RE: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
Not being a computer person, I don't know if this is possible: When you have a reply to a post, whether it is a contribution or just a compliment, would it be possible to make the computer automatically put a reply notice in the topic window, along with the original topic line? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...) Can we kill this discussion? There's nothing wrong with this list. If something comes up that you don't want to read, don't read it. If you accidentally read something you find to be a waste of time, well boo hoo! Who here has spent any significant amount of time reading such things? Like many other people on the list, there are _some_ messages you don't want to process at all--or you would not ask to have a discussion killed instead of just ignoring those messages. I understand. I feel the same way. When it became clear that people had different ideas about which discussions are irrelevant and uninteresting, I proposed the idea of filters to see what people thought of it. Some like the idea, some don't. OK. Any inference (not yours, I know) that I'm trying to take over h-costume or impose standards on everyone by making such a suggestion is absurd--it's not even technically possible. So, now we can all go back to flaming each other and asking for discussions to be killed whenever =someone gets bored. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Lavolta Press wrote: So what about a system of CHAT: for chat, compliments, me-toos, computer problems, off-topic, and in short everything not a substantive message on costuming, versus no header at all for everything else? That strikes me as being more likely to succeed, and to be useful, than asking that every post be tagged in some way, which is what I thought you were suggesting originally. I don't think a total tagging system would be manageable with our current administrative setup and turnover rate, but a CHAT: tagging convention to separate costuming from non-substantive or non-costuming isn't too much to ask. And it would indeed be helpful. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Robin Netherton wrote: On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Lavolta Press wrote: So what about a system of CHAT: for chat, compliments, me-toos, computer problems, off-topic, and in short everything not a substantive message on costuming, versus no header at all for everything else? That strikes me as being more likely to succeed, and to be useful, than asking that every post be tagged in some way, which is what I thought you were suggesting originally. I don't think a total tagging system would be manageable with our current administrative setup and turnover rate, but a CHAT: tagging convention to separate costuming from non-substantive or non-costuming isn't too much to ask. As a mostly lurker, avid reader and sometimes poster, I would like to second this. An easy way to filter out non-costuming posts would indeed be useful. :) Another way to go (or maybe used to supplement a simple tagging system) might be to set up a short and clear set of guidelines for the group that dictate a bit more how to post. Maybe this is just my usenet background talking, but I find that online communication is so much easier if everyone follows some simple rules. The most important that come to mind are: - Please trim your posts. Do not quote an entire post or digest when you reply, but only those parts you are replying to. (This, I find, is not so much a problem when I have the list set to deliver individual messages, but in those periods where I need it set to digest I often find that reading the list gets very frustrating and time-consuming.) - When veering off the original subject in a reply, please also change the subject line! (In order for the but you can just delete the posts you aren't interested in argument to be valid, it needs to be possible to identify such posts _before_ you read them.) - Don't post one-liners or comments that don't contribute to the discussion at hand. (By this I mean that ooh, your work is lovely has the same positive effect if sent privately as on the list. I think such feedback is inspiring and important both to give and receive, but maybe not so useful on-list.) On the one hand I do like that the list is so chatty and a real community, OTOH I would like an opportunity to more easily identify interesting posts. The important thing is, as others have said, to make any rules so short and clear that they don't discourage people from posting at all. Ingrid -- This email has been scanned for viruses spam by Decna as - www.decna.no Denne e-posten er sjekket for virus spam av Decna as - www.decna.no ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Lavolta Press wrote: So what about a system of CHAT: for chat, compliments, me-toos, computer problems, off-topic, and in short everything not a substantive message on costuming, versus no header at all for everything else? I don't like the idea of having topic tags. My email client only shows a limited number of characters for a message subject (that's not changeable/customizable no matter how big I make the window). If we start hanging tags at the start of the subject line I won't be able to see any subject at all. That would make this list way to cumbersome for *me* (and I may be in the minority here -- that's ok). You're also assuming that folks will remember to change the *tag* just like they remember to change the *subject* susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
On Monday 17 July 2006 1:53 am, Robin Netherton wrote: On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Lavolta Press wrote: So what about a system of CHAT: for chat, compliments, me-toos, computer problems, off-topic, and in short everything not a substantive message on costuming, versus no header at all for everything else? That strikes me as being more likely to succeed, and to be useful, than asking that every post be tagged in some way, which is what I thought you were suggesting originally. For what it's worth; I didn't read Fran's original suggestion as asking that every post be tagged in some way. I thought she was only recommending that we establish a small set (no more than 4, say) of common tags (such as CHAT:) that people would be encouraged to use. I apologize for not having been clearer myself. I don't think that more can be done on *any* list, since the only practical means of enforcement (cutting off the offender's list access) would tend to kill off the list. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
For what it's worth; I didn't read Fran's original suggestion as asking that every post be tagged in some way. I thought she was only recommending that we establish a small set (no more than 4, say) of common tags (such as CHAT:) that people would be encouraged to use. I apologize for not having been clearer myself. Exactly, and I'm sorry if I confused people by using the term header to mean tag/prefix for a subject line. Which on retrospect was bad idea, because if you want to modify an actual message header you have to hack it, which is only done by people like spammers. Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
Can we kill this discussion? There's nothing wrong with this list. If something comes up that you don't want to read, don't read it. If you accidentally read something you find to be a waste of time, well boo hoo! Who here has spent any significant amount of time reading such things? This place is an oasis of fine tuned subjects compared to many other lists. We don't need any more policing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
Can we kill this discussion? There's nothing wrong with this list. If something comes up that you don't want to read, don't read it. If you accidentally read something you find to be a waste of time, well boo hoo! Who here has spent any significant amount of time reading such things? Like many other people on the list, there are _some_ messages you don't want to process at all--or you would not ask to have a discussion killed instead of just ignoring those messages. I understand. I feel the same way. When it became clear that people had different ideas about which discussions are irrelevant and uninteresting, I proposed the idea of filters to see what people thought of it. Some like the idea, some don't. OK. Any inference (not yours, I know) that I'm trying to take over h-costume or impose standards on everyone by making such a suggestion is absurd--it's not even technically possible. So, now we can all go back to flaming each other and asking for discussions to be killed whenever =someone gets bored. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: I think this is an excellent idea and second Fran's recommendation that we implement it on h-costume. I have seen this work extraordinarily well on exactly one list -- a list for copyeditors, who are, by definition, able to deal with detailed rules on handling language. However, the system is also backed up by a strong administrative infrastructure on the list, including an extensive set of well-maintained FAQs and two extremely active list managers who will send warnings to people who do not follow the rules, or put them on moderated status. From the description, it sounds as though the translators' list modeled its tags after the ones established on the copyeditors' list (or maybe the other way around, but I suspect the copyeditors' list is older) -- I know there is some cross-membership. Translators are another group similar to copyeditors, where people tend to be exacting in their use of language, and the purpose of the group is targeted and professional. I'm afraid I don't see such a system as easy to implement on h-cost, where we have a membership that's extremely diverse, representing people from many countries and of varying levels of ease at handling language and niggly bits of formatting. In fact, I have seen such a tagging system attempted for another group, with much the same level of variation as on h-cost, and despite eager support for the tagging system by some members, the burden of following the rules was difficult enough for many others that they simply stopped posting, or came away feeling that they would only post if they absolutely needed to because they were so afraid of getting it wrong and being scolded for it. The group suffered badly and has never recovered its once high posting levels. I consider it an asset of h-cost that it is easy for people to join and to engage in discussion, even if they are new to costuming, new to historic costuming, or new to e-mail lists, and where even newcomers who don't know the lists's traditions are treated, for the most part, with consideration and seriousness, and educated by participation. I have heard people say that the activity and the wealth of expertise on h-cost intimidated them as newcomers, making it hard for them to get up enough courage to post. I would not be inclined to add an extra burden -- real or perceived -- to newcomers or existing members who are not adept communicators. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Prefixes for headers? (was: Re: [h-cost] The delete button...)
I'm afraid I don't see such a system as easy to implement on h-cost, where we have a membership that's extremely diverse, representing people from many countries and of varying levels of ease at handling language and niggly bits of formatting. In fact many more h-costume members are native English speakers than on the translators' list, where the tags are all in English but a high proportion of the emails is not. I'm not sure some members read English at all. But as English is the only language h-costume posts are in, almost all members are fluent in it. I don't really see that having maybe four headings is too much of a mental strain, or that a simple colon is that finicky in terms of formatting. Even one heading, CHAT: versus everything else with no heading, would be extremely useful. In fact, I have seen such a tagging system attempted for another group, with much the same level of variation as on h-cost, and despite eager support for the tagging system by some members, the burden of following the rules was difficult enough for many others that they simply stopped posting, or came away feeling that they would only post if they absolutely needed to because they were so afraid of getting it wrong and being scolded for it. The group suffered badly and has never recovered its once high posting levels. So what about a system of CHAT: for chat, compliments, me-toos, computer problems, off-topic, and in short everything not a substantive message on costuming, versus no header at all for everything else? A high level of postings is no boon if a large number of them are irrelevant. I consider it an asset of h-cost that it is easy for people to join and to engage in discussion, even if they are new to costuming, new to historic costuming, or new to e-mail lists, and where even newcomers who don't know the lists's traditions are treated, for the most part, with consideration and seriousness, and educated by participation. I don't see that a tag system--again, even one tag for chat--would ruin that. Surely people can figure out off-topic discussions are chat? I have heard people say that the activity and the wealth of expertise on h-cost intimidated them as newcomers, making it hard for them to get up enough courage to post. I would not be inclined to add an extra burden -- real or perceived -- to newcomers or existing members who are not adept communicators. I kind of thought we were all literate, mostly native English speakers, and mostly college educated. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
