhat less time in hospitals/other care facilities than other classes of motor-injured individuals. The government does good things and bad things. Requiring that everyone have special insurance for any activity that they do, makes no sense. The only way to avoid all risk is to be dead, and right now I prefer life, even with its risks. Regards, Henry S. Winokur 94 GTS1000, AMA, MRF, MD/MSF Certified Instructor West Bethesda, MD
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
re-read what you quoted. How about this: a helmet may save as many stupid riders (squid boy flip his GS1100) from dying as they do save inteligent riders from becoming vegetables. This was my interpretation anyway. Louis What kind of logic is that, Kev? So all those riders saved from becoming veggies by their helmets (I count me as one of them) are not worth saving because of the burdon of all those that are consequently saved from death but become veggies??? .. so it follows that they may save as many vegetables from dying as they save riders from becoming vegetables...
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
--- "Loss, Joe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What kind of logic is that, Kev? So all those riders saved from becoming veggies by their helmets (I count me as one of them) are not worth saving because of the burdon of all those that are consequently saved from death but become veggies??? Joe. From the context of the burden on society, not an individual's worth. I'm not saying you are worth less--just the same--I'm counting all people as equally valuable (even though GTS rider's are inherently more intelligent, and thus worth more intrinsically, yada, yada). I'm saying the NUMBERS seem to cancel out! My premise is that EVERYONE is worth saving, and worth being saved by their choice of appropriate gear. For me, this includes a helmet, and it did save me once. I'm just trying to understand the data that does not seem to clearly indicate helmets are better all the time no matter what, which was my initial intuition before I started paying attention to what little info there is. FL Kev __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com
RE: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
The idea of insurance is that we all put in our money and then we all get to do more or less what we want, knowing that if we have accidents our medical bills are covered. It doesn't mean that we all have to do the same things. If we start trying to pick and choose who is covered, the system won't work. I'm willing to cover someone who does rock climbing, because they cover me while I ride my bike. Is rock climbing stupid risk-taking? It seems so to me, but that's the rock climber's business. I do wear a helmet, and I think it's dumb not to, and I even favor laws that require kids to wear them (against peer pressure). But the reason isn't financial, it's because I hate to see people leave their brains on the road. Gil H.
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I am pro-choice on this issue. I believe we should have the choice to wear a helmet or not. I do think that it is wise to have minors be forced into wearing helmets. I hate being legislated to be safe. I do think that the insurance writers are trying to get the laws written to make accidents more survivable. I believe the emphasis should be on accident avoidance, rather than survivability. Louis P.S. I also believe strongly against driving after drinking/drug use. If a person is found to be DUI they should loose their lisence, right then, right there. Taxi cab home, tow the vehicle. No tolerance. Just my opinion. P.P.S. Why is it that we are required to wear a helmet when we ride motorcycles and bicycles, but not if we ride a moped? Why when we ride an ATV, mountain bike, or dirt bike; but not when someone rides a horse? Gil Hillman wrote: The idea of insurance is that we all put in our money and then we all get to do more or less what we want, knowing that if we have accidents our medical bills are covered. It doesn't mean that we all have to do the same things. If we start trying to pick and choose who is covered, the system won't work. I'm willing to cover someone who does rock climbing, because they cover me while I ride my bike. Is rock climbing stupid risk-taking? It seems so to me, but that's the rock climber's business. I do wear a helmet, and I think it's dumb not to, and I even favor laws that require kids to wear them (against peer pressure). But the reason isn't financial, it's because I hate to see people leave their brains on the road. Gil H.
Re: Helmets are for Intelligent Riders
I disagree and side with the AMA in saying everyone should be allowed to be stupid if they are only injuring themselves. I do not believe that the rider you speak of cost more to the public than any car accident. I don't believe that we should have special insurance requirements to ride a motorcycle. We all know that the insurance companies are righting the laws, how much more does it take to say we should be forced to carry special insurance to ride a motorcycle even if we are riding a Goldwing and wearing race leathers?? How about another option? Force manufactures to be accountable for their actions, like making it easy to purchase a motorcycle -say a Hayabusa- that reaches 188 mph with no modifications. I don't like the implications of any of these laws. I have serious concerns about the USA becoming over legislated. Pardon my terms, but fuck the government. I am not saying I have the answers to these concerns, and I definitely am not the eloquent speaker required to voice the concerns, but something needs to be done. Much like your views that the government should protect the forests from the US citizens who ride OHV's I also disagree with your views that the US citizens should be protected from the squid/gangster who chooses to be reckless whether they wear a helmet or not (since they can still be killed with or without a helmet.) Sorry for the Rant, Louis SHAWN PEARSALL wrote: I know I'm opening up a Pandora's box here folks...fact of the matter is I don't give crap after my technician had the following experience in Chicago on Friday. He's sitting at a stop light..a MORON pulls up next to his car...sitting on a Kaw 1100 or something like that. Illinois happens to be one of these...no helmet required states Light turns green...he pulls away wide open...power shifts into second...pops a wheeling into secondright back on top of himself...right in front of my tech. This jerk was wearing sneakers and a pair of jeans...that's it folksJim rode by in his car...didn't bother stopping (lots of folks around) cause there wasn't much left of the guys back or head I'm all in favor of Helmetless riders...so long as they agree to sign away their rights to state provided healthcare. Than way when they pull stupid stunts like this we don't support the vegetative state. I'm bothered by the image...my tech has lost sleep over this guys stupidity. My soapboxranting for a reason...just understand my concerns...but you're free to disagree Shawn P
