Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Thanks for your input, everyone! It sounds like I'd be best off using coutil or something similar, Saundra's recommendation notwithstanding. Emily On 2/6/2012 7:00 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote: According to Montgomery, Textiles in America, Nankeen is a cotton cloth of plain weave originally sold at Nankin in China and made from a yellow variety of cotton... At least by the mid-eighteenth century, in the Manchester area it was made of ordinary cotton dyed yellow. Swatch number 62 in Holker's manuscript is nankeen suitable for men's waistcoats and trousers which he says wears very well. (see page 308 for more details) You might try to find coutil, which is made specifically made for corsets. It's fairly lightweight, but very strong. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Cotton Coutil dyes readily and you can also just use it as the interlining if you want something else on the outside (like printed yellow cloth). Sg On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks for your input, everyone! It sounds like I'd be best off using coutil or something similar, Saundra's recommendation notwithstanding. Emily On 2/6/2012 7:00 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote: According to Montgomery, Textiles in America, Nankeen is a cotton cloth of plain weave originally sold at Nankin in China and made from a yellow variety of cotton... At least by the mid-eighteenth century, in the Manchester area it was made of ordinary cotton dyed yellow. Swatch number 62 in Holker's manuscript is nankeen suitable for men's waistcoats and trousers which he says wears very well. (see page 308 for more details) You might try to find coutil, which is made specifically made for corsets. It's fairly lightweight, but very strong. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net __**_ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __**_ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- -Sg- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Coutil is too stiff for this corset. It's not like a mid 19th Century corset where you want a sturdy stiff cloth to squeeze the body into an unnetural shape with lots of boning. This is a much more natural shape giving the bust support more than anything. A high thread count muslin, like a sheeting is a good substitute for Nankeen. Coutil will not give you a corset like the original the pattern was taken from. I get a 90 cotton sheeting at New England Quilt Supply, Springmaid I think, it is very high thread count and has good body. Katy On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com wrote: Cotton Coutil dyes readily and you can also just use it as the interlining if you want something else on the outside (like printed yellow cloth). Sg On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your input, everyone! It sounds like I'd be best off using coutil or something similar, Saundra's recommendation notwithstanding. Emily On 2/6/2012 7:00 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote: According to Montgomery, Textiles in America, Nankeen is a cotton cloth of plain weave originally sold at Nankin in China and made from a yellow variety of cotton... At least by the mid-eighteenth century, in the Manchester area it was made of ordinary cotton dyed yellow. Swatch number 62 in Holker's manuscript is nankeen suitable for men's waistcoats and trousers which he says wears very well. (see page 308 for more details) You might try to find coutil, which is made specifically made for corsets. It's fairly lightweight, but very strong. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net __**_ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costume http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __**_ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/**listinfo/h-costume http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- -Sg- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] nankeen substitute
Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Looks like it might just be yellow cloth: - Printhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964?print - http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry.pagelinks.savecontentlink:savecontent?t:ac=Entry/124964 Savehttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964#http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# - Emailhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# - Citehttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# - Text size:Ahttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# - Ahttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# nankeen, n. and adj. View as: - Outlinehttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/false?t:ac=Entry/124964 | - Full entryhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry:showfullentry/true?t:ac=Entry/124964 Quotations: - Show allhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry:showallquotations/true?t:ac=Entry/124964 | - Hide allhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry:showallquotations/false?t:ac=Entry/124964 *Pronunciation:* Brit. /nanˈkiːn/ , /naŋˈkiːn/ , U.S. /nænˈkin/ *Forms:* 17 *nankein*, 17–18 *nanquin*, 17– *nankeen*, 17– *nankin*, 18 * namking* (*U.S.*), 19– *nanking*. Also with capital initial.(Show Less)http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# *Etymology:* *Nankin* , former spelling of the name of the city of * Nanking* (see Nanking n.http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/view/Entry/245052#eid12289719); the form *nankeen* is probably after -een suffix1http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/view/Entry/59634#eid5749135. Compare French*nankin* , noun (1760 denoting a type of cotton fabric, generally of a yellow colour, 1842 denoting a pale yellow colour) and adjective (1804 in sense ‘of a pale yellow colour’), Dutch *nankin* , * nanking* , noun (mid 19th cent.), German *Nanking* . The name of the city, in the form *Lankin* or *Lanquin* (probably via Portuguese), was applied to a kind of silk in the 17th cent.: see further H. Yule and A. C. Burnell *Hobson-Jobson* (1886), s.v. *Nanking*. (Show Less)http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964# *A.* n. *I.* A kind of cloth; senses relating to this. *1.* Thesaurus »http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 Categories »http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 *a.* A kind of pale yellowish cloth, originally made at Nanking from a yellow variety of cotton, but subsequently manufactured from ordinary cotton which is then dyed; more fully nankeen cloth. Also in*pl.*: a piece or variety of this cloth. Now chiefly *hist.*In some 18th-cent. uses perh. referring to a variety of unbleached silk rather than cotton. *c*1700*Acct. of Sale of India Silkshttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * 1/2 Damask Nankeens 403, at 5*l*. 1755in F. W. Fairholt *Satirical Songs Poems on Costumehttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * (1849) 239 Make his breeches of nankein, Most like nature, most like skin. 1781A. Adams in *Familiar Lett.http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * (1876) 402 There are some articles, which come from India,‥Bengals, nankeens, Persian silk. *c*1809F. Buchanan in M. Martin *Eastern Indiahttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * (1838) III. 244 Wool having the colour of nankeen cloth. 1878J. H. Gray *Chinahttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * III. xxiii. 143 The cloth called nankin, generally written nankeen, is of the greatest durability. 1891*Cent. Mag.http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * Mar. 735 The middle and lower half had been supplanted by another vest and trousers of faded nankeen. 1936*Jrnl. Southern Hist.http://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * *2* 412 Translated, it runs like this, ‘Oh, you American knave dressed in nankeen—You steal loaves of bread for Mister d'Quin!’ 1957P. White *Vosshttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * xi. 318 Many a citizen, walking at the water's edge, in good nankeen or new merino, did entertain secret hopes. 1997T. Clark *Empire of Skinhttp://www.oed.com.ezproxy.pvc.maricopa.edu/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/124964 * ii. 79 The long overland trek toting skins of sea otters‥to exchange for‥nankeens and tea. On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, I'm
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
As I understand it, nankeen was a pale yellow/pale brownish cotton which was originally from naturally colored cotton and then became a term for a sturdy cotton dyed a buff yellow in imitation of the Chinese original (nankeen=nanking). I have never heard it refered to as being a special weave (like twill) so I have assumed that it is just a sturdy plain weave cotton in a pale yellow. I'd love to know if anyone else has more specific information. Karen -- Original Message -- From: Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] nankeen substitute Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:37:47 -0600 Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
I asked Saundra the same question and she recommended a cotton sheeting. It has to be lightweight. Katy On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.com www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
My impression was always that it was a heavier cotton cloth. It was made into sturdy boots/halfboots for wearing when walking. And men's trousers were made of it. Sheeting would not make very good men's trousers. ;-) I always envisioned it as the weight of a thin denim/twill though not necessarily that weave style. It was originally made from a yellowish/brownish Chinese cotton, but later regular cotton was used and dyed that same color. Teena From: Katy Bishop katybisho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute I asked Saundra the same question and she recommended a cotton sheeting. It has to be lightweight. Katy On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.com www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
The English schoolboy's hat I have is lined with that, it appears. Nice to know what it is. It is thin, but the twill weave gives it a very soft feel to the fingers. Very smooth. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Katy Bishop Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute I asked Saundra the same question and she recommended a cotton sheeting. It has to be lightweight. Katy On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.com www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Lightweight cotton sheeting? It's a good thing I asked - I was thinking more along the lines of a sturdy twill! Emily On 2/6/2012 1:00 PM, Katy Bishop wrote: I asked Saundra the same question and she recommended a cotton sheeting. It has to be lightweight. Katy On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Emily Gilbertemchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
Hi, In 18th-century and 19th-century , nankeen was popularly used for breeches, so I wouldn't go too lightweight with it. Since it was a naturally-colored cotton you might have fun using one of the yellowish http://foxfibre.com/ fabrics. When I get home tonight I'll look it up in Montgomery's Textiles in America to see if she has any info about weave. Lauren - Original Message - From: Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 1:37:47 PM Subject: [h-cost] nankeen substitute Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] nankeen substitute
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Emily Gilbert emchantm...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm planning to make the Past Patterns 1793-1820 Transition Stay. It says that the stay the pattern was taken from was made in nankeen, and that nankeen is unlike any fabric available in today's market, but doesn't offer any suggestions as to what to use instead. Does anyone know what kind of fabric would give me the closest approximation? Thanks! Emily According to Montgomery, Textiles in America, Nankeen is a cotton cloth of plain weave originally sold at Nankin in China and made from a yellow variety of cotton... At least by the mid-eighteenth century, in the Manchester area it was made of ordinary cotton dyed yellow. Swatch number 62 in Holker's manuscript is nankeen suitable for men's waistcoats and trousers which he says wears very well. (see page 308 for more details) You might try to find coutil, which is made specifically made for corsets. It's fairly lightweight, but very strong. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
