I have been watching this topic with interest. Just my uneducated opinion, but I think there are a number of factors at play here. We are healthier and better fed than our ancestors so yes, our bodies are 'modern' and in many cases lager scaled, but life style has a great deal to do with it as well. For the most part we are trying to reproduce fashions of the middle and upper classes, whose lifestyle was considerably different than the "working" man. If burly shoulders were an indication of a man that had to labor to eke out a living, then I can see where the fashion would be towards making the silhouette as narrow as possible to indicate that a person did not have to labor for his living. These days a more muscular appearance seems to be favored through all social strata. Young men from prosperous families in previous eras engaged in 'leisure activities' that required an upright "back straight, shoulders up and square" posture such as horseback riding, fencing, shooting, etc. And young women similarly - I defy anyone to slouch and play the piano well for example. By comparison, many modern day people drive to work, sit at computers, and for entertainment watch television. Those striving for fitness often work out a gym or health spa which gives a different body structure again than someone whole engages in physical labor for a living. And, as has been mentioned already, posture was an indicator of social status. Also, modern medical science and chiropractic support a more natural posture, advocating allowing for the natural curvature of the spine. To me this looks like slouching btw, but it does open the shoulders wider. Just for an experiement and out of curiosity - I had my shoulder width measured while sitting up square and straight and then when slouching - there was a 5" difference in the width of my shoulder measurement! There are still a wide variety of body types out there. For example, I have a friend who would probably need very little alteration or scaling up for that matter to be fitted well. Lastly, if the stereotype for physical appearance/stature being related to country or geographical area of origin has any basis in fact, would not the clothing made for an 18th cent. Frenchman, (who were supposedly shorter and smaller in stature), be a bit tight for an 18th cent. contemporary from a different geographical origin? JMHO Annette M Message: 4 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 20:13:25 +0000 From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] posture and cut, was williamsburg suit
The cut of clothes seems to be still moving (not surprising really..) I would say my husband and I both have pretty good posture, and recently we have both found that shirts or blouses from Next are too narrow across the front and too wide across the back. If we stand normally they strain at the buttons - if we slump our shoulders a little they fit better! Only from the one shop, so far, but Next must think this is the shape of the modern torso. Are there any other periods when you find a wider back and narrower front? We know fashion is cyclical - waistlines go up and down, shoulders and hips go out and in - do shoulders go forward and back as well? Jean Kelly Grant wrote >It will have a bit of a modern look, because of our modern bodies, but >if you try to cut the back narrow, the shoulder seam to the back, the >shoulders as narrow as possible, and the armhole high, you should still >have the 'look' you are trying to achieve. > >I spoke with the other professor this morning about your dilema, he >felt the same way I did...and it seems, many others, that you can't get >a good fit by scaling up historical garments, we are built differently. > >The only other thing I could suggest, as it worked for a college of >mine, is to practice the movements and excercises of the period. Mark >taught Victorian period calesthenics for a historic site here in the >city. When I went to create a new doublet for him, I found that the >shape of his body pattern fit exactly like the period draft! It was >exciting for both of us to see the way we move in different ways from >our historical counterparts. > >Good luck on the new draft! > >Kelly in Nova Scotia > > > >"Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, >faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers >in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, >despite your fears" >Caius Merlyn Britannicus > > > > > >>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >>Reply-To: Historical Costume >>To: >>Subject: [h-cost] williamsburg suit >>Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:19:02 +0100 >> >>Hi, >>Thanks for all your interresting inputs to my question. >>It is interresting to compare all the real cuts to the cuts in >>Evolution of Fashion. What i want is to obtain the original cut as >>much as possible. But it really is difficult and i wished i had a >>dress stand of myself. >>I cant stop thinking about all our words for newbeginners when we say >>that "oh no, dont use Evolution of Fashion" because that is so wrong >>and ment for theater costumes, when in the end our original cut ends >>up to look like these cuts in the book. >>I wish i could make it excatly as original, but it is impossible.......... >>It does end to look like the cuts in Evolution......... >> >>Bjarne >> >> >>Leif og Bjarne Drews >>www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >>http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> Message: 6 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:22:27 +0100 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: Re: [h-cost] posture and cut, was williamsburg suit To: "Historical Costume" Hi Jean, Yes i have often wondered this two, and this about narrow back was that a renaissance "thing" two? There also is the 1625-50 "thing" to bend your back so that your belly goes out. This is both sexes.............. Bjarne --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
