Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide


Thomas Morley  writes:

>> Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
>> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.)
>
> Well, you forgot LilyPond

The one tool that uses Guile while dominating its domain.

> Well, for me, Guile's _the_ extension language for my LilyPond.
>
> It may be more, it may have become more.
> And yes, I used Guile for some other stuff as well.
> Nevertheless, it remains the language to extend LilyPond.
>
> It feels very strange dropping said phrase.

Same for me. That Guile takes effort to make extending easy
distinguishes Guile from all the just-scripting languages out there, and
also from many other Schemes.

Actually I’d love to see Guile become better at this: to make it easier
to deploy an application that uses Guile in a statically compiled
binary.

Basically to generalize what LilyPond is doing.

Best wishes,
Arne
--
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken



Re: debug enable seems broken in 3.0

2020-01-18 Thread dsmich
From: "Linus Björnstam" 
* 

> There is no 'debug options, as the error says. Read more here:
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Debug-Options.html
[1]

 

Links:
--
[1]
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Debug-Options.html#index-debug_002denable

Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Thomas Morley
Am Sa., 18. Jan. 2020 um 15:14 Uhr schrieb Ludovic Courtès :
>
> Hello Guilers!
>
> The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
> came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
> way I see Guile.
>
> Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
> libguile is here to stay.

Well, you forgot LilyPond

> Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
> accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
> doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
> more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.
>
> Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
> what Guile is to me is:
>
>   GNU, fast, fun, functional
>
> What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)
>
> Ludo’.

Well, for me, Guile's _the_ extension language for my LilyPond.

It may be more, it may have become more.
And yes, I used Guile for some other stuff as well.
Nevertheless, it remains the language to extend LilyPond.

It feels very strange dropping said phrase.


Cheers,
  Harm



Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Arne Babenhauserheide


Ludovic Courtès  writes:

> Hello Guilers!
>
> The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
> came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
> way I see Guile.
What do you mean about the logo? Do you mean tagline? Where I see a
tagline is at the website: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/

As one point of several we have there:
"Guile is an extension language platform
 …
 Guile is the GNU Ubiquitous Intelligent Language for Extensions, and
 the official extension language of the GNU project."

That’s an important statement, one which brought me to Guile, because
this gives Guile purpose beyond only being a useful language. It is the
language to extend GNU programs.

But aside from this, the website also says:
- Guile is a programming language -> create applications (this is what it 
starts with!)
- Extend applications (which actually talks about implementing languages in 
Guile)
- Guile empowers users with "practical software freedom"

The Reference manual says
"GNU's Programming and Extension Language"
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/static/base/img/covers/guile-reference.png

So the material already states clearly that Guile is not only for extension.

However that extending applications is part of the story is an important
point for me: This also implies that it’s easy to move parts of my
application into the fastest language I can find.

It’s unlikely that Guile will beat C for raw performance *and* memory
requirements for the most performance-critical part of an application,
so knowing that I can shift that part into C (or C++ or Rust or anything
else with C-bindings) is an important point.

Being able to easily embed Guile in a C++ application is a
distinguishing feature compared to Python. That way Guile strikes a
middle-point between Python and Lua.

Also I would love to have a way to script a Godot-game with Guile:
https://godotengine.org/

> Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
> what Guile is to me is:
>
>   GNU, fast, fun, functional
>
> What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)

It is the language where I can best experiment with pushing the
boundaries of programming without having to write my own compiler.

Best wishes,
Arne
--
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein
ohne es zu merken



Re: GNU Guile 2.9.8 Released [beta]

2020-01-18 Thread Nala Ginrut
Just a report, the same compiling error existing in Guile-3.0.0.

Best regards.


On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 4:49 PM Nala Ginrut  wrote:

> Hi Wingo!
> Here're update:
> 1. 2.9.9 didn't fix this issue
>
> 2. I imported r6rs record-type in (artanis utils), and this module was
> imported in almost every artanis modules.
> I do use r6rs specific record API to introspect the internal things for
> debugging in Artanis.
> And I imported r6rs define-record-type in server-context.scm
> I guess there're some name conflicting.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 6:33 PM Andy Wingo  wrote:
>
>> On Wed 08 Jan 2020 15:22, Nala Ginrut  writes:
>>
>> > In unknown file:
>> >4 (primitive-load-path "artanis/server/server-context" #<…>)
>> > In ice-9/eval.scm:
>> >626:19  3 (_ #)
>> > 155:9  2 (_ #)
>> > In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
>> >   1153:19  1 (_ _ _ _ _ _ _)
>> >   1655:16  0 (raise-exception _ #:continuable? _)
>> >
>> > ice-9/boot-9.scm:1655:16: In procedure raise-exception:
>> > Wrong number of arguments to #> ice-9/boot-9.scm:1153:19 (a b c d e f)>
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> > Any hint that I can figure out whait's incompatible?
>>
>> Gosh we need to improve this info.  Anyway the procedure at
>> boot-9.scm:1153:19 is a record constructor, for a record with 6 fields.
>> Apparently somewhere in (artanis server server-context) is calling it
>> with the wrong number of arguments.  What do you use for records?  Do
>> you have your own abstraction or do you use R6RS records or something?
>> Perhaps something in artanis relied on the way that R6RS records used to
>> implement single inheritance, as a chain of objects instead of a flat
>> record.  Or perhaps the adaptations to R6RS records in Guile introduced
>> a bug.  I am interested to know the answer :)
>>
>> Andy
>>
>


Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Nala Ginrut
On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:14 PM Ludovic Courtès  wrote:

> Hello Guilers!
>

Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
> libguile is here to stay.  Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
> accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
> doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
> more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.
>
>
That's true, "GNU extension language" is just part of its features right
now.
And the "extension language" can't define Guile anymore, because Guile is a
productive implementation of Scheme programming language,
a web development language, a system level scripting language, and a
platform to support several different dynamic languages.



> Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
> what Guile is to me is:
>
>   GNU, fast, fun, functional
>
>
Although functional is just one of facinating features of Guile Scheme,
it's still a good selling point to introduce it to other people.



> What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)
>
>
Guile is a modern Scheme implementation that can solve real problems in the
industry. There's a joke that Scheme is the only language that the number
of implementations
are more than the users. But I would say, Guile can help people to solve
real program in product level.
And as some people here may know, I've been always a big fan to treat Guile
as a platform for various language transpilers.
I don't know what's the proper slogan now, to me, Guile is more like a
hacking engine rather than a language.

Best regards.


Re: debug enable seems broken in 3.0

2020-01-18 Thread Linus Björnstam


There is no 'debug options, as the error says. Read more here: 
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Debug-Options.html#index-debug_002denable
-- 
  Linus Björnstam

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, at 19:45, dsm...@roadrunner.com wrote:
> This ought to work, right?
> 
> From a fresh 3.0 install from tarball on Debian Buster:
> 
> $ guile
> 
> GNU Guile 3.0.0
> 
> Copyright (C) 1995-2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> Guile comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `,show w'.
> 
> This program is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> 
> under certain conditions; type `,show c' for details.
> 
> 
> 
> Enter `,help' for help.
> 
> scheme@(guile-user)> (debug-enable 'debug)
> 
> ice-9/boot-9.scm:1669:16: In procedure raise-exception:
> 
> In procedure debug-options-interface: Unknown option name: debug
> 
> 
> 
> Entering a new prompt. Type `,bt' for a backtrace or `,q' to continue.
> 
> scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,bt
> 
> In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
> 
>  3609:0 2 (debug-enable . _)
> 
> In unknown file:
> 
>  1 (debug-options-interface (debug show-file-name #t # # …))
> 
> In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
> 
>  1669:16 0 (raise-exception _ #:continuable? _)
> 
> scheme@(guile-user) [1]> 
> 
> 
>



debug enable seems broken in 3.0

2020-01-18 Thread dsmich


This ought to work, right?

From a fresh 3.0 install from tarball on Debian Buster:

$ guile

GNU Guile 3.0.0

Copyright (C) 1995-2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

Guile comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `,show w'.

This program is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it

under certain conditions; type `,show c' for details.

Enter `,help' for help.

scheme@(guile-user)> (debug-enable 'debug)

ice-9/boot-9.scm:1669:16: In procedure raise-exception:

In procedure debug-options-interface: Unknown option name: debug

Entering a new prompt. Type `,bt' for a backtrace or `,q' to
continue.

scheme@(guile-user) [1]> ,bt

In ice-9/boot-9.scm:

 3609:0 2 (debug-enable . _)

In unknown file:

 1 (debug-options-interface (debug show-file-name #t # # …))

In ice-9/boot-9.scm:

 1669:16 0 (raise-exception _ #:continuable? _)

scheme@(guile-user) [1]> 




Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Matt Wette

On 1/18/20 6:08 AM, Ludovic Courtès wrote:

Hello Guilers!

The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
way I see Guile.

Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
libguile is here to stay.  Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.

Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
what Guile is to me is:

   GNU, fast, fun, functional

What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)

Ludo’.

To me "fast, fun, functional" does not distinguish guile very much.

I'll throw this out, though I don't think this is that good either:

Guile is GNU's functional, high-performance, systems programming 
implementation.


FWIW, I still look to guile for tool extension and integration.

Matt




Re: Better HTTPS support in (web client)

2020-01-18 Thread Amirouche Boubekki
Le ven. 10 janv. 2020 à 16:56, Chris Vine  a écrit :
>
> Is the new implementation usable with suspendable ports?  When I last
> looked the read-response-body procedure was not, which meant that
> http-get and http-put were not, which meant that you could not really
> use them with fibers.

Is that because of get-bytevector-all is coded in C?



Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Linus Björnstam
Fun I can agree with! It is what made me stick with Guile in the first place.

GNU as an adjective seems odd: I think that can better be conveyed as a part of 
the name "GNU Guile". It is and, if I have understood the discussions going on 
here, will continue to be a GNU project. Maybe treat fun as a noun: GNU Guile - 
fast functional fun :D

I'd leave the fine details of taglines to someone who is better versed in 
english than me, though.
-- 
  Linus Björnstam

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020, at 15:08, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hello Guilers!
> 
> The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
> came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
> way I see Guile.
> 
> Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
> libguile is here to stay.  Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
> accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
> doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
> more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.
> 
> Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
> what Guile is to me is:
> 
>   GNU, fast, fun, functional
> 
> What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)
> 
> Ludo’.
> 
> Attachments:
> * signature.asc



Re: Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Amirouche Boubekki
Le sam. 18 janv. 2020 à 15:14, Ludovic Courtès  a écrit :
>
> Hello Guilers!
>
> The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
> came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
> way I see Guile.
>
> Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
> applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
> libguile is here to stay.  Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
> accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
> doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
> more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.

I agree.

>
> Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
> what Guile is to me is:
>
>   GNU, fast, fun, functional
>

I think the term functional is overloaded and somewhat misleading
because Guile is NOT ONLY functional.
I would rather see "multi-paradigm" and / or "batteries included".

> What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)

Guile is a fast dynamic programming language.



Logo baseline

2020-01-18 Thread Ludovic Courtès
Hello Guilers!

The Guile logo has this “GNU extension language” baseline.  As Guile 3
came out, this baseline felt odd to me, not quite corresponding to the
way I see Guile.

Clearly, Guile is still an extension language, with many great
applications (Gnucash, Lepton-EDA, OpenCog, GDB, etc.), and I’m sure
libguile is here to stay.  Yet, to me, “extension language” does not
accurately capture what Guile today allows for and what people have been
doing with it; since 2.0, it’s more than an extension language, even
more so with the performance afforded by Guile 3.

Thus, I’d propose changing the baseline.  Something that would describe
what Guile is to me is:

  GNU, fast, fun, functional

What’s about you?  What’s Guile to you?  :-)

Ludo’.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: GNU Guile 3.0.0 released

2020-01-18 Thread Ludovic Courtès
Hi!

Andy Wingo  skribis:

> We are delighted to announce GNU Guile release 3.0.0, the first in the
> new 3.0 stable release series.
>
> Compared to the previous stable series (2.2.x), Guile 3.0 adds support
> for just-in-time native code generation, speeding up all Guile programs.
> See the NEWS extract at the end of the mail for full details.

Woohoo!  As discussed privately, thumbs up to you Andy for the
incredible work on the compiler and JIT: you had expressed your plan a
few years ago, at a time where there was still a lng way to go, and
it’s impressive to see that it has worked according to the plan.

Thanks also to everyone who contributed to all the other features that
made it into 3.0: they’re also part of what makes Guile 3 so great!

I’m really happy we’ll be able to take advantage of all this in Guix!

Happy Guile 3 hacking!  :-D

Ludo’.