Re: [h-cost] Italian Bolognaise style
Michael Hamilton wrote: In the caption, it mentions that Mrs Roslin-Giroust is dressed a la Boulognaise, or in the style of Bologna. So, the big question - what about her dress is Boulognaise? (BTW, google unfortunately gets swamped by spaghetti recipes when you try to google it). At the risk of stating the obvious, have you tried using Advanced Search and asking it to exclude spaghetti recipes? Kate Bunting Librarian 17th century reenactor _ The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this email was sent to you in error, please notify the sender and delete this email. Please direct any concerns to info...@derby.ac.uk. The policy is available here: http://www.derby.ac.uk/LIS/Email-Policy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Laurie Taylor wrote: I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two. I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female. I opted for this one because it fit well on my fabric without piecing. The fabric is a very dark charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic. It’s what I had on hand so, even if the color isn’t period, it’s going to happen. snip Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing. I did the math to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric around 105” x 120” approximately. How would you piece that, or how might it have been pieced in period, assuming that they didn’t just weave a fabric to a dimension suitable for that garment? Looking at surviving examples of medieval half-circular cloaks, where the cut is discernable from the available publications, pretty much all of them are pieced to some degree. (This isn't surprising when you compare the style to the typical fabric widths in use in the medieval period.) Most often, the basic shape is formed by sewing together strips parallel with the straight edge of the half-circle, but very often the area farthest from that straight edge is further pieced in order to use up the bits cut off for the curved edges of the strip next to it. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
Thank you Heather. Logically, that's about what I expected, but I just have no references here to confirm that. I've cut one cloak and it's lining but will have to work on it after an SCA event this weekend. Anxious to get it finished! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 8:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but... On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Laurie Taylor wrote: I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two. I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female. I opted for this one because it fit well on my fabric without piecing. The fabric is a very dark charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic. Its what I had on hand so, even if the color isnt period, its going to happen. snip Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing. I did the math to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric around 105 x 120 approximately. How would you piece that, or how might it have been pieced in period, assuming that they didnt just weave a fabric to a dimension suitable for that garment? Looking at surviving examples of medieval half-circular cloaks, where the cut is discernable from the available publications, pretty much all of them are pieced to some degree. (This isn't surprising when you compare the style to the typical fabric widths in use in the medieval period.) Most often, the basic shape is formed by sewing together strips parallel with the straight edge of the half-circle, but very often the area farthest from that straight edge is further pieced in order to use up the bits cut off for the curved edges of the strip next to it. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
Had you considered that piecing is in fact period? There are many, many examples of piecing throughout the centuries. I'd suggest the best approach might be to see how wide the typical fabric _of_the_day_ (or area!) might be, and piece even if you don't need to! :) As far as lining. Kayta once told me that you absolutely do not want a slippery lining over your shoulders-- unless you want to fight holding the cape in place. She used cotton lining in the shoulder area, and, should satin be called for, satin in the rest. However, I am not so familiar with the 1100s. My impression, however, is that woolens were often NOT hemmed or lined, because they were quite thick and rather fulled. A simple line of stitching around the (non) hem would keep them tidy. Same with slashings dags. The reason that later period clothing was often brushed and spot- cleaned was that washing an entire garment was't the usual treatment. I can see the reasoning: so often washing was boiling and beating, which would full (and shrink) the cloth. I wonder if the same were true in the 12th century. == Marjorie Wilser (who has bought the very last of a t-shirt knit and even pieced the shirt! Yep. loved it that much) =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:42 AM, Laurie Taylor wrote: I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two. I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female. I opted for this one because it fit well on my fabric without piecing. The fabric is a very dark charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic. It’s what I had on hand so, even if the color isn’t period, it’s going to happen. I’m stuck on lining. I’m guessing that it should be a linen, though I was eye-balling a super-fine 130 wool from my stash. The color isn’t good though, I suppose – being a blue-gray, almost faded teal, but it sure feels nice. What would be a good color, keeping maybe sort of period? I’m not wanting to go buying more fabric – I own too darn much! But I’m not sure that I’ve got anything in a good color/fiber combination. Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing. I did the math to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric around 105” x 120” approximately. How would you piece that, or how might it have been pieced in period, assuming that they didn’t just weave a fabric to a dimension suitable for that garment? Wide open to thoughts and ideas! Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
Thank you Marjorie. You made some good points about the slippery issue with linings. Actually the first lining that I have cut is not at all slippery, simply because I was trying to find something linen or linen-like in a decent color. What I found is definitely not slippery, as linen would not be either. As for the edge finishes, the gray cloak fabric could do quite well without a seamed edge, though the lining will have to be turned inwards and stitched around, as it would fray. I've been looking at some of the information on period stitches and edge-finishes, online of course, and think I know how this one will get finished. I did figure that piecing would be period, but just wasn't entirely sure where to piece on this first cloak. I ended up settling for a 1/2 circle since it would fit on my fabric without piecing. Next one I will make a point to piece, at least enough to cut a 5/8 or 3/4 circle. I am thoroughly modern when it comes to garment maintenance. My labor is worth something, at least to me, so my dry-cleaners help me to preserve the fruits of my labor - no beating clothes on a rock by a stream for this city girl. Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:00 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but... Had you considered that piecing is in fact period? There are many, many examples of piecing throughout the centuries. I'd suggest the best approach might be to see how wide the typical fabric _of_the_day_ (or area!) might be, and piece even if you don't need to! :) As far as lining. Kayta once told me that you absolutely do not want a slippery lining over your shoulders-- unless you want to fight holding the cape in place. She used cotton lining in the shoulder area, and, should satin be called for, satin in the rest. However, I am not so familiar with the 1100s. My impression, however, is that woolens were often NOT hemmed or lined, because they were quite thick and rather fulled. A simple line of stitching around the (non) hem would keep them tidy. Same with slashings dags. The reason that later period clothing was often brushed and spot- cleaned was that washing an entire garment was't the usual treatment. I can see the reasoning: so often washing was boiling and beating, which would full (and shrink) the cloth. I wonder if the same were true in the 12th century. == Marjorie Wilser (who has bought the very last of a t-shirt knit and even pieced the shirt! Yep. loved it that much) om/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
On Nov 10, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Julie wrote: One would be to know what they have and accurately and fully describe it. I see a lot of errors describing knit vs. crochet vs. other techniques. Then I think one of the most useful things a museum could do would be lots of photos and get some darned closeups. The pictures I looked at on the from the link you posted for the Smithsonian didn't have anything that wasn't full length - no details at all. OTOH, some pictures I've seen from the VA get so close I could chart the knit or beaded designs. I really appreciate that kind of information online since it's unlikely I'll ever get to go to the museum. Julie in Ramona Both of these, alas, pretty much boil down to questions of money. Museums are increasingly understaffed, and often can't spare the time for their curators to do much research on what something really is and how it should be labeled. Also, it means that the few curators they can hire often don't cover the full range of expertise they need for the things they have -- almost no fine arts museums have jewelry curators, for instance. A famous example from the Met has a curator of sculpture writing about a painting and getting the clothing description hilariously wrong because he doesn't understand surcotes. (Mirror of the Medieval World, painting of St. Clare of Assisi) Writing and correcting the catalog descriptions (either in the museum, online or both) is also time-consuming. Online photos are expensive both in terms of getting the photos taken in the first place (since it usually means hiring a professional photographer) and then in terms of processing and preparing them for the Web. I agree that the VA and some other museums are now beginning to do a truly splendid job of posting useful, detailed online photos of a few objects (sometimes even hundreds of objects) but not all museums feel they can afford to follow suit, or else simply don't have that as one of their priorities. (I know some interesting pieces that are now in a museum in Qatar, for instance, which has NO photos of items in their collection online yet.) It's often annoying to see something mislabeled on the Web (sprang mis- labeled as knitting, for instance). First, of course museums are not infallible: they can only use the knowledge they have. Second, sometimes a former opinion on what something is (made when knowledge was less) persists for a long time because either they can't find someone whose scholarship they trust to say otherwise, or again purely because no one on staff can spare the time to do the fixes. A recent example is an Islamic knitted cotton sock that is still labeled as probably coming from India, when that idea has been pretty thoroughly debunked within the last twenty years or so. Annoying as it is, sixty costumers writing in to a museum to say fix this, please is often not going to make a lot of difference. The problem is that museum staff can't know all the experts in all fields personally, so they have to rely on credentials to judge who is and who isn't giving them good advice. If you have a Ph.D. or published scholarly papers on Islamic textiles, for instance, they are likely to take your advice more seriously than if you are someone who has been studying and re-creating historical costume for thirty years. You may know just as much as the Ph.D., but the museum has no way to know who does and who doesn't know what they're talking about. OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
On Nov 11, 2010, at 1:52 PM, Chris Laning wrote: Both of these, alas, pretty much boil down to questions of money. Museums are increasingly understaffed, and often can't spare the time for their curators to do much research on what something really is and how it should be labeled. Also, it means that the few curators they can hire often don't cover the full range of expertise they need for the things they have -- almost no fine arts museums have jewelry curators, for instance. Sometimes it's a matter of what costumers can do for museums! It's possible that they could use volunteers for some of these tasks. If the museum is an essential source for the type of costuming you do, make them your project as well. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need help identifying furs (Success! And now for sale, if anyone's interested.)
Well gang, I went to Macy's fur vault on Monday and lucked out. Their furrier specialist from Chicago was available on site today, and was happy to look my fur pieces over. Here are the pictures again: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24767...@n06/sets/72157625297457400/ or http://tinyurl.com/2cc3hdz The light-colored piece is Stone Marten, and the darker piece made of the smaller critters is Palm Marten. He said they were both in good shape, and perfect for re-purposing. Now that I know what I'm dealing with, is there anyone out there who would like one or more of these for re-purposing? I don't want to charge as much as the furrier suggested, so how about $25 for the Stone Marten and $20 for the Palm Marten? You can contact me privately at mpl...@wideopenwest.com Thank you for all your help! Michelle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
Then I think one of the most useful things a museum could do would be lots of photos and get some darned closeups. The pictures I looked at on the from the link you posted for the Smithsonian didn't have anything that wasn't full length - no details at all. OTOH, some pictures I've seen from the VA get so close I could chart the knit or beaded designs. I really appreciate that kind of information online since it's unlikely I'll ever get to go to the museum. I work for a museum. We have a grand total of 4 staff. We all wear so many hats we can't keep track of them all. Personally, I'm responsible for the collection, the exhibitions, all museum security, the desktop publishing, supervising student fellows and work-studies, managing the climate control system, the museum shop, and more. I'd LOVE to have that level of detail for everything in the collection even for our own purposes let alone for interested visitors, but it's neither a time nor financial possibility at the moment... Astrida *** Astrida Schaeffer, Exhibitions and Collections Manager Museum of Art, University of New Hampshire Paul Creative Arts Center 30 Academic Way Durham, NH 03824-3538 603-862-0310 FAX: 603-862-2191 www.unh.edu/moa *** ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] how museums can help costumers
I work for a museum. We have a grand total of 4 staff. We all wear so many hats we can't keep track of them all. Personally, I'm responsible for the collection, the exhibitions, all museum security, the desktop publishing, supervising student fellows and work-studies, managing the climate control system, the museum shop, and more. I'd LOVE to have that level of detail for everything in the collection even for our own purposes let alone for interested visitors, but it's neither a time nor financial possibility at the moment... Astrida Astrida, I really do understand your problem. There are many museums I was able to wander through in Germany that aren't open any longer because the personnel simply aren't there and the people who do know the collections are simply not computer literate, nor do computers necessarily speed things up! Much as I cringe to suggest this would a cadre of volunteers help? I don't mean young, hot shot computer experts although some of Tudor Talkers might be great for this. I'm thinking of the wonderful guides I've had in various cities of older people who love their cities and now they have retired have time to devote to guiding and other things. Here in the States I'm always surprised at the number of people in their 80's and over who are not only computer literate, but desperate for something that they can do to keep their minds and fingers busy. I'm looking forward to taking classes that wouldn't do me any good for work, but that fascinate me (medieval/Tudor history). I'd be happy to learn any computer program you might need to help put things on-line if we were anywhere close. Digitizing books is one thing I could definitely do, and I'm used to working at least 40 hours a week. Wanda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
Hi Laurie, I've used a woollen lining for a cloak I take with me to the winter (sometimes snow) camps. It's been brilliant. I find that when water gets through the outer wool layer on a cloak, it wicks through a linen lining quite quickly, but the woollen lining gives a bit more protection. Have fun! Glenda. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 1:43 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but... I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two. I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female. I opted for this one because it fit well on my fabric without piecing. The fabric is a very dark charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic. Its what I had on hand so, even if the color isnt period, its going to happen. Im stuck on lining. Im guessing that it should be a linen, though I was eye-balling a super-fine 130 wool from my stash. The color isnt good though, I suppose being a blue-gray, almost faded teal, but it sure feels nice. What would be a good color, keeping maybe sort of period? Im not wanting to go buying more fabric I own too darn much! But Im not sure that Ive got anything in a good color/fiber combination. Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing. I did the math to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric around 105 x 120 approximately. How would you piece that, or how might it have been pieced in period, assuming that they didnt just weave a fabric to a dimension suitable for that garment? Wide open to thoughts and ideas! Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...
Thanks for the thought Glenda. I'm not likely to see snow anytimeever...but rain is a possibility and staying dry is really nice! I may have to try that on another one. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Glenda Robinson Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:44 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but... Hi Laurie, I've used a woollen lining for a cloak I take with me to the winter (sometimes snow) camps. It's been brilliant. I find that when water gets through the outer wool layer on a cloak, it wicks through a linen lining quite quickly, but the woollen lining gives a bit more protection. Have fun! Glenda. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Taylor Sent: Friday, 12 November 2010 1:43 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but... I'm not sure how much overlap there is between this list and an SCA garb list, so I hoped for more ideas between the two. I am cutting a cloak, the half-circle style as shown in Hill Bucknell, The Evolution of Fashion 1066-1930, c.1100 male/female. I opted for this one because it fit well on my fabric without piecing. The fabric is a very dark charcoal, almost black, woolen-like, though probably acrylic. Its what I had on hand so, even if the color isnt period, its going to happen. Im stuck on lining. Im guessing that it should be a linen, though I was eye-balling a super-fine 130 wool from my stash. The color isnt good though, I suppose being a blue-gray, almost faded teal, but it sure feels nice. What would be a good color, keeping maybe sort of period? Im not wanting to go buying more fabric I own too darn much! But Im not sure that Ive got anything in a good color/fiber combination. Also, quite a few of the cloaks of c.1066-1260 or thereabouts are greater than ½ circle and harder to fit on fabric without piecing. I did the math to enlarge one particular pattern, and it would need a piece of fabric around 105 x 120 approximately. How would you piece that, or how might it have been pieced in period, assuming that they didnt just weave a fabric to a dimension suitable for that garment? Wide open to thoughts and ideas! Laurie T. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
