Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
Hi, I checked all I could find out (year 1999 mostly, then something from 2000), but didn't find an answer to what I'm searching for. You were discussing bit different things. Maybe I just missed some important post? So were the grandes assiettes sleeves pictured in one colour, and the body in another, one garment? I read the Adrien Harmand's book and it semms she thinks it was one garment. Do you have this monograph from Musee de Tissus? How it's called? Where can I get it? I am very curious about the theory of the under vest. I've done various pourpoints of this style, but as I didn't find any info on how the chest wast stuffed, I just put two small cushions on either side of the chest, hidden by the lining, which made the large chest in the end. This technique works well for quilted garments, but not so well for anything without stuffing, because the soft fabric will dip in at the front opening. See my last charles de Blois attempt here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150367778803721.352533.294387883720type=3 Just one observation I have to follow on some of the 12 year old discussions - I think the grande assiette sleeve is easy to construct once you know how. You can do any form of sleeve, whether tight fitting, bag, or wide at the bottom. I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? Zuzana _ www.sartor.cz --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:56 AM In a monograph published by the Musee des Tissus (Lyons), the Charles de Blois pourpoint is conjectured to be worn over a vest-like thing that held all the stuffing for the fashionable high puff chest. This particular example has the sleeves body of the gament all in the same fabric. We discussed this pourpoint, the account books from the Dukes of Lorraine, Jeanne d'Arc the records from her trial waaay-back. Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
Beautiful, Zuzana!! Is that your fabric as well? I seem to recall you were going to be making reproductions of it. Stunning! Astrida On Dec 6, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Hi, I checked all I could find out (year 1999 mostly, then something from 2000), but didn't find an answer to what I'm searching for. You were discussing bit different things. Maybe I just missed some important post? So were the grandes assiettes sleeves pictured in one colour, and the body in another, one garment? I read the Adrien Harmand's book and it semms she thinks it was one garment. Do you have this monograph from Musee de Tissus? How it's called? Where can I get it? I am very curious about the theory of the under vest. I've done various pourpoints of this style, but as I didn't find any info on how the chest wast stuffed, I just put two small cushions on either side of the chest, hidden by the lining, which made the large chest in the end. This technique works well for quilted garments, but not so well for anything without stuffing, because the soft fabric will dip in at the front opening. See my last charles de Blois attempt here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150367778803721.352533.294387883720type=3 Just one observation I have to follow on some of the 12 year old discussions - I think the grande assiette sleeve is easy to construct once you know how. You can do any form of sleeve, whether tight fitting, bag, or wide at the bottom. I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? Zuzana _ www.sartor.cz --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:56 AM In a monograph published by the Musee des Tissus (Lyons), the Charles de Blois pourpoint is conjectured to be worn over a vest-like thing that held all the stuffing for the fashionable high puff chest. This particular example has the sleeves body of the gament all in the same fabric. We discussed this pourpoint, the account books from the Dukes of Lorraine, Jeanne d'Arc the records from her trial waaay-back. Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
You know, Zuzana, a thought-- Looking at your photos again, it strikes me that it almost looks like two different fabrics, because the body is on the straight grain and the sleeves are on the bias, and they reflect light differently. I always hesitate to put thoughts into long-ago minds, but it doesn't seem unlikely to me that someone would have seen a similar effect and decided to take the next step, actually using a different color. Astrida On Dec 6, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Hi, I checked all I could find out (year 1999 mostly, then something from 2000), but didn't find an answer to what I'm searching for. You were discussing bit different things. Maybe I just missed some important post? So were the grandes assiettes sleeves pictured in one colour, and the body in another, one garment? I read the Adrien Harmand's book and it semms she thinks it was one garment. Do you have this monograph from Musee de Tissus? How it's called? Where can I get it? I am very curious about the theory of the under vest. I've done various pourpoints of this style, but as I didn't find any info on how the chest wast stuffed, I just put two small cushions on either side of the chest, hidden by the lining, which made the large chest in the end. This technique works well for quilted garments, but not so well for anything without stuffing, because the soft fabric will dip in at the front opening. See my last charles de Blois attempt here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150367778803721.352533.294387883720type=3 Just one observation I have to follow on some of the 12 year old discussions - I think the grande assiette sleeve is easy to construct once you know how. You can do any form of sleeve, whether tight fitting, bag, or wide at the bottom. I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? Zuzana _ www.sartor.cz --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:56 AM In a monograph published by the Musee des Tissus (Lyons), the Charles de Blois pourpoint is conjectured to be worn over a vest-like thing that held all the stuffing for the fashionable high puff chest. This particular example has the sleeves body of the gament all in the same fabric. We discussed this pourpoint, the account books from the Dukes of Lorraine, Jeanne d'Arc the records from her trial waaay-back. Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
I, for one, would be very interested in your proposed tutorial. Ann in CT Just one observation I have to follow on some of the 12 year old discussions - I think the grande assiette sleeve is easy to construct once you know how. You can do any form of sleeve, whether tight fitting, bag, or wide at the bottom. I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
I've never seen a garment like this ( or I've never noticed one like it). It sure makes the male figure look broad shoulders and narrow of waist. Very upright and proud model. What do you call this garment and what period is it? Italian maybe? Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine From: astr...@schaefferarts.com Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 12:57:38 -0500 To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer You know, Zuzana, a thought-- Looking at your photos again, it strikes me that it almost looks like two different fabrics, because the body is on the straight grain and the sleeves are on the bias, and they reflect light differently. I always hesitate to put thoughts into long-ago minds, but it doesn't seem unlikely to me that someone would have seen a similar effect and decided to take the next step, actually using a different color. Astrida On Dec 6, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: Hi, I checked all I could find out (year 1999 mostly, then something from 2000), but didn't find an answer to what I'm searching for. You were discussing bit different things. Maybe I just missed some important post? So were the grandes assiettes sleeves pictured in one colour, and the body in another, one garment? I read the Adrien Harmand's book and it semms she thinks it was one garment. Do you have this monograph from Musee de Tissus? How it's called? Where can I get it? I am very curious about the theory of the under vest. I've done various pourpoints of this style, but as I didn't find any info on how the chest wast stuffed, I just put two small cushions on either side of the chest, hidden by the lining, which made the large chest in the end. This technique works well for quilted garments, but not so well for anything without stuffing, because the soft fabric will dip in at the front opening. See my last charles de Blois attempt here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150367778803721.352533.294387883720type=3 Just one observation I have to follow on some of the 12 year old discussions - I think the grande assiette sleeve is easy to construct once you know how. You can do any form of sleeve, whether tight fitting, bag, or wide at the bottom. I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? Zuzana _ www.sartor.cz --- On Tue, 12/6/11, Cin cinbar...@gmail.com wrote: From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 1:56 AM In a monograph published by the Musee des Tissus (Lyons), the Charles de Blois pourpoint is conjectured to be worn over a vest-like thing that held all the stuffing for the fashionable high puff chest. This particular example has the sleeves body of the gament all in the same fabric. We discussed this pourpoint, the account books from the Dukes of Lorraine, Jeanne d'Arc the records from her trial waaay-back. Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
So this was your outfit I was admiring on FB. Wow, that is nice. And yes, I would be interested in the tutorial. Kimiko On Dec 6, 2011, at 2:11 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote: I will be writing a detailed tutorial on how to do this once I get to it. Would you folks be interested? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
In a monograph published by the Musee des Tissus (Lyons), the Charles de Blois pourpoint is conjectured to be worn over a vest-like thing that held all the stuffing for the fashionable high puff chest. This particular example has the sleeves body of the gament all in the same fabric. We discussed this pourpoint, the account books from the Dukes of Lorraine, Jeanne d'Arc the records from her trial waaay-back. Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Grandes assiettes - single or double layer
Hi there, I am searching for evidence for the grandes assiettes sleeve construction from the 14th and 15th centuries, the type with two coloured garment - sleeves in one colour, bodice in another. Like this: http://www.cottesimple.com/blois_and_sleeves/grande_assiette/Sachsenspiegel_large.jpg Do you know whether this was one garment made from two fabrics, or two separate garments, the upper being a vest-sort of thing? I know this is often discussed, but has anyone already found an answer to this question? Thanks a lot, Zuzana ___ Sartor...all about silk. Historic fabrics from natural materials. http://www.sartor.cz ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
