[h-cost] 1630s suit - breech waist
Dear all I am making a suit for a friend, based on the 1630s engravings by Bosse - doublet and breeches, since he already has a shirt and another friend is making his collar and cuffs. What I can't work out is the waist of the breeches: in Historical Costume in Detail, the development seems to be from points laced through the doublet to the outside, forming decorative bows (which remain after their functional job is gone) to using solid metal hooks on the inside of the doublet. None of this sits with the informal wear shown in Bosse, where the breeches are shown sitting at the natural waist or below the paunch since the doublet is generally worn open from mid-chest. Would they be gathered onto a solid waistband and then buttoned (as the flies were buttoned) or was there a 'drawstring' type option? Bucknell shows both styles, from the very wide 'bag' breeches to the narrower 'spanish' breeches, as being fastened to the doublet lining - but wouldn't that give (being blunt) the wearer a bit of a wedgy, especially since they are required for fencing? I hope that someone who has worn or made a pair before has some feedback on their comfort - it's not a style I've ever worn myself and I ain't fond of modern trousers either! :-) Thanks again - it's nice to be doing something different and a new type of research.. Katherine S. A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1630s suit - breech waist
At 15:19 05/05/2006, you wrote: Dear all I am making a suit for a friend, based on the 1630s engravings by Bosse - doublet and breeches, since he already has a shirt and another friend is making his collar and cuffs. What I can't work out is the waist of the breeches: in Historical Costume in Detail, the development seems to be from points laced through the doublet to the outside, forming decorative bows (which remain after their functional job is gone) to using solid metal hooks on the inside of the doublet. None of this sits with the informal wear shown in Bosse, where the breeches are shown sitting at the natural waist or below the paunch since the doublet is generally worn open from mid-chest. Would they be gathered onto a solid waistband and then buttoned (as the flies were buttoned) or was there a 'drawstring' type option? Bucknell shows both styles, from the very wide 'bag' breeches to the narrower 'spanish' breeches, as being fastened to the doublet lining - but wouldn't that give (being blunt) the wearer a bit of a wedgy, especially since they are required for fencing? I hope that someone who has worn or made a pair before has some feedback on their comfort - it's not a style I've ever worn myself and I ain't fond of modern trousers either! :-) Thanks again - it's nice to be doing something different and a new type of research.. Katherine S. There are good clear patterns in Cut of Men's Clothes by Norah Waugh, and in Patterns of Fashion 1560-1620 by Janet Arnold. You will find the Arnold the most helpful I think. (You can lace the breeches to the doublet on the inside, without the bows showing on the outside, or you can make hooks and bars to join them If your friend is planning on being particularly energetic, a theatre trick worth noting is to sew the hooks on so they hang from a short piece of elastic, sewing them to the doublet, and sew the bars to the breeches - it allows a bit more ease than sewing everything on tight.) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1630s suit - breech waist
I made a man's civilian suit for myself when I gave up soldiering (to wear when I didn't feel like trailing round in petticoats). I used a borrowed pattern (Merchant Adventurers, I think). The breeches are gathered onto a solid waistband closed with two buttons, and not attached to the doublet (although I know that is correct for the period). I think most of the men in my group wear breeches with a waistband. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1630s suit - breech waist
In a message dated 5/5/2006 10:37:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (You can lace the breeches to the doublet on the inside, without the bows showing on the outside, or you can make hooks and bars to join them If your friend is planning on being particularly energetic, a theatre trick worth noting is to sew the hooks on so they hang from a short piece of elastic, sewing them to the doublet, and sew the bars to the breeches - it allows a bit more ease than sewing everything on tight.) * Yes, the elastic trick is good. And, if you want that open doublet look with a bit of shirt showing at the waist, the breeches [hosen, really I guess if worn with a doublet] can be just hooked or laced across the back. It occurred to me you can lace to tie it up with elastic, if no one sees it. If you look at an etching ... _http://www.relewis.com/BosseStudio.html_ (http://www.relewis.com/BosseStudio.html) _http://www.relewis.com/BosseStudio.html_ (http://www.relewis.com/BosseStudio.html) ...you'll see how high the doublet waist is. A bit of shirt showing in front [as in the man seated at the easel] just emphasizes this fashion trait. Just linking them in the back would work for this. You'll also see how full the breeches are in the crotch...and if the rise of the crotch seam is sufficient in the back, no wedgies. I don't know if it's period or not but you could cut the waistband wider [higher] CB than in the front. And split it CB with a lace there like in some 18th century breeches. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
