Re: [h-cost] Non destructive testing for wool/synthetic

2016-08-18 Thread michaela de bruce
Super fast way: wool is a natural fibre and has scales. So this means that
like human hair you have a smooth direction and a not smooth direction.

If you take a lock of hair, hold it tight you can easily run another finger
down the length but it catches on the way up.

Wool I think is less scaly, but acrylic is not scaly at all. So if you can
get a few loose threads you could feel for that. Same reason woollens fluff
up but worsteds are smooth. In worsted the fibres are spun in one direction
in woollens they are in both directions so the fibres catch with the scales
more readily.

This will really only identify natural vs spun plastic though :)

But wool also smells of wool when washed, and I find acrylic squeaks
upleasantly when rolled between the fingers. My school uniforms used
acrylic for the bulk of the fibres and this was the sensation I most

A really good microscope would definitely identify the fibres :)


On 18 August 2016 at 18:46, Elizabeth Jones 

> Hi everyone,
> This is not directly historical but I knew this list would be my best
> chance of an answer.
> My uncle sent my 2 month old son a gift of a hand knitted cardigan which he
> bought from a charity stall. without a label I have no way to know if they
> have used wool or acrylic yarn.
> I know I can test using bleach or a burn test but I don't want to damage
> the garment is there a non destructive test I can do on a finished garment?
> Thanks
> Elizabeth
> ___
> h-costume mailing list

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Re: [h-cost] Patterns available at LACMA

2016-02-11 Thread michaela de bruce
Just found this in a hunt for other images. It certainly contains more
information than I have seen from published snippets.
Diderot, I think the entire encyclopedia in fact, but the tailor stuff is
all here, including cloth layouts.

On 9 February 2016 at 12:11, michaela de bruce <>

> There are heaps of patterns and guides already, it's just many books are
> now OOP. Waugh did her (nicely sized) book some time ago, and same with the
> Danish National Museum (some of which are online as pdfs- and there are a
> range of garments tidenstoj*- but I understand the books are really huge-
> or maybe I'm thinking of a Swedish series of books? I know there are many
> European books not in English anyway) and Blanche Payne. The Tailor's
> manuals all focus on men's gear and women usually are listed after the
> clergy and horses. Even two of Arnold's books has men's garments (and there
> are more male garments than female in the 3rd book.
> Anyway, women's extant garments tend to be a lot bigger, so when you are
> talking a rigid torso and pleated and draped skirts that's incredibly
> difficult to carefully explore without damage. And so much damage happened
> to women's dress especially in the 19thC that they often need more
> restoration. That is if they survive. During periods of heavy fabrics and
> patterns skirts became very handy to recyle in to church vestments or to
> redress effigy/figures. The garments LACMA started with are ideal as they
> can be carefully laid quite flat- and they can also confirm the shapes seen
> in the tailor manuals at the time.
> so for those who want more patterns:
> 3X copies of "Gazette of fashion, and cutting-room companion" 1860s
> 4x copies of Gazette of fashion. 1870s-1881
> All seven books focus on mens' garments.
> or
> Part 1, 1898 edition, The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting Every Kind
> of Garment Made, in a series of parts, Part One. Young Men's, Youths' and
> Juvenile Garments, Embracing also Treatise on Trousers, Vests, Military
> Garments, Liveries, etc., etc., etc.
> Part 2, 1893 edition, The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting every type
> of Garment made by Tailors, With detailed instructions as to their
> production, Part II, Body Coats of every description, embracing Morning,
> Frock and Dress Coats, Livery, Clerical, Naval, Military, Police and other
> Special Garments
> The Cutter's Practical Guide to the Cutting & Making all Kinds of
> Trousers, Breeches, & Knickers, to which is added chapters dealing with the
> cutting & making of Highland kilts, leggings, gaiters, etc. in Gallery
> View, [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the Lakewood Library]
> Part 4. date unknown, Livery Garments in all their varieties, including
> coats, vests, trousers, breeches and gaiters as worn by livery servants
> [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the Lakewood Library]
> Part 9,1898 edition, The Cutter's Practical Guide to Jacket Cutting and
> Making, Embracing Lounges, Reefers & Patrol Jackets, in all their
> Varieties, Also Including the Cutting and Making of Robes and Gowns, Being
> Part IX of The Cutter's Practical Guide to the Cutting and Making of all
> Kinds of Garments
> Part 10: (edition date unknown)
> The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting & Making all kinds of Waistcoats
> for Gentlemen, Ladies, Military & Naval Officers, Livery Servants, etc.,
> etc. in Gallery View, [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the Lakewood Library]
> Part 11 . date unknown, Shirts, Undergarments, Collars, Cuffs, Aprons, and
> Specialty Clothing for Various Occupations [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the
> Lakewood Library]
> Part 12 (Date Unknown) The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting & Making
> all kinds of Clerical Dress [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the Lakewood Library,
> includes also British Legal and Academic robes]
> Part 13 (Date Unknown) The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting & Making
> all kinds of British Military Uniforms [Scans by Pat Lamprey of the
> Lakewood Library, includes also British Legal and Academic robes]
> L'Art du tailleur. The Tailor's Guide; a complete system of cutting every
> kind of garment to measure, etc. 2 vol
> Charles Compaing, Louis Devere
> Simpkin, Marshall, 1855 - 128 pages

Re: [h-cost] searching for 1887 misses' fashion illustrations

2016-01-21 Thread michaela de bruce
I know I have a number of group photos from the 1880s, but they are
obviously dressed for the photos. I think may be one of
the books, the other was a huge tome, green cover, just trying to remember
the name.

has a lot, a lot of photos of the era here. And includes groups :)

> Okay, I have an overly specific search challenge/request for the list!  I'm
> looking for illustrations (of any sort, as long as they're primary or
> really
> really accurate secondary sources) of what upper middle class girls of 9,
> 15, and 19 years old would wear in the summer of 1887 as they're boarding a
> train for a ride across the US.  To be even MORE specific (and this and the
> train aspect are where I've had trouble with my own searches so far) I'm
> looking for rear, side, and 3/4 rear views.  The 1880s is decidedly not my
> period--can anyone help me?
> (This is for a book cover illustration, and okay, period accuracy isn't
> strictly speaking a requirement, because maybe .05% of readers would catch
> any mistakes, but darn it, _I'd_ know!  You know?)

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Re: [h-cost] What's your dummy wearing this season?

2016-01-13 Thread michaela de bruce
I have a display mannequin in the lounge, but she is naked, she is mainly
holding a sci-fi alien headpiece up to prevent it deforming. So I'm going
to put that on once I finish typing :)

My dressform is loaned out to a friend, and the one I have borrowed in
replacement is also naked while I tidy my art space. I have just restored
my sewing/ironing desk top so I can actually start working again :) I have
a new removeable cover to finish sewing as well. Then I can iron huge
applique pieces again.

As for current projects:
Finally finishing my c1600 Spanish gown, stage one anyway. I decided I
probably won't have enough trim for the doublet and the galerilla as I
thought so doublet is a higher priority. It means all new stays, finishing
the underlayers and tracking down lace of a suitable size.
While doing this I have documentation to write up, which means a fair
amount of scanning so, ugh. Got that to look forward to.

I also have an Elsa spring gown to make (Frozen Fever) as the ice gown
sleeves can get a little warm at big children's events :)

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Re: [h-cost] Costumes in "War and Peace"

2016-01-10 Thread michaela de bruce
Oh this is one of my all time favourite books :) I was lucky enough that
even though the library it was housed in wasn't part of the system I was on
I could still go to the library and read it. Seriously, one city, seven
regional councils, with different systems, and books split between them.
Prior to that there were even more systems split between boroughs. And for
some reason the system I was in had almost no art books. And, even better,
inter library loan generally couldn't be done between these systems and I'd
often get books from other parts of the country.
It should never have been that difficult but it was and I still have stacks
of low grade photocopies from books at the university library when was just
insane heaven for me. An entire full stack of books. Even the main central
library here has fewer costume history books than the university main
library (not even talking about the fine arts library which is a small room
but full of beautiful books.)

Anyway, in case it seemed
like an exageration ;) It's only been since 2010 that I've been able to
borrow from my nearest library.

On 7 January 2016 at 06:00, Viv Watkins <>

> There is a fascinating book - "Hollywood and History - Costume Design in
> Film"  which looks how costume designers present historical dress.   It was
> published in 1988 to accompany an exhibition mounted at the Los Angeles
> County Museum of Art.  Part of the foreword says "Contemporary viewers are
> not aware that the costumes reflect their own standards of style and beauty
> - that the cave-dwellers' costumes are cut to emphasise the 1940's
> silhouette, that the antebellum dresses are made with 1930's bias-cut
> fabrics.  It is only with the passage of time that one can see clearly how
> all-pervasive the designer's contemporary aesthetics have been." It is one
> of my favourite costume books, it has given me an extra layer of fun when I
> watch the wonderful old movies.
> Viv Watkins.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and fedoras

2014-08-20 Thread michaela de bruce
Hi :)

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Sybella wrote:
 OH!! I forgot! I was going to give you one more link...old videos of women
 doing their hair. I love this!

This is my website and I have just removed it to be hosted on my new site :)

Sadly people have taken the images and posted them to other sites
without credit so thank you for linking back properly!

The good news is I have unearthed my annuals and will be able to
update more :) There is a wealth of information in the books and I'd
like to record them for posterity :)

As for Fedoras in this context, given it's the 1880s and the fringe
(bangs) was a very new way of doing the hair, and Sarah B. has a
fringe in her costume as Fedora I'd be inclined to think she means the
curls of the fringe.

Also at this time you could buy false fringes that meant women did not
have to cut their hair given they were an on off fashion since :) And
the false fringes tended to be very very frizzy.

 What you suggested are all definite possibilities. While bobby pins are a
 newer invention, standard hair pins have been around since before the birth
 of Christ. In addition to pinning curls to your head like 40s pin curls,
 hair pin curls could be achieved in the same way that hairpin crochet is
 done; take a small strand, wrap it back and forth on the needles, pin the
 whole thing in place and let it dry.

Yep, Harper's Bazaar even has a how to on this for the very late 1860s
or early 1870s. I've done it and you get super super crimped and
frizzy hair!

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] gauging for gathers?

2014-03-13 Thread michaela de bruce

 a. Not upper class, more middling.
 b. pleats are fine by me.
 c. have at least 4x waist.
 d. allowing for bum roll

 Saw fabric (in the form of a pair of draperies) in a thrift store. Hy'ing
 buns back there tomorrow to pick them up.
 Too bad though- cartridge pleating/gauging is a really pretty look!

Both Dorothea gowns (Sabine and Maria) are essentially gauged even though
they are both made from dense fabrics. Figure 340 in Patterns of Fashion
especially shows how fine the gathers are. They show so little of the
fabric that you can't really call them pleats, it is much closer to gauging
than what should be called cartridge pleating. Also the child's gown c1600
is gathered.

I may have a few issues with how confusing it gets when cartridge pleats
are meant to be padded and you know, look like a row of cartridges ;) But
the term is used to refer to even gathers. These are technically 17thC of

It's generally a case of make the fabric fit- which is pretty much the
extent of what tailors say in their manuals. Nothing about specific methods
or percentages. Just make these parts match. Also important is how much
flare to the skirt gores you use because they really are a key to what
region and what time frame you are aiming for. And gores are really
important everywhere except for 1590s on and some of the Italian stuff.
Basically you get more hem for your buck by goring.

Even Eleanora's skirt has pleats that are wider than they are deep, or
rather there are narrow knife pleats with expanses of unpleated fabric. Not
really something you can rigorously calculate ;)

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Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem

2010-10-29 Thread michaela de bruce
 How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or 
 or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so
 self conscious about what I am wearing.

I've read all the replies and have one more thing to add: thread bars
are going to cause different tensions to the metal hooks. I generally
will use the eyes that come with my hooks so as to keep the tension
equal on both sides of the opening.

I sew through all layers at the base of both hooks and eyes but I also
sew at the top of both hooks and eyes. Most people know to sew at the
top of the hook but it's just as vital to do so with the eyes. I sew a
stitch at about 11 and 1 o'clock of the curve of the eye- just enough
to let the hook through and no more. This means the eye will move with
all the layers of the fabric just like the hook.

Doing it this way means I don't need to alternate hooks and eyes as I
have equal tension all the way.

I also don't sew my hooks too far from the edge of the garment as that
will also cause gaping and lifting. It's only a couple of mm from the
edge if I sew the hooks and eyes securely through every layer- there
have been times I've stretched the stitching and had to redo them. I
do like to use mid to large sized hooks as I can sew boning between
the stitches at the top and base of the hooks and eyes (baleen can be
shaped into a curve so I use a very soft cable tie which can also be
shaped into those curves). But often the thickness of the fabrics and
seam allowances is enough (I usually use a heavy wool/linen shell with
a layer of canvas and then lining so six layers of fabric is quite

I do though also use trimming to hide the visible stitches usually
unless I've been super careful with my stitches to be neater on the
outside than inside ;) Luckily most of the guarding I do sits about
5mm from the edge so it's quite perfect to hide stitches.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:

2010-04-29 Thread michaela de bruce
  After much effort and little discovery though, arranging my hair in a nice 
 period coiffure seems entirely inpossible! Many people I know chose to wear 
 wigs or hair pieces when in costume and although this looks very nice, I have 
 been painstakingly growing out and caring for my own hair for 7 years now 
 solely for the purpose of doing these styles naturally. However, I cannot 
 seem to find a way to do it. Perhaps because I am not very experienced 
 styling hair?

c1880 hair is the epitome of simple elegance :) I do have a guide on
working with hair pieces for the ridiculous styles just before (styles
which I love btw ;) )
This was an age of mass amounts of fake hair even for women who had long hair.

But for 1880 a low bun is really all you need.
For this I would start with hair that has been set into fairly small
curls (pin curls overnight works well) and brush it- this will make
the hair fluff and appear fuller without adding heavy weight.
Take the back section and make a ponytail at about crown.
Part the front section and brush back behind and under the tail. You
will probably have to wrap the ends around the tail base or curl then
at the back of the head.
Twist the ponytail lightly and take the end back up to the crown.
Let the hair twist back on itself.
Secure the ends around the tail base and carefully pin the twist to
the back of the head.
Add flowers and whatnots to the side.

It will take experimentation and practice to work out where to put the
pins and how tightly or loosely to twist the ponytail.
Another example of the flat top and full at the back style.

Pretty much all of these can be done by making sure your hair is as
fluffy as possible and adaptations on the theme of ponytail wrapped
and twisted.
That's how I did this, though without time to dress myself as well as
others I didn't use any spray or anything to help my hair stay fluffy
all day.

Michaela de Bruce

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Re: [h-cost] google images

2010-03-29 Thread michaela de bruce
 My daughter is trying to gather some images from google on women in 1920s era 
 advertising. Every time she clicks on an image, a full-page ads-by-google 
 pops up and completely hides the image and the original web site. The address 
 in the browser is buyvintage ads .com or something.

Google images is not a database. Google does not own or keep or hold
any of the images. All google images does is creates a thumbnail from
the website and uses that as a link to the website. They do though put
a frame at the top of the page to let you know where you are and when
the image was cached by google. It's a search tool not a website.

I had a quick try of what you did and it is that website doing the ads
not google. For example:
The main image is the one the page describes, then at the top and
right and a row below are ads the site chooses to host to get money.
Scroll down and there are thumbnail images.

Again, it's not google it is the website. They also have a script
running to break out of google's frame so if you click the thumbnail
link in google images it by passes the framed page.

Unfortunately the owners of the site have a lot of domain names
pointing to the same files and use a lot of catch phrases to appear
first in the pages of links google provides.


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Re: [h-cost] The term hennin

2010-01-21 Thread michaela de bruce
  What's bothering me here is, why should these headdresses be associated
 with roosters?  Roosters are male, and these are female fashions. Yes, I
 know a cock has a comb on its head but still, this seems to be a stretch.
 Even if it's an insult, it seems to me that there should be some kind of
 rationale behind the term and that should be recognizable.

It could be some cuckold variant. Taking the comb from the male and
wearing it herself?
Then they also cut off the rooster's crest in order to remove all of
his virility.
A dictionary of sexual language and imagery in Shakespearean and
Stuart Literature Volume 2 By Gordon Williams.

who spent many years studying Shakespeare and Chaucer and cannot think
of these times as prude in any way shape or form ;)
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Re: [h-cost] Dream costume project

2009-11-13 Thread michaela de bruce
 If you had the time and the money what would be your dream costume projects? 
 What periods?

Currently working on them :D
c1600 white brocade Spanish ensemble
aqua Robe Francaise
1830s white cotton day dress
c1890 Worth gown with sunburst embroidery on front of skirt :)

Purely my historical side. I do media recreations as well and have
been getting through my backlog of Want to Do :)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Laser scissors

2009-08-22 Thread michaela de bruce
 Interesting... but I wonder how well they stay straight, when the hand moves 
 and the scissors jiggle, as they naturally are wont to do. And most lasers 
 offer a point, not a line to follow, at least on textiles (having just proven 
 that while I play with my kitten with the new laser pointer cat toy while on 
 the turkish carpet). I wonder if this is a different kind of laser?

You can make a line fairly easily, in fact I have a toy for my cat
that has a smiley face a dot and a few other shapes to follow, all
based on a laser pointer.

But yeah, it's a gimmick and really only useful if you have a steady
hand to begin with ;) And you wouldn't need a guide.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Curtain tape as costume supply item?

2009-08-08 Thread michaela de bruce
  Does anyone use shirring tape in costuming?  If so, how?

I have some 2 plus wide stuff at the moment. All cotton and the tape
is a nice herringbone twill. I will probably take the cord out (two
rows I think) and use it as a wide twill tape to hem with. I will also
look into using it for waist tape and other support type uses.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Question about a portrait

2009-06-17 Thread michaela de bruce
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote:

 I'm pretty sure this is from the decoration in the British Parliament,
 is a series of all the kings and queens of England and they all have a gold
 background and a caption underneath,
 I think it was done in the Victorian period but I don't know for sure.
Yep. Start from Elizabeth of York and work down for the specific examples.
Anne Boleyn is actually from a portrait of Anne of Bohemia. Seems to have
been mis-named for a long time as I saw the same (original) portrait in an
old encyclopedia under Anne's Boleyn's entry ;)

Other images on the site have modern-ish interpretations too ;)

I must flee or I'd have fun looking for other interpretations. They seem to
tell a lot about the period they are created in.

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Re: [h-cost] German early Renaissance gowns

2009-05-31 Thread michaela de bruce
 Despite looking at a lot of paintings, I am still puzzled about the waist
  closure of early Renaissance gowns.  For example, here: and detail here:

Best place to go is the Extant Mary of Hungary dress- it's basic shape
is built on the same principles as Saxon court gowns but is quite a
lot simpler so it's easier to understand. There are no pleats at the
waist but there is a gap where the bodice doesn't meet in the front.
There is a centre front seam though and it is the most likely place
for the skirt to open to allow a body to pass through. I use this as
the placement of my own openings and it works well. I also pin
everything together which is a perfectly period way of going about.
There are links from there to patterns and the like as well.

This style certainly evolved from showing the chemise (hemd) but by
this stage it's almost certainly a couple of separate pieces
underneath that we see and the hemd is hidden or only minimally seen.
Brustfleck is the wide gold piece which is probably pinned in place to
the gown or a support garment underneath. There are several variations
on the white piece from what appear to be the hemd, what might be a
boned/quilted body and finally what might be a heavy cloth piece.

If you go to the GermanRenaissanceCostume yahoo group you will have
access to the very informative file section (including translations
and explanations of clothing terms from the time). They certainly
paint a picture of the most likely ways to make these, and there are a
few variations possible.

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Re: [h-cost] Elizabethan Pair of Bodies for a petite figure.

2009-05-21 Thread michaela de bruce
Which way were you wearing the tabs? I ask as I had wondered about the
usefulness of them myself if they weren't boned ;) but I have been
told by someone with experience that wearing the tabs under the
farthingale (point over it though, like gowns in the 1660s) and
pointing the farthingale through the lacings holes as per the original
helps with weight distribution even better than without the unboned
It's something I'd like to try myself and of course it will depend on
fit length of stays etc etc. So not everyone will have the same
experience, nor indeed the same experience as the original wearer.

Michaela de Bruce

On 5/21/09, Melanie Schuessler wrote:
 Yes, but this version of the corset doesn't have boning in the sides and
 back--only down the front.   On a slender figure, it's not really a problem
 unless you've got bone ends digging into your waist.  And I doubt someone as
 slight as the client described will lace too tightly (which can cause
 problems, you're right).


  On May 20, 2009, at 2:22 PM, wrote:

  I've found that boning the tabs makes a huge amount of difference in
 taking the pressure off the waistline and distributing it over more surface
 area. I've seen really nasty blisters and abrasions (at the RenFaire) from
 people wearing tight, tabless corsets. We call it 'corset burn'. Of course,
 you have to make sure that you are using really flexible boning in the tabs.
 Super rigid steel bones don't bend the right way to go over hips and can be
 painful too.
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[h-cost] Judging styles was Re: losing points in judging

2009-05-12 Thread michaela de bruce
  This also depends on Judging Style. While I'll put points on the sheet I
 rarely use them except as a rough guideline during deliberations.


I do something similar as my role as judge for the cosplay contests
over here here (and come October in Oz too :) ) because of time

I though start with everyone at 5 out of 10. This is to assume they
have followed the two very basic rules: it was made by the wearer and
they told me how. Those are in the official rules and so this is the
minimum of what I would expect of everyone. The C grade if you will,
or pass or whatever. This is fairly moot as the contestants don't get
to see these numbers/grades but they help me in sorting out the
awards. Anyone over a certain mark is automatically in the running
(though not automatically awarded) and anyone below it will not- then
I can compare the individual entries. So it is in the contestants
interest to do more than the minimal amount required!

Points do get lost for not even giving me the basics but that happens
once a contest if that. Points are gained far more frequently, as
should be the case, and they are given for everything from fine
finishing to fit to choices of materials to creativity.

In this contest I am dealing with children through to adults and I
have to make sure that there is a truly even playing field and to
encourage everyone to be the best they can be. It's tough as well as I
am comparing not just time periods but every technique that can be
used in costuming that there is. I've had Spartans (fibreglass,
leather, vacuumforming oh my!) and ballgowns and bodypaint and latex
and tailoring... some in the same contest! So I do make notes of
complexity and execution. It means something apparently simple done
brilliantly can get the same score as a very complex costume not quite
so perfectly finished.
And of course anyone who can execute a very complex costume
beautifully deserves to be rewarded for that!

I do have to be tough at times. Every time we have run the contest
there are people who do not read the rules or expect to enter on the
day. These are not little contests. We had a good 60 people in the
last contest and for a country of around 4 million people that is
quite a staggering number. We do this three times a year and we get
that many in Auckland and Wellington but less in Christchurch due to
geographical location.
So remain very polite and explain why it is unfair to let people break
the rules when there are so many who follow them and have been working
on their costume for many months.

I also judge in SCA kingdom AS contests when I attend kingdom events
so I have a different set of judging criteria to work on. I think we
took two hours to judge 6 hats last weekend. Comments and marking
schedule included.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Yardage and Rambling, was: Re: Pattern for red dress on Dr Who

2009-05-06 Thread michaela de bruce
On 5/6/09, Käthe Barrows wrote:
  And I agree with whoever
   suggested true box pleats for that nice bodice detail.

 Knife pleats would do just as well, and would take up less fabric.

They'll take up just as much fabric, box pleats are just knife pleats
with one half pointing one way and the other half pointing the other.
They still use approx three times the length.

The original really does seem to blend elements from the 1840s to
1860s! very pretty though, but I am partial to the use of a single
colour and using textural details to give interest. Making me ponder
what to do with my 10 or more metres of red (scarlet and nearly wine
red shot) silk taffeta :)

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Re: [h-cost] Peacock Wedding Dress

2009-04-13 Thread michaela de bruce
It's not a print, just had to clarify that- at the bottom of the
article ;) Brocade and embroidery involved in it. I suspect the choice
of design has to to with the symbolism of the flowers used.

I have though seen a gorgeous fabric made to look like it had peacock
feathers sewn to it. Was a great mimic of the real deal right next to
it ;)
Michaela de Bruce

On 4/14/09, wrote:
 The skirt is awesome, but I really hate the print bodice. They couldn't find 
 something that actually matched the feathers?

  Kathleen Norvell

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 3:50 pm
  Subject: [h-cost] Peacock Wedding Dress

  My husband sent me this story and suggested I share it.

  Ann Wass
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Re: [h-cost] measuring question for pleats

2009-03-12 Thread michaela de bruce
Very little need for math at all. Just do as Emma says. You will wind
up with pleats possibly just shy of a full return going by the
I usually though just mark how many pleats I want on the narrow part
and then do the same with the wider. Match pin to pin and fold the
pleats. If I want a rolled pleat I just make sure the piece being
pleated is at least four times as wide as the piece I'm pleating to.
if I want shallow pleats, I just make sure it's between two to three.
If you look at most historical garments, there is very little maths
involved at all. It's more a case of how to best fit the two pieces
that you have.

Who did actually take maths (calculus) all the way to university. But
fabric is not paper and you don't have to have the same rules as you
do with geometry.

On 3/12/09, Aylwen Garden wrote:
 I guess this is another good reason why all girls should do math at school!
  Bye for now, toddling off now to do the math..
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Re: [h-cost] Mary I ???

2009-03-02 Thread michaela de bruce

  Anyone seen this one before - the image name indicates it is a Holbein??

French. Probably originally a Clouet (or two.. or three) but yes a
19thC print of it. So it may well have originally been labeled as Mary

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Re: [h-cost] Corset boning with zip ties

2009-03-02 Thread michaela de bruce
Love them. Just make sure to use them like you would reeds or baleen:
ie every channel or every second channel. And make sure to bone the
entire thing or get some additional support in there. Metal is a newer
material and essentially allowed for a lot of cutting back of the
amount of boning required.
Baleen also forms and shapes to the wearer over time and so do some
metal bones (some vintage pieces show this).

  The only real problem I've had with them is that in order to get them
  longer than about 14, you have to go up to a thicker/wider tie (or
  order off the interweb).

Or go to a trade electrical supply store :) There is a chain of them
here in NZ where I can pick up ~7mm X 450mm long easy peasy :) You can
also buy it as continual lengths if you ask for them to get it in
stock (actually works even more like baleen but you need to sand the
rough lumps off (these use a small metal tip to tie).

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Re: [h-cost] Victorian corset on UK TV- wearing a corset

2009-02-25 Thread michaela de bruce
  I have to disagree.  I am able to put on my corset and tighten it myself
 with the 2 part corset.

  Loosen the laces.

  Wrap the corset around you.

  Hook up the front.

  Keep adjusting your anatomy as you slowly pull the corset to its correct

Exactly how I do mine. And I am broken and have erosion in my wrists
(luckily none in my fingers) and have a low waist due to a deep rib
cage (which makes wearing a corset more difficult as you have less
squish factor.. I have squish, it's just all below the waist..)

When I take my corset off I only loose through the waist to begin with
so I have very little need to tighten the upper portion once I put it
back on. I also use a good flat nylon tape to lace with which slides
easily through the holes (but makes lovely bows) which allows me to
hook my fingers through the lacings four sets below the top and adjust
the top from there. I also do the bunny ears loops at the waist and
tug on the the top half to pull in the top and the bottom half to pull
in the hips. I don't just tug evenly on the loops. This way I get the
top to fit snugly but without cutting too deeply into my back and the
hips can be fitted more snugly.

For spiral laced garments I still the lacing in the front. I do want
to be able to always dress myself as easily as I'm able to. Everyone's
mileage varies in this aspect ;)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] More 1890s film discovered

2008-11-05 Thread michaela de bruce
Wow! Thanks for posting this :) I just forwarded the link withthe
video in it. Amazing it's incredibly clear so I suspect there was a
spot of restoration that went into it!
The woman with the neck ruff, amazing to see a fashion in motion like
that :) And all the hats...

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Re: [h-cost] Corsetry issues (was Looking for bad examples)

2008-10-03 Thread michaela de bruce
  Which makes me curious. What actual medical issues have people encountered 
 that really _do_ mean someone can't wear a corset? I'm sure it does happen -- 
 and it seems to me that having some idea of what really are the issues that 
 cause problems might help dressmakers decide whether to (1) attempt to 
 exercise more tactful persuasion, (2) devise some sort of work-around, or (3) 
 do the best they can to make a nice looking garment without corsetry.

I have an auto immune disease. I have toxic drugs to deal with it,
both cause problems

Sorry easier than starting off with Rheumatoid Arthritis as there are
too many assumptions made about it;)

I have to deal with pain and joint degradation every day but also
extreme fatigue and a body that simply cannot handle wearing the
frocks for long periods any more. Corsets are draining. I make mine
well, it's nothing to do with that. I just find after a few hours I
start to feel claustrophobic and need to get into something lighter/
looser. At events this is usually just put up with but I'm starting to
find my tolerance levels dropping. I had to leave an event a few weeks
back because I was about to have some sort of physical break down.

That was an extreme but what people assume about my disease is really
not everything that goes on.

Oh yeah and I do have digestive issues from 7+ years of daily
prednisone and anti-inflammatory use so anything tight/rigid around my
waist causes other issues.

Most of the time I do stick it out, but I'm looking at having to
change how I do things.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] More help with Spanish gown

2008-07-03 Thread michaela de bruce
  I'm wondering about that mourning name, though.  Is anyone familiar with
 Spanish mourning customs of the period, who could tell me why on earth such
 a gown would be labeled thus?

I wonder if it's not because it was reminiscent of a nun's habit?
Mongia, f.f. a monastery
Mongil, f. m. a sort of mourning weed for a woman, also the habit of any nun.
Mongil, f. m. the estate or condition of a nun
Mongil allibaxo, a long woman's gown or garment all of a piece.

And Minsheu (1599)
Mongil,m.a monks garment, a mourning garment for a woman
Mongilon, a mourning garment for a woman.

In the men's section there are some religious themed garments as well.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Spanish gown

2008-07-03 Thread michaela de bruce
 Yes the Alcega is much narrower than most of the examples in art, so
  it's not going to be quite the same shape as you would get
  extrapolating from the art as I was doing. It also has a gentle curve
  up the back of the arm, which again makes me happier about my own

Actually, now that I've looked again, it's really not that much
narrower, a fair bit than many but not to a great degree, I got fooled
a bit by the way it was laid out. So here is a side by side comparison
of the Alcega pattern, my pattern and the extant Manga de Punta:
Note how the pieces don't quite match up in Alcega, but then again
they really aren't patterns but a guideline.
Oh and my sleeves are a bit more pointy now. When I relined them and
then relined them again they tapered a bit more from armscye to tip.

The front curve in the Alcega looks like the start of the cut away
style seen in a few early 16thC gowns heavily influenced by the
Spanish fashion.

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Re: [h-cost] Help with Alcega was: Re: Spanish gown

2008-07-01 Thread michaela de bruce
  I'm very tempted to cut my fabric in strips 56 cm wide, then use the
 pattern almost as is, once I solve the waist width problem. Any tips?

This is how I have cut mine :) I folded my fabric in half and cut in
the fold, which is sort of like cutting 2 single widths of period
silk. As my waist to floor length is proportionally quite long I wound
up having to piece my front panels as well. As mentioned I tried
cutting the fronts narrower (to just the width of the cut fabric) but
it sat very badly on my hoops and so I gave up and just continued with
my proportional method.

I took the sloping sides of the pattern piece and extended the line up
and down until I wound up with a triangle with the apex on the CF and
CB lines. I then look my waist to side back measurement and found
where that would sit between the CF and sloping lines. Then I took my
waist to floor measurement and went from the waist line down the CF
line and from waist down the sloping line. Then connected the two in
an arc.
For the back I started in a similar manner but worked out the CB line
as a ratio of the CF line and ditto for the waist. I then followed the
line of the hem and chopped some of the train off! I lobe long trains
but I decided that long enough was long enough.

I even made scale diagrams of the original to match the 1/8 patterns
in PoF (and the c1600 Spanish girl's dress in Payne's book) and
compared proportions of front and back panels and decided that yes,
the back needed to be wider and that I needed to scale it up to fit
me. While the Alcega patterns don't show piecing in the front skirt
panels the extant items can. Also the Spanish girl's dress has a back
panel wider than the front as does the Dorothea Sabine and another
little girl's dress in poF. The Eleanora and Dorothea Maria though
have narrower back panels than the front.

My Valois gown with the full hanging sleeves only took 8m of 112cm
wide fabric and as mentioned with a long waist to floor length that's
quite impressive, especially with that train!

I adpated the farthingale pattern too. I don't know if you have
noticed but all the skirts look very long compared to the bodices and
appear to be a similar length to the farthingale. For this reason I
really recommend not putting in tucks but rather sew on channels as we
know was done. There are plenty of texts in Corsets and Crinolines and
Hispanic Costume to show the use of contrasting or matching channels.
My farthingale is currently in the process of an Extreme Makeover
(much like the home show it will not have any part of the original
left ;) It's going to be bright lime green (if possible) in a silk
twill I bought in pistachio green, and have wine toned velvet casings
if I can budget it.
There will also be enough to make a matching corset (corpo
baxo/corpino) though they tended to match the kirtle- thus why Alcega
has them in the same pattern quite often ;)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Spanish gown

2008-07-01 Thread michaela de bruce
 Oh! Yes there is a bit of a layout if you look at an extant gown that
 is laid flat:

 Two things bother me about this sleeve. On the site, she mentions that they
 were cut at the top to accomodate the statue, and also they seem to be two
 plain triangles, but on actual gowns the slit is not in the front - or is
 the sleeve simply worn slightly rotated?

She is me, it is my site. I'm really not sure what you mean, the
sleeve is absolutely fine the way it is it is just the lack of the top
of the sleeve head that makes the sleeve look a little odd. What we
see on each side is the outside panel, as it lays so flat is it
possible the underside matches the outer very well.
I also said *probably* cut to fit the satue :)

This is my pattern:
(sorry for the huge text, but I've had this pattern used without any
discussion with me and I'd like people to know who created the
pattern;) If for no other reason than they can ask me why it is shaped
the way it is because it is not normal!)

As you can see they are close but not quite the same laid flat as the
extant sleeves and rather different to the usual. A lovely lady here
created the perfect sleeves for her laurelling ceremony:
Her work is absolutely beautiful and she has gone the route of
adapting Alcega et al to reduce the back fullness.
This lady has the more usual sleeves as well.

I did use the painting of Isabella Clara to work out approximately the
angle the top line (shoulder to wrist) would need to be as you can see
the brocade pattern neatly interrupted in that portrait in particular.
It also shows the back line of the sleeve to be cut in line with the
selvages and the line of the bottom half of the sleeve is angled
inwards from wrist to tip (So I think that pattern would wind up
looking a bit like a kite if opened up).
My sleeve is on the straight at the front because it appears to be so
in the Valois portrait. Another point of difference to the usual (note
the way the sleeve appears to wave somewhat in the Isabela Clara
portrait while in the Valois the sleeves hang very straight (not just
because of the weight of the pearls and jewels either!)

 I looked at the patterns in Alcega yesterday night, but they didn't tell me
 much other than most outer gowns are cut in a semicircle.

Which ones are those? Faldallin as a kind of petticoat and the other
semi-circular patterns are mantles.

And for interest here is the layout I used for my Valois:
The skirt front did not have a join across the front, that is just
because I couldn't fit the entire piece on that part of the layout.
Oh yes, the doublet was adapted from the pattern of the extant jerkin
at the Metropolitan museum:

Michela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Spanish gown

2008-07-01 Thread michaela de bruce
  More like a bat, actually :-) I'll send pics when I can. The Alcega pattern
 really is cool. I couldn't figure it out until I traced it on some scrap
 paper and cut out the shapes. Then it suddenly all made sense :-)

Yes the Alcega is much narrower than most of the examples in art, so
it's not going to be quite the same shape as you would get
extrapolating from the art as I was doing. It also has a gentle curve
up the back of the arm, which again makes me happier about my own

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] More help with Spanish gown

2008-06-30 Thread michaela de bruce
 My problem: every painting of the Spanish style of the time shows unpleated
 skirts, at least in front. Alcega's pattern produces a skirt that would have
 to be pleated (the front panels alone are 28 cm each at the waist, as
 indicated on the pattern, and the back panels are even wider).

As mentioned in my earlier email I follow Alcega, waide waistline and
all. I found the side seams of the skirt matched up nicely to the side
back seams of the bodice which meant the fullness of the back of the
skirt is arranged into a very narrow space. I found if I made the
front narrower and tried getting the seam to the side proper then the
whole skirt sat strangely. That was both with my test and final skirt.
This is not linked to from my main site pages as I am in the process
of shifting all the diaries to a new section.

And last night I found confirmation of my theory:
While I have my doubts that this is Coello (the feel of the painting
is very Netherlandish) and it is post-mortem, the figure with her back
to us is Isabel de Valois (  compare the
orange dress to the one in the above painting) and she appears to have
pleats that correspond to the pleats in my dress:

Except that I do have a *little* more fullness than in the painting!
I'm going to put the pleats into permanent folds by roll pleating
later in the year as I think that will help keep the exess fabric
right in the very back where I want it and the tension in the pleats
will keep the fabric from falling too far forward.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] More help with Spanish gown

2008-06-30 Thread michaela de bruce
 This won't work for me, though. The front panels alone are wide enough
  to go completely around my waist. I'll have to pleat at the sides as
  well as the back.

I scaled the pattern to fit me, so I went by the proportions on the pattern:
I took my length from waist to floor for a guide to the height, then
noted that the side seams matched the side back bodice, used my
measurement for that, then used the angle for the skirt side seams to
get my final measurement. Using the front panel I was able to work out
the back panel.
I suppose the method I used is based very much on the method of
scaling up used in Kohler. I just find it gives a really good and easy
way of scaling up proportionally.

Oh yeah and to add more fun to the mix. None of the extant items has
that tuck in the front of the skirt. Not the two cut down dresses for
the statues, not the little girl's c1600 dress. Alcega does not
mention them.

What I suspect is that the seam that lies across the front of the
faldallin (the half circle petticoats as opposed to gored) became a
fashion feature. It's entirely possible this seam (which falls exactly
as the tucks in the paintings do) crossed over into artwork, or the
skirts were on occasion cut the same way. I don't really think so
though given the pattern repeats in portraits don't bear this out. And
the faldallin are cut so there is no vertical seam in the front.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] More help with Spanish gown

2008-06-30 Thread michaela de bruce

 Since I don't have any understanding of the language this site is in,
  can someone who does, check and see if they tell of the medium for the
  painting?  If it's an oil painting and on panel (wood of some sort)
  it's more likely to be Northern, while canvas was more typically used
  for oil paintings in Italy, Spain, and France in this period.

Oh! That makes sense! Recently I judged an SCA AS contest and in the
household class was a lovely bookbinding display, including a
reprint of an article. In it it discusses that the majority of book
covers from the North are made from wood while most of those from
Italy are made from pasting layers of the first pages together- this
was from a single though large collection. I do wonder if it has
anything to do with bora and other wildlife that eats wood as the few
wooden book covers from Italy are full of such creatures.

I did initially find the image on another site and it is also
available on

Then again as there were several Northern Artists at work in spain at
various times it would not really mean it is invalid (Anthonis Mor,
Juan di Flandres, Peter paul Pourbus etc etc) but it may mean the
painting was meant for a client further north.

Hmmm his painting of the Port of Seville in 1498 also shows the same
looseness of style.
That may have been oil on canvas (according to another poster site).

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Spanish gown

2008-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce
 these tinyurl links work, the site has a tendancy to use
cookies and the like)
N° d'inventaire : MN41;B301
Elisabeth, fille de Henri II, femme de Philippe II, roi d'Espagne
Hard to tell but that is a net and then her hair in braids behind
decorated with pearls.
N° d'inventaire : MN42;B366
Marguerite de France reine de Navarre, fille de Henri II, femme d'Henri
Same net arrangement and someoen afterwards filled in the hair, but
compare these two to the painted portrait from this sketch:
N° d'inventaire : PE255
Marguerite de France, enfant
Clearly hair and pearls, the net is harder to see though, and she may
have a layer of sheer fabric as a base too.
N° d'inventaire : MN342;B297
Dame inconnue
More clearly hair and jewels
N° d'inventaire : MN327;B308
Madame Mouy Saint-Phal (vers 1525-après 1583)
N° d'inventaire : PE254
Jeanne d'Albret, Reine de Navarre (1528-1572)
Another very clear hair and jewel arrangement
N° d'inventaire : INV3254
Elisabeth d'Autriche (1554-1592) Reine de France, femme de Charles IX
And the one closest to what we see on Isabel at least.
N° d'inventaire : MN22;B311
Marguerite de France, fille de François Ier, duchesse de Savoie
N° d'inventaire : MN41;B301
Elisabeth, fille de Henri II, femme de Philippe II, roi d'Espagne
These too are jewels and nets and braided hair.

So smooth skirts at the very least to the side back and hair either
bound with jewelled bands or small hats worn tilted to the front of
the head (often a combination of the two) and hanging sleeves of
several types. Oh and you are lucky! The portrait of Ana does not
having a matching carcanet and girdle! It is so hard finding enough
metal findings to make such matching items... very annoying.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

2008-06-12 Thread michaela de bruce
 I usually just lurk on this list and occasionally ask questions or respond.  
 My question is when making a dress like this one with a close front bodice, 
 where do you put the lacing?  I've read if it's english that it goes in the 
 back, but haven't been able to confirm or deny this.  Also, if you were doing 
 a spanish one, where would the lacing go?  Did they always use lacing in this 
 period or did they also use hookand eye, and if so where did they use 

Side or side back would be my bet. You see either in Italian and
Flemish art of a time just before and after and much later in the
16thC Alcega has a pattern for a kirtle with bodice that has the
closure side back (the front and back bodice pieces are on the fold,
same with front and back of the skirt).
This is the image I mentioned earlier that shows hoops worn by real
people but that has the open gown.
What is interesting about this image is that it shows a high waist.
There is a legend that the hoops came about to hide a pregnancy.
Doesn't this high waist with hoops support this idea rather more than
a regular waisted garment? No idea if it is true or not but I could
believe the rumour started after seeing this particular style!

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Farthingale thoughts

2008-06-10 Thread michaela de bruce
  There's a nice book on Spanish costume, entitled [strangely enough]
  Hispanic Costume 1480- 1530 by R. M. Anderson (1979), where the
  author has pulled together artwork of the period and grouped it by
  garment type to show the development of styles.  It's a great place
  to get started if you're interested in this era.

And it's more than just a picture book;) There are samples of texts
that collaborate what is seen in art.

There are examples real people wearing what the saints do in the
artwork and vice versa- to a degree anyway, there are probably symbols
in the costume to signify these are important people from the past. I
have seen hoops on figures depicting real women but they had the four
panel over skirt on top.

More hoops as per the Salome image:
While the ladies are probably depicted in such a way that they would
read as antique or foreign to the intended audience the hooped skirts
themselves do match to the texts very well. One fashion was to have
hoops contrast in colour as ell as texture. Apparently a deep red
(crimson I think) and green were a favourite combination. This is from
Hispanic Costume and the author comparing the colours in several text
(inventories and wardrobe accounts etc.)

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Re: [h-cost] 1490s Spanish help

2008-06-06 Thread michaela de bruce
  Thanks. That was what I was thinking, but I wanted
   confirmation. You
   can see what I'm working on at www.myspace/ (no .com after that)
Best to copy and paste as, in my mail anyway, the automatic linking
started from the 1 last time ;)

You also need to be a member of myspace (which I am, geek*) to see the
photos. I'm not sure which of the images you are aiming for but at
least one figure in the Herod scene has a close front bodice and if
you haven't already started the bodice that might be a way to go.
Those are examples from 1490-1515 with the closed front and no hoops.
I think the bust portrait you have (also on WGA and by Juan de
Flandres) is of a no hooped sort too.

All the images I've seen show no indication that the gowns open below
the waist of the skirt. Most lacing visibly finishes at the waist,
such as the two main figures in the Herod image.
I have seen, and cannot find it again, a c1500s painting with the
Madonna weeping and what may be side lacing. But I cant find it again
so that may be poor memory.


*lj, blogger, myspace, facebook, yahoo groups**, tribe and lots of
fora online
** Yahoo only just left me back in after a few months of bad coding
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Re: [h-cost] portraits?

2008-06-01 Thread michaela de bruce

  Well, to be fair, there's some small possibility it is a portrait of AB; it
  could just be posthumous.

  ...and, it looks like that may be the case.  It's attributed to Marcus
  Gheeraerts the younger, as a posthumous romanticized portrait.  Since he
  painted for QE once or twice, she may well have asked for it.

Where did you see the attribution?  Just curious as I didn't see it on
the auction.

It's definitely not Anne, she's wearing distinctly post 1600 Spanish
dress so is from the Spanish or Austrian Court.

I'm not sure if I came across this particular portrait on an auction
site or Bildindex. My files are huge and haven't been orderd from
across three HDDs so I'm not sure where I have that one either. I
think it was bildindex but I cannot access the site right now.
But the style is definitely in line with those images I collected a while back.

She is very much in the style of Pantoja de la Cruz:

The softness and roundness of the way her features have been painted
as well as the style of dress.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] portraits?

2008-06-01 Thread michaela de bruce
 No, that wasn't in the auction description--it's the result of Google
  searching.  Not saying that it's definitely true; just that the only places
  I found that attributed the image to anyone said Gheeraerts.
At the bottom it is listed as being by Frans Pourbus :) And it is much
more in his style- Pantoja, Coello and Pourbus at one stage get very
close to each other in some portraits. Coello tends to be more rigid
and restrained while Pourbus much softer and Pantoja generally is
between. But I'm really not sure why it is said to be Anne.
Here's why, it was an inscription added much much later.

I keep thinking all the Italian ladies wore their ruffs open in this
style, many did but some were as close to Spanish in their style as
they could get.
That cross really suggests Spanish though, her hair however is not
piled very high which is also ...

I adore c1600 Spanish and Italian gowns and am definitely making
something in the style soon.
Something like this.

Darnit This thread has seriously derailed my current thoughts
where were in armour and modern costume mode. And I seriously need to
redo links all over the show as Gabrius has departed. But now I have a
whole lot of new links to replace them with :D

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] drafting/scaling corsets to size, was: Corset pattern 1895

2008-04-13 Thread michaela de bruce
  This simple method about enlarging an existing pattern looks good, I gotta 
 try it:-D It's maybe best to make the right proportions (width and height) in 
 photoshop and then print it to the correct size. Or print it in a small size 
 on an A3/A4 printer and let it be photocopied and enlarged.

I've drafted up a pattern of the Effify corset, based on the
photographs available at the time, and scaled up the 1880s corset in
Corsets and Crinolines. I really recommend actually adjusting to
height rather than width as this is going to be more likely to produce
an adjustable pattern for your width. It's much harder to adjust
appropriate breast and hip height than it is do add extra to seams
(split the panels and add there, as there are so many seams in a
corset it's easier to  add only a little to each panel without greatly
affecting the shaping. This is especially true the greater the
difference between your girth vs height and the original girth vs
The 1880s corset is now too short for my body as I've lost weight
which has also dropped my waist which means I wiggle the corset down
too far for the upper half to sit well. I've also now had to remove a
little from the side panels and the front so that the corset sits
close at the back as well as the front. When the bust is too big I
find the back wants to close at the top but it then digs into flesh
too much, it needs to fit closely without squishing over the bust;)

I now suit an 1890s line of corset which is fairly close to what I
have wound up making my alterations to my 1880s corset. I just know it
fits well as it is apart from the adjustments to the upper half.

Michaela de bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Help finding image

2008-04-03 Thread michaela de bruce
Actually the simplest thing is to actually click the link google
provides at the top of the frame. Google images is a search engine,
not a web site and the framed page it shows up initially is not the
url you should point people to.
This is the correct link:
And scroll down.

Michaela de Bruce

On 4/4/08, otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  When a url is large you can shrink it here

  Thank you,

  -Original Message-
  Drea Leeds has the image on her site in Black and White:


  h-costume mailing list

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Re: [h-cost] Knife pleating:

2008-04-02 Thread michaela de bruce
  What I am trying to get down is how to do knife pleating. I have read
  many different instructions on how to make the pleats, but how can one
  acheive a sharp pleat that holds through the whole length to the bottom
  edge? The material I am using is like a lightly woven, delicately
  stiffened, cotton linen with mild sheen to it and can imagine it would
  crease well but how can I get it to hold the shape? I have heard of
  permanent press, is there a chemical used professionally to create
  permanent creases?

I've made several fully kilted or pleated skirts and there are a few
tips I'd recommend.

Make a yoke to hang the pleats from. It's how it was done at the time
and makes it easier and hang better.

These are my three Victorian pleated skirts. The first two are
stitched down at regular intervals down the length of the skirt.
That's how they keep their shape. I pleated as much fabric as I was
able and then treated that as a single pice of fabric that I cat to
shape at the waist and that is how the skirts are rather full.
The third is box pleated and the pleats need to be pressed anew each
time I wear it. But the pleats need to be left open.

Permanent pressers generally only deal with polyester (maybe a few
other man made fibres) as it can be permanently pressed with heat.
Cotton and linen will eventually lose the crisp edge.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Finding information

2008-02-20 Thread michaela de bruce
  The notes in secondary sources should send you to the primary sources, many
  of which you may have access to--see below.

This is probably the first best way to start out:)

I also recommend finding out what Inter-library Loan (ILL) scheme your
local library has. Some books you request will not be allowed out of
another collection but you may just get lucky.

Also google books is a marvelous place for finding transcriptions of
historic texts, I just recently (re)found a few myself:
Basically I did a search for a fabric term that I knew was in use in
the time I was most interested in (sadly my German specific terms
don't turn up much of anything). And using other spelling variants
turns up even more books:)

Project Guttenburg also turns up some interesting works and there are
all manner of catalogues online for similar types of searches which
you can then take to your library's ILL librarian:)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Linen costume question

2008-02-13 Thread michaela de bruce
 Black is pretty ubiquitous amongst the upper class.  The color was one of the 
 more expensive ones to manufacture and maintain.  Check out the Golden Age 
 of Dutch painting for instance.  Also, it was supposedly one of Queen 
 Elizabeth's favorites - next to white.  I'd say your only challenge is the 
 amount you have.  Not quite enough for a whole outfit, but surely a skirt or 
 bodice which could be coordinated with something else.

It's also pretty ubiquitous of the lower classes too:) And middle. But
usually in wool and silk. 5 and 1/3 yards is pretty close to 5m and I
used that much of red linen to make my Cleves ensemble easily:) Big
sleeves and all:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2179604210/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2178837383/ (the skirts rurn
nack but are made to overlap by about 4 when closed yes
perspective is way off in the pic I tried to correct for it but it
didn't work!)

I could probably have used even less because the back is two full
width of the fabric with no shaping. I also have half length sleeves
that the full sleeves pin to.
I just folded my fabric in half and cut gored panels for the front,
with piecing as you see in Alcega and the extant gowns:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2165083275/
I could have topped and tailed the pieces too to avoid that seam, but
I like it:)

Each sleeve length is half the fabric width so I got both sleeves from
about 90cm of fabric.

It worked out as:
3X 1.2m for the skirt (3.6m) (a little too much reallt and I wound up
with some strips left over)
80-90cm for the sleeves (so 4.4-4.5 for skirt and sleeves)
50-60cm for the bodice and half length sleeves.

This was 150cm wide fabric (60) so I was able to use that little. For
a narrower fabric I would have plotted to get more shaping in the back
of the skirt to be able to get my full sleeves or just made a short
sleeved gown only.

I also have 6m of wide wool in cream to get through and I'm thinking
surcoat and kirtle.

Michaela de Bruce
(I have also made full gowns from double to queen sized blankets so
had to learn to use period cutting to make best use of fabric!)
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Linen costume question

2008-02-13 Thread michaela de bruce[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2179604210/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2178837383/ (the skirts rurn
 nack but are made to overlap by about 4 when closed yes
 perspective is way off in the pic I tried to correct for it but it
 didn't work!)

Oy, typos got through.. make that skirts turn back

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Colored shirts in the 16th century?

2008-01-22 Thread michaela de bruce
 What evidence is there that this garment is not a smock, which is an
 outer garment worn over the shirt?  What fiber is it made of? Wool?
 Silk? Linen?  I have many questions that I would like to see answered
 before I would conclude that this is a shirt, i.e., worn next to the
 skin with nothing else under it.

A sleeve fragment found in Worship Street, circa 1501-1599, wool and
silk, 200mm at widest. A fragment of garment probably part of a
sleeve, with gathered cuff and embroidery (smocking). Dark brown weave
wool, fragmentary, with fraying edges.

Others may be able to say for sure if woollens were ever worn directly
against the body.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Cleves/Colgne dres., was Found it! - Colored shirts in the 16th century?

2008-01-21 Thread michaela de bruce

 I love the huge wide belts with enormous buckles. I've never noticed them
 before...such wide ones [that orange quilted one in the 1st pic is fantastic!]
 and worn in this style with the end through the buckle and just hanging. I
 never  really studied this region before. Is it just a regional  thing?

It is indeed a very regional style:) I've made a study to try and work
out how far the style spread and it seems to be pretty confined. I
have looked at the duchies of the area of modern day NorthRhine
Westphalia and it really does show an amazing blend of Dutch and
German styles.

In fact there is an extant buckle in a museum.
You'll need to click the arrows a couple of times:
Belt buckle - master from the rhineland or lower rhineland, working
in the 16th century, about 1530/1560; only a few copies have been
preserved. It was only shown on panels by Bartholom?us Bruyn the elder
and his workshop.

I did find a reference to a pearled belt in the huge inventary, and
they are also worn of this wide buckle variety.

There was also a kind which was worn with a large roundel at the front
held by intricate chain work.
I chose this latter style for my recreation of a later portrait:

I believe the gold belts to be brocaded  narrow ware, in most cases,
as you often see the same lines used to indicate brocade cloth on
these belts:
The lines go widthways which makes sens if they are woven specifically
to that width.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Found it! - Colored shirts in the 16th century?

2008-01-18 Thread michaela de bruce
 Ah Ha!

 I suppose one could argue this isn't a shirt, but I've never seen an under 
 dress with this kind of cuff...

This type of sleeve appears quite often in dress of Cologne. They are
separate sleeves (and here are made with a damask) and come in a
variety of styles and are definitely not underwear. But I suspect that
what is seen at the neck is a partlet.
I don't think this shows a dress and undersleeve but it shows this
sort of cuff treatment is associated with outerlayers.

The most common type is very fitted and usually of a piled fabric. But
here are even some with short fur turnbacks.

There are some Saxon images that show what may be a coloured shirt
type garment.  (Ignore
the text, I think the person who told me about the painting was
talking about the gown not the inner layer.)
And another of one of the Emperors but in his case (painted terracotta
bust) it looks like there is a high necked shirt underneath.

Michaela de Bruce
(Cleves/Cologne is my pet area and I have been trawling through
appropriate extant texts to find information. So far the undersleeves
appear quite often in one huge inventary with the goller, suggesting
they were ordered together and have a similar function- warmth and
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Re: [h-cost] OT: Keeping hair in bun

2007-12-17 Thread michaela de bruce
 I had a book signing recently. In preparation, I pinned my hair up in a bun,
 only to have the whole mass fall out of its pins soon after arrival. Do any
 of you have any sure-fire suggestions as to keeping ones hair in a bun until
 the owner of the hair wishes to remove the pins, and not the hair itself?

A lot of it comes down to getting the pins at a certain angle and it
is so very difficult to try and explain rather than just do!

I have extremely fine hair that has always been prone to being oily
which is one issue and now tends to dry, which is another issue though
makes it equally difficult to do other styles;) My hair is to my hips
and a number of different lengths which also can help or hinder
different styles.

I tend to prefer to use a couple of chop-sticks but the trick is to
start with the stick perpendicular to the top edge of the bun push it
through bun and when it hits the scalp scoop some hair while turning
the stick on a slight angle (say from right down to left) and then
wiggle it to pick up hair either side of its path and then turn the
end up to emerge out the other side of the bun. Then take the other do
the same but try and anchor the first stick (pick up hair in front and
behind the stick) and it's best to have it no more than 45% off angle
of the first stick.
It also helps to try and anchor hair and sticks and hair elastic.

Same issue with pins. I take some hair from the top of the edge of the
bun then scoop the pin forward and then under to pick up more hairs so
there is a less tension on a wider area of scalp.

You do need to experiment and experiment each time you do your hair
because you will occasionally pick up a single hair in one spot which
will hurt like heck!

Also if you are using bobby pins get some really good salon quality ones!
These are used by professionals and I just got a 250gm container of
them. Supper strong and with a long plastic tip that really will not
come off. Their grip is very strong but they are cut very nicely so
won't shred your hair. I was introduced to them as an extra on Xena et
al. and spent ages trying to track them down. Luckily my mother is a
hairdresser so she can get them at trade price:)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Another German Gown

2007-10-08 Thread michaela de bruce
Katharina again in an even better view.
 Scroll down to Salomé con la cabeza de San Juan Bautista #12 I can't tell if
 it is lace or pearlwork or both.
 Love the sleeves.

Given the way lace developed it is highly unlikely to be lace (It was
still rather geometric even in the later 16thC and delicate foliate
designs, as opposed to scrolling foliate, are later still). Also the
Germans were rather less fond of lace than the English, French,
Lowlanders, Spanish and Italians. What little you see later tends to
be understated.

 That is a super super super fine leather . if it is real and not just an
 artist interpretation. H  Does anyone know of an inventory of
 costumes and accessories for Katharina?
Not just artistic licence:

But Cranach did tend to be a little creative with his art. Sometimes
the rings under the glove  sit higher on the finger than a ring over
the glove.

Ah Pintura. I keep forgetting you despite the many hours I have spent
wasting bandwidth over you.

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Re: [h-cost] Another German Gown

2007-10-08 Thread michaela de bruce
 The hemd is painted to be very sheer and there looks to be something very 
 sheer under the forearm

I'm not sure that it is. It looks more like there was a belt
originally that was painted over. The curve matches the way he painted
them in other artworks.

 but the angle of the white speckle could be pearlwork on a sheer material or
 maybe the floral lace was made in this era.
That latter is just for Italian laces but it does have lots of extant examples.

It may well have been overpainted at a later date.

Chranach was churning these ladies out like nobodies business it seems
because they were a good seller. This one is a particularly rushed job
compared to some of his finer more carefully painted figures.

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Re: [h-cost] Duchess Katherine von Mecklenburg. was: Enough!!!!!..... and a return

2007-10-07 Thread michaela de bruce
 It does indeed look like damask to me, also, but I'm not an expert.  Also,
 the second red stripe - it looks to me like it's been laid over the damask
 and reverse appliqued (design cut out of the red and stitched rather than
 the yellow being applied on top of the red).  What do you think?  It's a
 beautiful gown and hope to see pics of the finished product.

The gold on these gowns typically depict a gold brocade. As in the
metal not a shade of yellow, which is why I tend to go for the damasks
bordered in velvet much easier to find good modern alternatives.

A reverse applique would be very wasteful of fabric especially in a
tiem where the bulk of the cost of a garment was in the material not
the making.
If you click to get to the larger image you'll see the pattern inside
the scroll work on the red is deliberate and made to fit the scrolls.
I've been hunting for a clearer image but can't  find one tonight.

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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?

2007-10-04 Thread michaela de bruce
 What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?

 A few pins.

Now my other dummy, my full length these are my curves (OMGargh!)
dummy is wearing a non historical item that is still in the process of
being made. And no I can't say what that is. Suffice to say she is
practically nekkid at this point because I really am at the very
beginning stages!
She does though have a full length body suit stitched in place so she
can have more defined butt cheeks and breasts which will help in
drafting trousers and other body suits later.

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Re: [h-cost] chain of office for Elizabethan

2007-09-18 Thread michaela de bruce
  portraits with them wearing a chain of office like we saw in the
  Tudor time
  period; only single chains with medallions hanging.  Does any one
  know of a
  portrait that would display what he is looking for or had this
  fashion just
  disappeared by Elizabeth's reign?

I just found this last night:
or the original link:

Portrait of Sir Thomas Radcliffe, 3rd Earl of Sussex (1526/7-83) ,
three-quarter-length, in the robes, collar and George of the Order of
the Garter, holding the Lord Chamberlain's white rod
The present portrait can be counted among those that post-date his
appointment as Lord Chamberlain in 1572, since he is depicted here
holding the white rod of this office.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Costume brag books online

2007-09-06 Thread michaela de bruce
 Suzi's peacock feather cloak reminds me that I've been meaning to ask
 if anyone else has online costume brag books they'd like to share.
 It's nice to see the work and the faces behind the email addresses.
 Way back when h-costume first started (mid-90s) we had to plan lunch
 in a local restaurant  bring photo albums.

Yep:) Since 1999 but it's shifted about and had a few makeovers;)

Now off to go look at the links before me.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Tudor sleeves again (sort of)

2007-08-28 Thread michaela de bruce
 I am working on a wedding gown with
 raglan sleeves; the neckline looks like
 some of the examples cited within the
 past week. So, I'm wondering what to
 do when you love the look, but are worried
 about the sleeves sliding too far off the
 shoulders. Would you narrow the top of
 the sleeve (that makes up the over-the-
 shoulder part of the neckline)? This is a
 modern-style dress with simple princess
 lines, done in silk matelasse underlined with
 silk organza. Thanks a million.

Make sure the body side seams go far up and as close to the armpit as
is possible. The neckline can come right out the edges of the shoulder
this way. What keeps the sleeves up in my 16thC garments is this
combined with the neckline being all cut on the straight, so there is
no stretch to allow the sleeves to be pulled down. Even the extremely
wide neckline of my Anna Meyer dress doesn't fall down despite being
too wide. And with my better cut dresses I have full range of motion
in my arms.

Narrowing the top of the sleeve section will only pull the body up and
make a higher neckline, you can play around with the angle of the join
between body and sleeve to get a snugger fit.

How far have you got into the making of this dress? If you have
already cut the fashion fabric to size you may need to resort to stay
tapes at the neckline and maybe elsewhere. I have used elastic stays
with success. You make a case for them or herringbone sitch around
them (but not into the elastic) then tack one end, pull the other to
fit tack that down, trim of the excess. The area will gather a little
when not worn but fit smoothly when worn.
Described a little more succinctly here;)

Michaela de bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Re: Updates to my Site

2007-07-31 Thread michaela de bruce
 I know a lady that is looking for the painting of a german frau who is 
 wearing triangular shaped pieced bits that make up the different bands on her 
 sleeves?  I am not well versed in German Ren, but I am guessing 1525-50.  Her 
 dress is dark, IIRC with these distictive red and yellow  parts (kinda pennet 
 shaped) sewn together to make the bands on the sleeves and perhaps some on 
 the plasteron. (but I can not trust my memory).  Do you have that piccie?  Is 
 there one of her whole dress?
 This Honorable Lady would like to recreate the dress and wonders if the piece 
 work on banded on the skirt too.

I do actually have that image in my files:) And I can probably find it
again today. It's an unknown girl by Lucas Cranach and she is in a
really dark maroony-wine colour dress. On one sleeve she has some
pearl embroidery outlined in fine gold thread. She's on my I would
really like to make that one day list, but I have other things first
list;) I don't think it is full length, but I see no reason to not do
the hem the same way. It would look equally fine without it as well.

 Thanks for your time and effort and your site ROCKS!

Thank you:) It's going to undergo a cosmetic change as well, probably
incorporating my style sheets from my personal costume section but
altered to suit the nature of the topics.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Machine versus thread

2007-07-30 Thread michaela de bruce
  I just bought a new machine and the salesman said
  Gutermann thread is
  horrible and recommended against using it in my new
  machine. He recommended
  some thread (I don't remember the name, started with
  a M). Of course, I
  have 50 colors of Gutermann.

 probably Metrosene, and probably spelled wrong. :)

Metrosene is fantastic in my Husquvarna of the late 50s/early 60s. It
is also especially good for modern fabrics with a high
polyester/nylon/lycra content as it won't shred. So the fabric you are
sewing with also plays a part in how well a thread stands up. Also
needles. Sometimes the eye will be still rough and cuts the thread so
sometimes the same makes size and type of needle in the same pack can
lead to shredding.
I have had no trouble with Gutermann cottons in my machine except for
the black. And that goes for their poly thread as well. I wonder if it
has anything to do with the dye being corrosive on the thread at all.

Michaela de Bruce
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[h-cost] Updates to my site, input desired

2007-07-30 Thread michaela de bruce
Kia ora all,

I now have time and resources to update my website. I have just
finally updated the Extant garments page under the Spanish section as
well as a list of links to recreations of Spanish dress of the 16thC. (some links from this
list I believe?)
I am about to prettify both the Saya Espanola and Frazzled Frau
sections and also update them both. Better spellchecking being one
must do;)

Does anyone have any particular desire for the Frazzled Frau section?
In terms of content I mean. I am thinking about looking at a
geographical page to show some basic styles from the main cities for
instance. It won't be comprehensive but it might help in a first step.
Possibly with a map to refer to.

If I do a page of links to recreations it will only be to pages of
people who have notes and/or a dress diary. There are so many
wonderful recreations out there that it can be intimidating or
overwhelming just to look at picture after picture. So if you know of
any dress diary/information pages please let me know and I'll start
bookmarking (please feel free to do this off list as it may clutter
the list up.)

My own costume section needs updating too but that will have to wait
as I have no pictures of recent work that really shows it off well.
And I need to get permission to use images;)

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] The Golden Age(film)/Dracula

2007-07-13 Thread michaela de bruce

 Really? What period?
I'd have to dig up the reference, but the robe and particularly the hair
(yes, the butt-hair) were based on 15th-century Romanian burial costume.

I'm pretty sure the book of the costumes said they were based on
Kabuki costume rather than anything European. That said Lucy's wedding
dress I'm sure was based on a portrait in 20,000 Years of Fashion and
is early-mid 17thC. I just saw it again recently online I also
found a similar painting which shows it was a fashion of some
particular place and time. And the book said it was based on something
And the similar portrait:

Micahela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

Tracht is clothing, and generally clothing of a specific place (now
meaning folk dress)  Trachtenbucher of the 16thC were books of dress
of different lands. What is the context, and what is it in a Ducth,
German or Danish book? It may mean to dress the dish;). I've never
know it to mean to try.

In Dutch it means to try now (according to babelfish anyway), so the
context is going to be very important.

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Re: [h-cost] Sofie in the garden at Gammel Estrup.

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

The nicest picture i got from Gammel Estrup. Just wanted to

Exquisite Bjarne:) I was a little busy when you had posted the
different ways you were going to trim the gown and I'm pleased you
decided on what you did.

I really should get back to my own red silk gown;) I need to wear is a
week tomorrow!
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[h-cost] Latest project, red and black German renaissance

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

Hello all,

As mentioned in May I was asked to join the Order of the Laurel in the
SCA and have been working on (and stressing over) my gown for the
I have at least got images and progress to show, but won't have much
more until after as time is pressing (I wear it a week tomorrow) and
there probably won't be time for uploading and editing of images. It
feels a little weird posting about an unfinished project;) I am
writing up my documentation at the same time so I should have that
after the event too.
Inspiration portrait.
For a reverse chronological order of everything so far,

Photos of progress so far:
Kranz (wreath), skirt laid flat and sleeves in pieces, testing fit of bodice
Fit of bodice with guards and the pearling of my Haube (caul) and how
much I had to undo...

I'm worried about the underskirt and ruffs not being done at this
stage, but everything else is under control. Except my ceremony. Which
I need to organise later today.

Michaela (SCA Willemyne van Nymegen)
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[h-cost] Latest project, red and black

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

Hello all,

(Sorry if this goes through twice, it appears as if my first mail is
stuck in my sent folder in gmail)

As mentioned in May I was asked to join the Order of the Laurel in the
SCA and have been working on (and stressing over) my gown for the
I have at least got images and progress to show, but won't have much
more until after as time is pressing (I wear it a week tomorrow) and
there probably won't be time for uploading and editing of images. It
feels a little weird posting about an unfinished project;) I am
writing up my documentation at the same time so I should have that
after the event too.
Inspiration portrait.
For a reverse chronological order of everything so far,

Photos of progress so far:
Kranz (wreath), skirt laid flat and sleeves in pieces, testing fit of bodice
Fit of bodice with guards and the pearling of my Haube (caul) and how
much I had to undo...

I'm worried about the underskirt and ruffs not being done at this
stage, but everything else is under control. Except my ceremony. Which
I need to organise later today.

Michaela (SCA Willemyne van Nymegen)
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Re: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

Bjarne, do you know of any German, Danish or Dutch food called Trachten?
I have heard this word to mean to try or try to
but several who are trying to translate a 1500s Germanic recipe book thinks
that is is a food of some sort.

Tracht is clothing, and generally clothing of a specific place (now
meaning folk dress)  Trachtenbucher of the 16thC were books of dress
of different lands. What is the context, and what is it in a Ducth,
German or Danish book? It may mean to dress the dish;). I've never
know it to mean to try.

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Re: [h-cost] WOT Bjarne,

2007-06-28 Thread michaela de bruce

In Dutch it means to try now (according to babelfish anyway), so the
context is going to be very important.

If it's Rumpolt (which I use quite often in experimenting with
vegetable dishes) it's a noun anyway, not a verb.
Further down it's taken to mean food of many nations.

The page on the farmer's banquet suggests it means tradition.

I think it may have to do with dressing the dish. I didn't see
anything under the fish section that suggested the dishes were from
different nations. But I did see a sauce and other flavourings. There
was one recipe that was in a turkish manner but that was the only
one I saw specified. But then the entire book is not translated there
so there may be more regional dishes than there appears. Either way
fits in with the usage of the term in clothing.

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Re: [h-cost] Inner Stiffening

2007-06-05 Thread michaela de bruce

Is buckram washable?  If not, what do you recommend I use to add some
stiffness to the collar?

Buckram; never get it wet! I just recently managed to reshape my
Stickelchen (headdress like Anne of Cleves wore) after it was deformed
from water from the hoses putting out our housefire.  It has still
stretched but most of the shape is fine. But I also have a layer of
felt and silk over mine so fine ripples can't really be noticed.

I would recommend hair canvas. It's possibly called horse hair canvas
in places but it's not relaly horse hair.. at least not only... It's a
mottled grey colour and is reasonably easy to get. It's light weight
and washable. After washing it loses a little stiffness but it sound
slike it will still be quite ideal for a light linen.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend

2007-05-29 Thread michaela de bruce

Goodness!  A house fire sounds dreadful! Good to hear that you survived,

I was extremely lucky to have been away from home, I normally would
have been in bed when it happened.

And congrats on the impending elevation (welcome to the Grove and all that
g).  The gown should be lovely--the inspiration portrait is a new one to
me, but then, I'm only slightly familiar with 16th century German styles.

Thank you:)

It's a rather unique regional style, I'm a bit known now fr a *slight*
obsesion with the Cleves style and the whole North Rhine- Westphalian
style. The one in the portrait is one I have loved for a few years now
and was thrilled to see a large size copy of it online.

--Sue, who sometimes looks remarkably like someone named Maire, who is an
SCA member with all sorts of Official Alphabet Soup (for late-period
embroidery, primarily

*grin* Willemyne has only a few letters after her name one of which
already looks like OL;) Luckily that has changed to OGL! (Order of the
Golden Lily rather than Order of the Lily.) I really need to decide on
the translation of Mistress though. I need to decide on the Dutch or
German translations.

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Re: [h-cost] What R U doing this weekend

2007-05-28 Thread michaela de bruce

Unfortunately this weekend was spent moving into a rental
accomodation. We had a house fire in April and have only just been
able to find and move into a temporary house while ours is rebuilt.[EMAIL PROTECTED]/sets/72157600199783344/
You may be able to tell that there is a fair bit of work to do and we
are probably looking at moving back around Christmas.

Next weekend (which is a holiday weekend here in NZ, I think the whole
Commonwealth, Queen's Birthday Weekend) I will be sewing up a storm
for my elevation to the Order of the Laurel as I have not really had a
chance to sit and sew for it yet. I have my bodice and sleeves and an
accessory patterned, the skirt is really simple but time consuming and
I am thinking of making a cloak as well.
This is the inspiration portrait, and if you click the tag
midwinter you will find all my posts about it.

Michaela de Bruce
Yes my costumes were in the house, no they weren't burnt but they were
smoke andheat damaged to some degree but most have been salvageable.
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Re: [h-cost] lacing rings

2007-05-23 Thread michaela de bruce

What do you guys use for lacing rings? I just found this vendor:

It depends. For large meant to be seen rings I use 13mm brass rings
from the curtain section of Spotlight/Harvey furnishing etc. Anywhere
you can buy everything to make a curtain. They come in several sizes
and treatments:
They are about 15c each NZ the size that I get.

If I have a need for smaller rings I buy solid brass rig rings from a
fishing tackle shop.
They wind up 50cNZ each here.
These are stainless steel but you can get them in brass, I just have a
hard enough time finding them online at all;) Go to a tackle shop and
ask for solid brass rig rings, a goos storeperson will know what you
are after.

I have used the eyes of hooks and eyes in the past too. It really
depends on how big the ring needs to be.

(about to use some of said large rings for my upcoming SCA garb project.)
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Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats

2007-05-22 Thread michaela de bruce

It was clear.  I was just hoping for a reference for a stiffened
buckram.  It seems likely that there was such a thing, but I haven't
yet come across a reference that would certainly establish it.

Queen Mary's Wardrobe accounts, I'm not sure it that is the book I
listed (privy purse accounts for her as a princess and maybe later) or
if there was a seperate book of just her wardrobe. I'm going to be
looking through the privy purse accounts. past buckram is definitely
mentioned, I wonder if there are any more..
I was wrong too! It's not for a farthingale, I think I remembered that
because I thought it would be most odd to have a farthingale stiffened
with glue) it's for a collar of a loose gown ..the collar lined with
past buckram 1558 Some of the texts I mentioned last time spelt paste
as past too. I think all of them actually;)

Paste board was made of paper, so that's a different thing.

True but: when they are used for a similar item they may have similar
properties, though I can see buckram (if it is stiffened) having an
edge when it comes to curved shapes. The texts didn't specify paste,
so perhaps the context was enough to diferenciate buckram from glued
buckram, or the buckram bought was later glued, or the buckram was
used unglued.

Oh and of course I agree we cannot presume that our modern use of
words matches up to what was used in the past and that the same word
meant the same thing at all times in the past. I'd like to know what
the link is between the use of the terms. Is it just and English term
as well? I would like to do some hunting in texts of other lands.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats

2007-05-21 Thread michaela de bruce

John Oldland, in a paper on the medieval woolen industry in England
that he just gave at the International Congress on Medieval Studies,
mentions buckram as a type of cheap woolen fabric.

I would be a bit surprised that buckram was wool in the 16thcC,
especially given how often it was used to line gowns of an equivalent
nature and similar time frame to those extant items lined in linen and
silk in Patterns of Fashion.
That said if he was doing research of a much earlier period (as
indicated by the event he spoke at) I can see how the term would
change over time and it would be interesting to track the changes over
time and to find out when it came to mean a glue stiffened material

Do you have a reference from the 16th century that points to buckram
as a fabric stiffened with glue?  I'd be very interested.

Queen Mary's wardrobe accounts apparently mentions use of a paste
buckram, it's listed in The Tudor Tailor with that reference. I tried
searching Drea Leeds searchable version but it only lists buckram for
the same item not that it is stiffened with paste.
I wrote that it appears to have been specified when it was stiffened
with glue as opposed to not, not that it was always a stiffened
material. Sorry if that was a little unclear.
I'm having a hunt through these two, paste board is mentioned in the
Revels books as well as fine black buckram. It also lists cotton and
linen for lining so I would suppose buckram is a very specific kind of
weave/weight/treatment etc. A lot of the buckram mentioned in the
revels is bought in pieces too and in another book used for
escuncheons while paste board was used for stars for decoration.

Wow the revels book even specifies 56, 000 spangles used in one
revel blimey.
And now I'm going mad downloading these books to read at leisure over
the next week or so when I can't be online too often.

Oh one more:
Bokeram; Buckram a description of making it is in MS Sloan 73, f. 214
So that might be worthwhile looking up as well. I did a google search
for it but couldn't find anything leading directly to it but it is
probably in the British Library.

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Hats

2007-05-17 Thread michaela de bruce

I've heard people talk about making hats out of theatrical buckram. But I didn't think 
that Buckram, as we know it, existed in the 16th century. If not, then what DID exist as 
Buckram? What were the internal structure of hats made out of?

As far as I can tell there is buckram (buckeram, bokeram etc) which is
a linen cloth and then there is stiffened buckram (buckeram, bokeram
etc) which is stiffened with glue in much the same way as modern
buckram is. There is probably a difference in glue type and weave

Bokeram as a lining for a dress:
Part XII: Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York: Entries #32 through 41.
Itmthe same day to Henry Bryan for xvij yerdes of blake velvet
for a gowne for the Quene at x s. vj d. the yerde viij li. xviij s. vj
d. Itm for xiij yerdes of blake satten delivered to Johnson for a
riding gowne for the Quene at ix s. the yerde C xvij s. Itm for a
yerde di quarter of blake velvet for an edge and cuffes for the same
gowne at xj s. vj d. the yerde xiij s. Itm for vij yerdes di of blake
bokeram for lynyng of the same gowne at ix d. the yerde v s. viij d.
ob. Itm for a nayle of sarcenet for fentes for the same gowne iiij d.
and for an elle quarter of canvase for lynyng of the same gowne vj d.
Sm{a} --xv li. xiiij s. xj d. ob.
The style at the time doesn't suggest that this would be stiffened
buckram. The canvas above could also be for interlining the body for

Canvas is also mentioned for a lining:
Part VIII: Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York: Entries #1 through 7.
 Itm for upper bodyeng sleving and lynyng of a gowne of blake velvet
for the Quene of Scottes xx d. Itm for canvas to the same iij d.
(btw I love this  Itm for a grete basket for the Quenes stuf vj d
for her stuff)

Mary's wardrobe accounts apparently include a fine paste buckram for a
farthingale I think

Michaela de Bruce
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Re: [h-cost] Bildindex is in English now!

2007-05-09 Thread michaela de bruce

I tried it and got nowhere.  The search engine doesn't seem to recognize terms 
in English - you know, really esoteric and unusual ones like knit, embroidery, 

No, as far as I can tell it just helps you navigate to the right part
of the site and then you still need to know the corrent spelling for
cities, ie Nürnberg rather than Nurenberg. It also helps you know what
button at the top of the image to click to make it larger if you don't
know enough German.

I spotted the flag a while back but have gotten used to (especially)
German museum sites having a very brief English section*. I didn't
really bother to use it as I figured the mueum sections would not be
translated and those are what I use more than anything else.

There are guides online for what search term to look for. But I'm not
sure I've seen on that explains what the terms mean:
This is a guide to what the main museums offer, I have on occasion
translated some sections in my journal.
Helpful as well.
Some of the terms used are fairly easy to interpret; textil=textiles
some not so email=enamel, elfbein= ivory I think.

The simplest way to search for costume of a particular time is to go
to the Expert Search, plug in dates to the obvious fields then in the
Gestamindex box type in mann or frau to find images that include men
or women. You can also sort by region, but if you keep your date
fields to a few decades you can usually have enough to choose from
without having to go through thousands of images.

Michaela de Bruce
*Which I perfectly understand and I would expect from a place where
English is not the main language!
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