Hi Penny and Susan,
While Bjarne's comments were awkward, I read it as his
expressing surprise, learning about the diversity of people in
America. The comments about Bush were not necessary, although there
has been criticism with the slowness of the response. I think it
Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose
parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley,
CA, even today.
I have an ageing hippie next door who just turned 40. :-) Do
you think, though, that the hippie styles in Berkeley are
On the topic of the south and hoop skirts Were the hoop skirts
popular later in the south then the north? I mean, our (ok, mine
and I am a typical yankee) picture of THE SOUTH is alweays with
ladies in hoops, but I would assume that the north had just as many
I was looking at the way certain eras of fashion are associated
with an area, which is different than what people were actually
wearing. It's not the reality, it's what we perceive based on
movies, popular culture, etc.
Hippies were everywhere, but now identified with Berkeley.
1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that
would look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home
I worked in a clothing store in the early 1980s (got to look at
a lot of ready-made), and also took sewing/tailoring/design classes
It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there first, as an
ongoing amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the US.
Do you know what influence it's had on the formation of other
reenactment groups, such as American Civil War, and American
I believe the Markland
It's interesting that these also started in that mid-1960s period,
whether there was any influence from the SCA or not.
A sign of the times, then - the beginning of more activity in
hobbies that are intense and not mainstream, yet they gained a good
number of participants.
Does anyone know of an available source that diagrams a woman's
dress from this period? (preferably online, but I'll take what I can
I'm looking for a basic diagram of something like this:
Someone diagrammed this gown!
It definitely sounds like a good weight for a gown, any time any
place. :-) Embellishement can turn it into a higher class. There's
that wool mantua at the Met with the metallic embroidery.
Lightweight wool is so wonderful for spring or fall outdoor events.
It really depends on what
With 14 yards? You must have really long legs! Or are you
casting an entire forest full of Robin Hood: Men in Hosen? :-)
h-costume mailing list
I saw a commercial on TV for a new Swiffer - it's for carpets
and has a sticky pad on the inside to catch the sweepings. They show
it working with loose items, such as dry cereal. I don't know how
well it would work with things that stick, like thread and cat hair.
I would like to participate in this also, but wouldnt there be problems?
If i get someone who has interrest in medieval, i would not be much
helpfull, have never done any medieval and what then?
It's funny that some people are suggesting gift categories
without even getting a
So we are NOT supposed to know who sent us our gift? I just got my
assignment, and I'd kinda like to talk to this person. Sounds
like we have a lot in common!
Good match Dawn!
I think the idea is that you reveal who you are when you send the
gift. But not beforehand. I imagine there
As long as there are no strange bumps or ridges, it doesn't matter.
I'm reminded of the construction of some originals - rather than
setting the sleeve into an armscye, it seems that the sleeve tops are
eased into place and then the strap or robings are applied on top of
This is hindsight, but I would have researched and bought the
busk first before starting the corset, and then adjust the corset
length so the available busk works.
Why do you have to buy the rest of the boning in the same place?
Is there a minimum order?
The spiral boning
I found a place in the Philadelphia area where I BOUGHT hideous
fabric from the 1950s. Actually I think it's cool, a pink, black
gray (with a touch of turquoise) modern print for curtains.
I agree that you should de-stink the stash and find the market
for it. Otherwise you could
I'm guessing the listing would have been fine six months ago,
but now with the movie coming out it has become a brand name. Funny
thing about celebrity names and fashion - I know exactly what Madonna
boots are, or a Jackie-O pillbox. People's names become synonymous
with a style. For
First I would recommend the 18th century woman list which is a
Yahoo Group - 18cWoman. There is a concentration of people who just
do that century, so lots of knowledge and information.
Approximately what year of colonial does your friend want?
Stomachers went out of
Ok, I think I see what you mean - two strips of lace form a V
that suggests a stomacher. Which is not at all how gowns of the era
Also they typically had low necklines, not a jewel neck. A
riding habit would have a high neck, but not a gown.
There is an odd dress from the 1920s, I think in the Met - it
has panniers and a train. It was worn at court, so I guess the order
against panniers did not last forever!
The wide pannier continued at the English court, as Court Dress,
until the death of Queen
Naturally mine was waiting for me today when I got home. :-)
Sue Clemenger sent some chocolate truffles (Yum!) and a beautiful
blank book covered in green velvet, with a Celtic knotwork animal
design embossed into it. Very cool, thank you!
Ok, since you mention Cowpens, I'm guessing you're doing Rev War?
Hey Carol K, e-friend and sock guru, thanks for all the info on
machine/frame knit sock (what is the correct term, or are all the
terms correct, but for different techniques?)
Framework knitting, stocking
I'm not much of a knitter, but I have a book called Folk Socks,
which has every kind of heel I ever say, and several I never did
before, all with knitting instructions for them. (I haven't been
following this thread, so I don't know if this book has been
mentioned.) It also has
I never said they were the most common, I said they were the best
available option; documented period technique using period
Ok, that's different, then.
What dating criteria have you been using in your examinations? As
you previously stated this was not a
OK. I can make knit yardgoods (5 knitting machines). What would
the stitches per inch be? Is there a decent pattern anywhere?
Kannik's Korner has a pattern for cut sewn stockings.
What era are you aiming for? How fine can your machines knit?
I suspect they are
Oooh, fun images! In the hunting costumes the ladies wear their
hair in the rugged and manly long flowing curls. Has anyone ever
seen this hairstyle worn with feminine style dress for this time
I also like the high heeled shoes with the ice skates strapped on. Cool!
And from all the discussion, it looks like there are a variety of
preferences for the boning:
- cable ties
1/4 white steel
1/2 white steel
Wissner (the German type) in several widths and
I have at least three crins of this period and the wire in them is
not quite tubular (think 'linguini and not speggitti).It is flexable
but is not bent easily. The originals were fiber cased.
Needle Thread in Gettysburg, PA (USA) carries this hooping.
At least they did some years back
A good source of knit historians is the Historic Kint list.
It's a Yahoogroup,
You didn't say what era you friend prefers - different people
concentrate on different time periods, cultures, etc. There are a
lot of great
If pictures in books dont suit your taste, then for a good grovel, a
CV, and a letter of introduction you can get into the Bath Museum of
Costume and fondle the real thing. Other museums have their own
rituals of supplication. grin
Well, my CV is not applicable because I haven't done
Referring to those red fox-hunting jackets as pinks raises the
additional question of just what the British historically meant when
they called something pink.
--Ruth Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer
My boss, an avid hunter, told me that the red fox-hunting
Kind of like a Smurf hat...
It's soft and fits to the head, except for a tip at the top that
tends to point or lie forward.
Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : )
otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would it not be a Phrygian style
I don't believe in the traditional (and outmoded) female role model
of constantly saying, of course, it's only my opinion, it's just
my two cents, your mileage may vary, what does the rest of the
group think? ad nauseum.
Tone is not apparent on a list like this one, so I think it's
So, I don't need a specific date for the technique, just a ballpark
half-century or quarter-century in which something visibly
recognizable as lace became commonly used as clothing decoration.
I know I see recognizable lace all over Elizabethan art, and I don't
see it in 14th century art. But
SharonC., who says Macbeth backstage too, and doesn't spit, turn around,
go out and come back in, etc.
On the Revlist (American Revolution) some people will write
*spit* after they mention the movie, The Patriot. It's a testament
to Mel that there are such reactions to his
I'll have to check. The guy who invited me is from a unit of
Highlanders, but I was thinking I'd just stick to my civilian
clothes. Unfortunately, those have about everything I need --
except a coat.
OTOH, if it's strictly military thing, I'll probably just stick to
I second Ann's suggestion of the 18cWoman list! It's Yahoo Group.
There are women's waistcoats, either quilted for warmth and worn
over stays (and under a gown), or styled like a man's waistcoat and
worn with a riding habit.
Jumps are a bit of a mystery, defined as lightly
Speaking of historical paintings, what are your favorites for
costume inspiration? I'm sure we've all copied a portrait to make
h-costume mailing list
I learned to crochet first when I was little, and discovered it
was very easy to shape it various ways. I was actually resistant to
knitting, because at the time it was not as interesting. I remember
a Girl Scout troop project (I was about 9), knitting scarves. They
only showed us
Don't you people know about the DELETE button on your computer? If
there is a subject you aren't interested in - delete it.
I agree - this list covers diverse time periods, and there will
be topics not of interest to everyone.
I would like to ask (and I hope it's ok with the
This was on a museum list. I e-mailed Eva, and she asked to
please share with other lists!
I'm writing in hopes that you know of a talented student who might be
interested in the following internship at the Merchant's House
Museum. This is the first time we've
As if the dyes and finishes were not enough...
I heard about something called silk rot, which will consume
destroy silk faster than time in general. I broke out after handling
some 1880s/90s items, ad that was suggested as a cause. In that case
the item should be removed from
It depends on whether the museum has photos or slides available
of objects. Besides postcards and prints, some museums have
professionally made slides of various objects. f they have them,
they will sell them! :-)
It's a question for the specific museum.
If you wanted
On Dec 25, 2006, at 12:54 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006, Robin Netherton wrote:
This is the one I like -- look at Elizabeth's left side, and
you'll see the side seam has been opened and laced with a gap. You
can see the dark underdress beneath.
Right, as others have said, it's not about sexual activity,
it's about grooming. My personal line of definition — hair
gel. :-) It can be as simple as that, and also guys who get
manicures, facials and have their eyebrows pruned shaped.
On May 5, 2007, at 2:48 PM,
Actually that looks like the stays rather than a stomacher.
The shape and length looks fine. Generally the stomacher is where
you would have some contrast — a focal point. They have that with
the bows, but the stomacher could be a different color, too.
With the underpinnings
It works if you go to:
and click the link from there.
I changed the subject line because it was offensive. The
history is brief, captions on each of 12 photos. It's done in a
factual way and not as a men's entertainment piece. It's not
in the fiber.
h-costume mailing list
Also have you tried a bridal shop? Any time I've seen a
bride's garter, they are blue and white and sometimes with a little
ornament (white bell, etc) added. As far as finding/making things,
that's something you can assign to a bridesmaid to research and get
for you. ;-)
Well, recycling old clothes to the current fashion has been
done throughout history. I think it's due to the post-WWII
consumerism that we're not used to it the way our ancestors were.
Whether something is thrown out or worn to rags, it's gone. I
think what vexes many
I have to agree with the person who posted about shoe styles.
When an era is the current trend, then we have shoes available, as
well as fabrics and the occasional ready-to-wear item that will do
for the historic look. But yes, shoes especially! Most reenactment
shoes are pricey,
On May 7, 2008, at 10:15 PM, Chris Laning wrote:
As I've said, I'm quite willing to believe Bjarne's example may be
chain stitches and attachments made with a hook; I'm not dead set
against there being crochet in the 18th century.
Really, I do understand why people keep trying to find
On May 13, 2008, at 11:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I also own a very old stocking knitting machine that is circular. I
haven't done anything with that yet. I am curious to see if I
could make stockings on it that re enactors could use.
It depends on the era and accuracy
On May 14, 2008, at 12:38 AM, Lavolta Press wrote:
How much is it like using a weaving loom?
With either, it depends on how you set it up and your project.
The motion of a home knitting machine is to slide the carriage back
forth, simpler than raising the sheds and throwing a
On May 14, 2008, at 5:21 PM, Andrew T Trembley wrote:
Unfortunately, your impression seems to be about right. Both Passap
(the most advanced European manufacturer) and Brother (the biggest
Japanese manufacturer) no longer produce knitting machines.
Then maybe secondhand machines
On May 14, 2008, at 9:49 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
I thought fine gauge might be nice for lacey knits.
Or use thin yarn on a medium gauge machine.
I suppose I should consider taking up hand knitting, but I've got
this childhood block about it. I suppose counting stitches is not
On May 14, 2008, at 10:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I should think I could even use my straight knitting machines to
make the stockings if I wanted a seam up the back. And even if you
knit them by hand you're going to have some give because of the
nature of the stitches.
So why do people have so many? Do you not trade in the old one when
buying a new one, which is what I do? Do you have machines that do
Tee hee - sewing machines are like cars, and it's all a matter
of how you buy them. Some people upgrade every few years, others
On May 15, 2008, at 10:28 AM, Bambi TBNL wrote:
Well actually ...do you remember having the spool with the nails
and the yarn got looped over the nail and then you wrapped again
and...well if you ever had one...this is making sense...a knitting
loom is sort of like that concept with the
What is your favorite method of preserving patterns to keep them
intact? In the past, I have fused the tissue to muslin, but those
were *very* simple children's play clothes, and eyeballing the
cutting line for a smaller size was simple.
I rarely use commercial patterns; usually I
Good thing you have 17th century in your signature — that's the
period for your stockings, right?
Ok so at the ankle, you're holding the stitches at the front
and knitting the heel flap. Then you have to form the part that cups
around the heel.
On Dec 30, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Dianne wrote:
Oh yeah, and a flying monkey :). I need to make him a little
My SCA coat of arms is a winged monkey. Any clue where he came from?
This is funny — the Air Space Museum has a monkey in a
On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Robin Netherton wrote:
It can take a little while for the bleach to do its work. I suppose
that is why you can use certain (weak) bleach products to alter the
color of your hair and not end up bald ... but it's certainly not
good for your hair.
Years ago, I
Yes — assemble both the outer layer and the lining, but leave
open both side seams.
Put them right sides together and sew along the circumference:
neck, center front, lower fronts. Armscyes. Bottom back edge. Do not
sew the side seams.
Turn it inside out and press.
On Apr 4, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Chris Laning wrote:
I'm working on a project that involves constructing some mid-17th-
century stockings, and my own expertise (such as it is) is really
only with earlier centuries.
So far, the results I seem to be getting suggest that either (1)
I had some white peacock feathers at one time. I suspect they
were bleached. The gold section was still metallic looking and
another part was pinkish, with the rest being a cream color. They
would have made quite an impressive dress, too.
Now that I've looked at the albino peacocks, I definitely think
my feathers were bleached. The albinos are pure white and the
bleached feathers had a bit of color still on them.
Also I saw a web page where they sold bleached peacock, as well
as overdyed. The dyed are not
The purpose of the point over the left eye was so the musket
barrel would not hit it.
There are probably caricatures of hats being worn back on the
head, but the fashion was straight.
I remember hearing that 17thC hats were round rather than oval,
and the distortion when
On May 8, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote:
Of course, there are periods where a raw edge is more authentic
than finished edges.
But if you'd documented the lack of seam finish, and if your other
hand-sewing was good, the lack of seam finish would have looked
deliberate, not like
On May 9, 2009, at 8:11 AM, debloughcostu...@aol.com wrote:
But period correct fabrics are more than available (easily), like
fulled wools, (admittedly I do live near several of the best wool
mills in Europe),
Must be nice! :-)
It's all a matter of compromise — the correct
Judges of competitions have a difficult job of determining
which compromise is better than another, not to mention comparing
work portraying different time periods!
On May 9, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Käthe Barrows wrote:
Don't start thinking one period is compared to another period in
Don't they offer beards outside, like the stoning scene in Life
of Brian? :-D
h-costume mailing list
On Aug 4, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
I really can't see reading Twitter, it sounds like my idea of Hell.
You add each person you want to follow — so you can control
the signal to noise ratio. I imagine it's handy for people who are
away from their computers for most of
We are used to certain rules in dress, but sometimes ethnic
(anything not English) will break those rules. The image you showed
looks like a jacket. There were stays with detachable sleeves that
are meant to be an outer garment, up to the middle of the 18thC. For
17thC, there are
On Aug 11, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Michael Hamilton wrote:
My wife and I are living in Italy for a few years, and have made a
goal to go to Carnevale in Venice next February.
What a wonderful opportunity!
I've been searching the web for examples and patterns to work from
for her gown.
That's a chemise dress. It would have been linen or cotton.
Yes,they made it that sheer back then.
On Aug 12, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:
My mad scramble to get myself ready for Costume College left me
with a new
goal, but I'm very uncertain about fabric.
On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:29 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:
Yes, that is the infamous chemise gown and would have been made of
lightweight linen or cotton--supposed Marie Antoinette adopted the
style worn by the Creoles in the hot and steamy Caribbean. It is
possible that, during the time, an
Test it first. I once had some teal wool that I wanted to dye
navy, and the dye did nothing. Then I treated it with a color
remover, and got a school-bus yellow, which took the navy dye perfectly.
Whatever that teal dye was, it saturated the fibers so nothing
more could be
I'm looking at making do with Butterick 3640, view A. I do realize
that this is one of the Big 4 companies' silly attempts at
historical accuracy, and therefore, not period correct. Some of it
I can live with, and some I can fix. I'm trying to decide what
That was my thought, too — not a single twisted tube, but
faked somehow. I thought it might be cut into a separate piece for
each twist, but I suppose two strips could work as Sharon suggests.
How about that front embellishment? Is that like a really tiny
spaghetti strap, maybe
On Jan 1, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
On 1/1/2010 12:39 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote:
Then there's the Pantone system for printing. Trouble is, they change
the colors according to popularity, and the swatch books are
Pantone doesn't change the colors as far as I know,
On Jan 1, 2010, at 6:27 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
Fran is correct regarding Pantone, however the books are expensive
and recommended to be replaced every year. It was developed
specifically for the printing industry — there are some basic ink
colors that are mixed in various combinations
On Jan 1, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:
For one thing, it's Pantone who recommends that the swatches be
replaced every year. I'm only on my third Pantone fan, and I've
been working with them for 15 years. When I've replaced them I've
compared the old and new swatches. They don't
On Jan 2, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Kimiko Small wrote:
Then may I suggest we drop this topic asap? Please?
I'm still interested in hearing other experiences with using
color systems regarding historic costuming.
One other benefit for those who work with printers — if it's a
On Jan 3, 2010, at 5:58 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote:
You are right, Chris, that the link is helpful; what I was
originally trying to point out in my response was that if only
there were a precise color guide, we could describe colors and be
understood perfectly by our correspondents
On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Alexandria Doyle wrote:
I can help but think that running the basting line will take nearly
as long to do as doing the couching. I know it won't, I just
finished the pearling on the collar and I had the pattern drawn out
of muslin, and basted to the black
With either use of the word, though, it seems that the book was
not quite right in the order of operations. It's definitely out of
order for a wringer. I'm not sure what they mean by blued and
starched by hand. Blueing is added to the water, and even using
spray starch these days
I've heard of post-mortem photos that are taken of the person
in a coffin. Are there other examples of them with a dead person
posed sitting up?
There is something on the side of her head which could be a
barrette or could be a head prop or rest of some sort. It does not
It's still a little tricky — I see jpg artifacts — it's
different than if you had the photo and did a hi-res scan yourself.
The white pixels around the flower stems could be from sharpening the
image file. I see the same effect between the man's sleeve and the
On Feb 10, 2010, at 4:53 PM, Sharon Collier wrote:
No, with our sewing skills, we could make new old photos, and
pose them any way we liked! I have a friend who knows how to do the
old colloidal (sp?) type of photography..
How about the med student who can
On Feb 14, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Charlene Charette wrote:
This is an excerpt from P. Hilleström's A Conversation at
Drottningholm, 1779 (I wasn't able to find a detailed picture
online, so I scanned this from a book):
The same activity, as in needlework? They each seem to have a
different project. The one on the right is sewing / mending with
black thread on green fabric. No embroidery hoop. The one second from
the left, knitting? And the far left lady has an pointy thing but we
can't see what
taught thread. Her work resembles
crocheted lace more than knitting. Had to get my 2Cent worth.
It's amazing how much comment this thread has engendered.
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Carol Kocian wrote:
I'm more curious about the woman who appears to be knitting
Congratulations! Were you able to find out about hand-tinting
of stereoviews? Would it have developed at a different time than hand-
tinting single photos?
On Apr 6, 2010, at 3:35 AM, Penny Ladnier wrote:
I am now the VERY proud owner of the photo. I finally decided to
There are salons that specialize in long hair, conditioning
rather than cutting. While they may also have modern sensibilities
regarding styles, they do know how to handle long lengths. The idea
of bringing a picture or two is a good one.
The George Michael Salon in New York
On May 6, 2010, at 7:43 PM, landofoz wrote:
Has anybody got any suggestions on an 18th century accessory that
would use only one metre of velvet (something to keep warm would
be good as July is the middle of winter for those of us in the
Denise B wrote,
A request — please update subject lines when you change the
subject! With such a varied range of interests, it helps people to
know which posts they want to read and which ones to skip.
The fabric on your site is lovely and I'd hate to have people
On May 12, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Zuzana Kraemerova wrote:
Tell me one thing. How would be the situation if I asked the museum
for close up photos of the fabric? I would do the design with help
of these pictures. The result would be the same. Maybe I will do
it, I will ask the museum for close
There are two different issues here. One is copyright, regarding
making a copy of part of a book. There are other ways to get the
information, for example Inter Library Loan or looking at a friend's
copy. Or asking the friend if the book contains a particular thing.
If one is
On May 13, 2010, at 3:08 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
Coming late into this discussion, I have found myself wondering
about how commercial companies (say Waverly) go about reproducing
fabrics from the historical perspective (say Winterthur or
Williamsburg). Permission to copy?? Permission
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