Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
Please find a home for them! Once trashed they do no good for anyone. These kinds of primary resources are a goldmine for anyone studying history, literature, material culture, historic anthropology, sociology, etc. High school or even elementary school teachers who want to provide their students with a hands-on experience with historic documents would probably love to have them. Yes, scholars and researchers know where to find complete issues, either in their original form or in their digital form, but these bits and pieces still have value. For another example, while I absolutely love projects that have digitized masses of material, like Google Books, Making of America, or Accessible Archives, copyright and access issues are still important for those who want to undertake small, focused digitization projects. Having access to an original item that is in the public domain makes those kinds of projects possible. (At least they will be as long as the Google legislation doesn't go through as it now stands.) On a personal note, if anyone has 'bits and bobs' from publications from between 1849 and 1863 that include fiction, I'd be happy to give them a good home. - Hope Laurie Taylor wrote: Well, I just so hate to throw anything out that might have any little tidbit of historical value. Goes right along with being an incorrigible packrat. Yes, they're mine. I can do what I want...but it's not easy to toss out parts! I too sometimes get sucked into the fiction, not often, but it is ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
For another example, while I absolutely love projects that have digitized masses of material, like Google Books, Making of America, or Accessible Archives, copyright and access issues are still important for those who want to undertake small, focused digitization projects. Having access to an original item that is in the public domain makes those kinds of projects possible. (At least they will be as long as the Google legislation doesn't go through as it now stands.) Actually, Google is not pursuing legislation but a lawsuit. Furthermore, Google has made no attempt whatever to restrict access to, or scanning of, works in the public domain. It's true they spent a lot of money scanning public domain works. And they plan to sell them--not, in most cases, give them away, the free stuff is just a PR teaser--but that is not inherently illegal. What Google _has_ done is scan over 2 million works that are still under copyright and is planning to sell _those_, not via any legislation to directly change copyright law but via a class action suit and a contract made with a handful of parties who do not represent most authors or publishers. This includes not only the much-ballyhood and badly-named orphan works--mid-20th-century works still under copyright which Google wants to sell without bothering to locate the owners--but hundreds of thousands of works by live, fully locatable authors (including some I know personally) and in-business, fully locatable publishers, and including works still in print. Much of the outcry about Google's scanning of orphan works comes from others who would also like to violate the copyrights of orphan works but are afraid they can't financially withstand the resulting lawsuits whereas Google can. I have no sympathy. Forget about some bugbear of Google preventing access to public domain works, or other people scanning them. They can't, and no legal objection was ever raised to their scanning public domain works. The legal objection is to their scanning works still under copyright. As Google's scanning of copyrighted works is currently being investigated by the Justice Department, hopefully they will not get away with it. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
What Google _has_ done is scan over 2 million works that are still under copyright and is planning to sell _those_, not via any legislation to directly change copyright law but via a class action suit and a contract made with a handful of parties who do not represent most authors or publishers. I should add, this project is not Google Book Search, where entire works were scanned for the purpose of providing display snippets and ads next to them. I am talking about Google scanning entire books (copyrighted, even in-print, as well as public domain books) to sell the full texts as e-books, as print-on-demand books, and as parts of anthologies compiled by Google. Google's strategy was to borrow the books from fully consenting libraries, contractually engage to defend copyright violation suits brought against those libraries, do low-quality scans of the books to get on the market fast, and then to legally assert that anyone who did not find out that their copyright had been violated and also withdraw consent within a very limited time period, had legally consented to Google's selling the work, and also ads within it (ad sales to be made by Google). Whereas, copyright law requires prior consent for the use of works. Even though I do not know of any of my works that were scanned (Google will not reveal this to anyone who does not first consent to their terms), I hired a lawyer to make sure my consent was firmly withdrawn. But, another wrinkle is, even if you officially withdraw consent Google makes no legal guarantee they will not scan and sell your work anyway. Some of the libraries in the project insisted that Google scan only public-domain works in their collections--but some, reassured by Google's relieving the libraries of legal liability, did not. Again, no one has ever objected to Google's scanning of public-domain works, or their plans to sell those works as e-books or print books, or their plans to sell ads within them. OK, I personally don't want modern ads inserted in 19th-century works that I buy (except for a tasteful list of the modern publisher's other books in the back) but apparently a lot of people don't object, or Google thinks they won't. The breathtakingly massive scanning of copyrighted works is another issue altogether. I'm rooting for the Justice Department. Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
Again, no one has ever objected to Google's scanning of public-domain works, or their plans to sell those works as e-books or print books, or their plans to sell ads within them. On the other hand I can understand Google selling them as many of the Public domain works that are free in their entirety on Google books are already being sold on ABEbooks by others as I found to my dismay after buying one. I did get a refund in the end. I do agree authors should be contacted due royalties paid, but I do feel some works that are unlikely to ever be reprinted are better scanned and made available, if sold though royalties should be paid. Mel This a-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the contents of this a-mail or any of its attachments without express consent ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
On the other hand I can understand Google selling them as many of the Public domain works that are free in their entirety on Google books are already being sold on ABEbooks by others as I found to my dismay after buying one. I did get a refund in the end. In the US it is perfectly legal for multiple sellers to sell, or give away, public domain works. As Google is not yet publishing print books that I know of, I assume you paid for a print copy from ABE. Printing is not free, in fact it is often very expensive. I do agree authors should be contacted due royalties paid, but I do feel some works that are unlikely to ever be reprinted are better scanned and made available, if sold though royalties should be paid. No matter what you personally feel, according to US copyright law it is illegal to reprint copyrighted books without the prior consent of the copyright owner. In fact, most of the orphan works, having been initially published after 1923, are not all that rare. Many are widely available on the used market. As Google's whole plan is _not_ to notify individual copyright owners--again, they've refused to tell me whether my works have been scanned unless I first sign their contract regarding compensation for any that were scanned--it follows that many copyright owners will not be able to collect royalties on those works. Furthermore, the contract Google is trying to impose on _all_ authors who do not explicitly withdraw their consent, is pretty negative. They are only paying $60 per copyrighted work scanned to compensate for copyright violation, whereas the court award in a suit is typically around $75,000. For multiple printings and formats of the same book (hardcover, paperback), the $60 applies to all together--you don't even get $60 apiece for them. There is absolutely no guarantee whatever of the dollar amount any copyright owner will make. Meanwhile, copyright owners will also actually have to _pay_ for each work to be in the Google registry (after a fixed amount of seed money is used up). Since the amount they will have to keep paying to remain in the system is not disclosed, then they could end up paying more than they make. Again, they have to consent now, without knowing that. If they quit paying, they effectively hand over their copyrights to Google permanently. Google's contract applies to the _entire copyright term of the work_. There is no negotiation of terms, and no ability whatever to withdraw once the default period for opting out is up. The opt-out deadline was extended from May 2009 to September 4, 2009. In other words, it's not far away. I should add that the Google contract applies to _every copyright holder in every country that signed the Berne agreement_. Not just those in the US. I gather there have been some protests from countries in the EU but I don't know a lot about that. Again, I'm rooting for the Justice Department. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
Another thought about those is Scan and Share. Henry W. Osier Chairman, Costume-Con 28 May 7 to May 10, 2010 www.CC28.org Look for our fan page on Facebook! And on Twitter: CostumeCon28 Got questions? Join the CostumeCon Yahoo group! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
I accidentally deleted the original message but I remember the substance. My response is: 1. The magazines are yours. You can do whatever you want with them. Why worry about conforming to other people's unwritten rules? 2. Yes, Peterson's is a very commonly found 19th-century magazine and yes, you can find complete copies (and bound annual volumes) fairly easily. 3. I try not to read the usually grade B fiction in them but sometimes I get sucked into it. There are some stories that revolve around clothing and show its importance to period readers in terms of things like getting husbands and keeping up the correct social front in reduced circumstances. These may interest you. 4. I have a sizable heap of largely gutted _Godey's_ and _Peterson's_ and loose pages from them, that someone gave me years ago. Since I would rather have good copies (and in some instances do have them), I've contemplated just throwing these onto the recycle pile. I almost never throw anything away, but probably I should do it once in awhile. 5. Your mileage may vary, do whatever is most convenient for you. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines
Hi Fran, Well, I just so hate to throw anything out that might have any little tidbit of historical value. Goes right along with being an incorrigible packrat. Yes, they're mine. I can do what I want...but it's not easy to toss out parts! I too sometimes get sucked into the fiction, not often, but it is interesting. Mostly I find myself considering whether I could do the little bits of crochet work that they show, or wondering how I could use the embroideries. I don't really have time for them, but they intrigue me. Tonight, flipping through a few issues at random, I ran across the most exciting thing that I personally have ever found in these. There is a page of Rick-Rack Work! It's PERIOD! I only learned of rickrack work in the last year or so, and had no idea when it developed. But if it's period, then I can use it on a gown and I'm pretty sure I will! It is so cute. So, more browsing, a bit of scanning perhaps, and then I guess a decision to make. Thanks for helping me focus my ideas on this little dilemma. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:43 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] The Peterson's magazines I accidentally deleted the original message but I remember the substance. My response is: 1. The magazines are yours. You can do whatever you want with them. Why worry about conforming to other people's unwritten rules? 2. Yes, Peterson's is a very commonly found 19th-century magazine and yes, you can find complete copies (and bound annual volumes) fairly easily. 3. I try not to read the usually grade B fiction in them but sometimes I get sucked into it. There are some stories that revolve around clothing and show its importance to period readers in terms of things like getting husbands and keeping up the correct social front in reduced circumstances. These may interest you. 4. I have a sizable heap of largely gutted _Godey's_ and _Peterson's_ and loose pages from them, that someone gave me years ago. Since I would rather have good copies (and in some instances do have them), I've contemplated just throwing these onto the recycle pile. I almost never throw anything away, but probably I should do it once in awhile. 5. Your mileage may vary, do whatever is most convenient for you. Fran Lavolta Press New book on 1820s clothing! http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
