RE: [hackers] Notes From Meeting

2003-08-03 Thread Aldon Hynes
I want to pile on to Lynn's question.  I haven't seen what she's been
writing, yet, but I believe it is really crucial.  I've been working on
making my site something that would be good for the State of Connecticut.
As I've worked on it a little, I've been thinking about the sort of
questions that I imagine Lynn will have to answer.

1) How do I make the site look the way I want?

  I imagine a start to this question talks about Themes, lists the themes
that have been developed etc.  One question it leads to is:

1a) How do I get other themes?
  A pointer on how to get the themes, how to unpack them, where to store
them, how to turn them on and how to make them defaults needs to be
described.

2) I really like the (whichever) theme, but I really want my site to have a
graphic specific to my state (group, whatever).  How do I change the graphic
for (whichever) theme.

  I imagine comments about the graphic for each theme is stored under
drupal/themes/(themename)/images  It might be nice to list what the key
images for each theme are, as well as recommended sizes if you want to
replace them.  In my case, I create an Aldon4Dean theme as an early test.
It turns out that replacing header.jpg had it particularly easy to make my
theme State specific.  As a side question, should we recommend that themes
use specific names to make such changes easier?

3) The page looks good for me, but when my friend logs in, she just gets
'not authorized' (or whatever that message is.  How do I set up permissions
some everyone can see what I want them to, and a few people can even get in
and change it?

  A simple description of user roles and permissions needs to be provided.

4) Okay, now that I have the general page layout looking the way I want,
should I use books, stories, blog entries, static pages, or what to store my
content.

   Personally, I'm still trying to decide this myself.  I would love to hear
other peoples comments on that.  I'm still experimenting.

5) Related to that, if I want to allow others to write stuff, should I use
blogs?  Forums? or what?

   My guess is that this ends up being a personal preference.  I've done a
little with blogs in drupal.  They seem to fit in very nicely.  I've also
set up a forum, and they seem to appeal to a different type of audience.
You might want to use one, the other, both, or none.  What are others
thinking about how people can write stuff?

5a) How do I set up forums?

To the extent that you want to set up forums, you need to understand
taxonomy.  I managed to find my way through this with some experimentation,
but it was too much for my wife and I imagine it is likely to be a bit much
for other admins.

6) How do I get specific information to be on the side of every page?

   Here, blocks need to be explained, and especially, creating new blocks.
In particular, creating a block that has an image, which links to some other
site (e.g.  back to the dfa site, or to the meetup site) should be
explained.

7) Hey, this is starting to look like something.  I've heard that there is
some way to pull in articles from other sites.  Something called
Syndication.  How does that work?

   I think it is important to have information on how to pull in a single
site, how to pull in multiple sites, and perhaps even, explain how to link
in Yahoo Groups.  My concern here, is that I've done this using the standard
syndication functionality.  This uses 'bundles' and works quite well for my
purposes.  It seems that the proposed new import module works a bit
different, and requires taxonomy, and also really needs some way of keeping
the feeds from over running the server.  The old version apparently deletes
anything except the most recent 50 items from the feeds.

7a) I think the feeds are set up, but they aren't updating automatically.
How do I get that to work?

Talk about how to get cron running.  Like with other areas, this should
include both a Unix appraoch and a Windows approach.

8) Of course this leads to,  I hear that the folks at DeanSpace have
written, and are continuing to write a lot of neat addtions to Drupal.  How
do I get them and load them on my system?

Describe a repository that is simple to use.  CVS, SourceForge, etc, are
probably a bit much.  Also, we probably need to make sure we have modules
(and themes) both as tarballs, but also as ZIP files for the Windows users.

I think this covers a lot of the issues that I've run into so far.  I would
love to hear other peoples comments.

I would also like to encourage people to consider helping get initial sites
up and running now.  I think it will help formulate the real issues, as well
as get some sites running.

Comments?

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Joshua Koenig
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] Notes From Meeting



Excellent point Lynn. I think the stock drupal modules we're including

[hackers] Various ideas lifted from blog space: Rideboard and Phonebank

2003-08-02 Thread Aldon Hynes



So, I'm up this 
morning and reading the messages in the "Secret Surprise" blog. 


RIDEBOARD

One person suggested 
a ride board for Dean events. Is there such a ride board up? Should 
we get something like that going in DeanSpace?

Again, in spite of 
being a high tech person, I like quick, somewhat low tech solutions at 
times.

For example. 
Could we have a Rideboard blog? Each public event from the Governor's 
calendar could be listed as blog entry and people wanting to work our rides 
could do it through the comments.

Granted, it would be 
really nice to set up a rideboard module that is distributed by location, 
matches people looking for rides with people offering etc. That might be a 
nice second step.

PHONEBANK

Here, I don't know 
enough of the details, and maybe a little brainstorming would be in order. 
Here are the things I do know:

It is common for 
campaigns to have a Phonebank during a primaries to get the vote out. I've 
never organized one, but I am wondering if we could set up tools to create a 
good distributed phonebank.

Many people have 
lots of free minutes on their phone plans. and would volunteer to be part of a 
phone bank from their homes. Some sort of database would be needed to 
organize such volunteers, track their results 
etc.

This has to be very 
sensitive. I would refer people to the article in the Concord Monitor, http://www.concordmonitor.com/stories/news/politics2003/nh__gop_phonelines_20y12y17_2003.shtmlabout 
Republicans trying to jam the get out the votes 
phonelines.

It would seem as if 
having some sort of authenticated CVS style checking out of phonelists to call 
might be important.

This is something 
with a very real deadline, that personally, I would love to see developed, and 
tested ahead of any caucus or primary.

Comments?

Aldon


RE: [hackers] RE: [developers] SignUpGoodAt page obsoleted

2003-08-01 Thread Aldon Hynes
I think ?!ng raises an important point, but I don't want to miss Neil's
point about redundancy either.  I believe that the best solution (yet more
work), would be to have a ProfileSummary.module  That is, everyone should
put the information they did in the SignUpGoodAt page into their profile.
Then, a separate module should be available so you can look at a nicely
formatted summary of all the profiles on a single page.

Comments?

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Zack Rosen
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:21 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] RE: [developers] SignUpGoodAt page obsoleted


Lets put it in the book then :)
-Zack

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ka-Ping Yee
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:43 PM
To: Neil Drumm
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [developers] SignUpGoodAt page obsoleted

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Neil Drumm wrote:
 http://deanspace.org/node/view/26

 This is one of the old wiki pages which no longer needs to exist.

Really?  I think it's wonderful to have one place to go where you
can read and learn about everybody.  It was one of the most useful
pages for me when i joined.


-- ?!ng



[hackers] Assorted

2003-07-31 Thread Aldon Hynes
Transparency:  I vote for letting lurkers be anonymous.  Although it does
come back to my earlier question:  Is there any nice way to make particular
posts only readable by a certain set of users.  Personally, I would even
allow anonymous people to post.  If they post anything unappropriate, the
admins/moderators can remove then posts.

In a nutshell, I like Neil's four levels of users, including differentiation
between authenticated lurkers and developers.

Wiki or Book:  I started doing things as books.  I haven't played with a
wiki module for Drupal.  Is there one?  I will load it and play with it and
provide my comments.  I do like the idea of Wiki for quickly changing things
and books for something more permanent.  I also like the idea of Wiki
requiring authentication, and books being transparent

DeanSpace Theme:  The version that Neil sent yesterday is up on
http://ahynes1.homeip.net:8180/drupal/


Aldon


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neil Drumm
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Transparency


Right now we are kinda opaque. People have to sign up to see whats going on.
I can do whatever with the Drupal permissions or even use a second instance
of Drupal for our internal communicaion. Are we okay with letting our
lurkers be anonymous? I plan on letting them have privileges to view most
things.

-Neil



RE: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown' sites andDeanSpace

2003-07-31 Thread Aldon Hynes
And when you have MT modules ready for testing I have an MT sandbox up and
running, as I'm sure many other people here do.  Please let us know and
we'll kick the tires.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of zachary rosen
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:02 PM
To: Zephyr Teachout
Cc: 'Dave Pentecost'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown'
sites and DeanSpace


MT module is something we have been talking about doing for quite some
time.  By all means Dave - run with it, it will get a lot of use I am
sure.

-Zack



RE: [hackers] Question about current drupal news feeds (aggregation)

2003-07-29 Thread Aldon Hynes
If there are any Windows users out there that need to know how to set up
scheduler (the Windows equivalent of crontab), I've set it up on my machine,
and I can help people out with it.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lynn Siprelle
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 11:21 PM
To: Shannon Little
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] Question about current drupal news feeds
(aggregation)



On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at 08:05 PM, Shannon Little wrote:

 I'm finding that I have to keep going to the admin panel and manually
 updating the three feeds I'm currently using.  Is there some way to
 get them to update automatically that I'm missing?  I do have cron
 enabled, and I got the impression when I set how often I want them to
 update that they would do so automatically...but it's just not
 happening.

You have to set up the crontab (not a part of drupal). Do you know how
to do that? If not--and you're on a *nix system, I don't do
windows--contact me offlist and I'll walk you through it.

Best,
Lynn S.
lynsa4012 on AIM

-
Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan
The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/
Siprelle  Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/
People-Powered Howard! http://www.deanforamerica.com/



RE: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc

2003-07-29 Thread Aldon Hynes
Well, I'm trying to catch up on everything that happened over the weekend
while I was off at the folk music festival.

So, I'm sorry if I'm covering things that have already been covered, but I
would like to throw in my two cents here.

Zephyr, I respectfully disagree with you on the importance of public
expression in whatever sort of space is created.  The public expression is
crucial in establishing a sense of a cohesive community and in facilitating
different people in connecting.

Let me illustrate:  On Friendster, I am connected to 157232 people in my
Personal Network, through 17 friends.  However, friendster doesn't
facilitate communicating with others in a manner that develops community.
As such, I haven't made any useful new contacts.

On the other hand, communities like www.ryze.com and www.ecademy.com do a
much better job of promoting community through things like blogging.

So, I strongly encourage facilities to promote blogging.  Granted, there are
other venues, including posting comments on the official blog, having your
own blogs, etc., but I believe having blogs, forums, or similar tools as
part of Deanspace will make it much more effective.

Zephyr raises the issue of moderation.  DFA doesn't have the staff to vet
who posts or what posts remain if we have a giant network of people posting.
However, following the paradigm of self organizing systems, and the example
of DMOZ, I don't believe that is important.  Every site that gets set up
will have its administrators and/or moderators.  This is no different than
the close to 400 mailing lists that have already been set up.  These
moderators can be as controlling or free flowing as they feel comfortable
with and fits their particular community.

Part of the beauty of a truly distributed system like this, is that I can
(or should be able to), as moderator of one system decide what content I
pick up from other systems.  This provides a natural feedback system.  Those
sites that develop a good sense of community through an appropriate level of
moderation will end up producing more valuable content, which will get more
widely distributed.

So, that's my two cents on the role of blogs, content, moderation and
community building within DeanSpace.

Comments?

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:53 PM
To: 'Joshua Koenig'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc


This is fantastic. Thanks Josh! I believe that if we get this up and
running, over 500,000 people will use it. I do -- over 1,000,000 on
friendster, and they aren't trying to change the world :)

The single biggest request we get from folks in the field is how do I
find other Dean supporters. This provides that means. It's a top
priority for the campaign, and if we can provide other resources to help
make it happen, ask me and I'll do everything I can do provide them.

The one thing that I would change in Josh's model is just that we are
not thinking of this as a place for public expression (why I support
Dean) not because we don't want that expression, but because
(1) there are other venues for it, and
(2) it drastically (or almost completely) eviscerates the
moderation/management needs if we don't provide that space--if there is
no enter your own content here but all pick and choose and links to
forum, we don't need to vet who enters at ALL which is ideal (this is
the big diff between us and friendster -- we don't have staff who can
routinely check every new person and we don't have people who want to
kill the campaign by posting obscene or harassing posts (that's the big
concern, not dissent).

I'm thinking that we'll just modify our extensive registration to
include all these elements (we're modifying anyway), and then feed the
Data to deanster. The tricks then, are

(1) how to display the information
(2) how to search

Right? The critical thing for the search is that people who are
currently online show up first, but if we start with a really clumsy
search (almost like an excel spreadsheet) we could at least get going.
We're a shoot first improve later campaign, in many ways, but esp. for
this one -- the basic functionality will be heaven for people.

It seems if we can do that and roll it out, we can then add other
features like uploading contacts and rating -- but I'm not the
programming guru.

What do you all think?

Zephyr Teachout
Internet Organizing  Outreach
Dean for America
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup
Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com
Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Koenig
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 5:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc


Here's a draft of my design doc for Deanster (a.k.a. the talend
database, the visible volunteers, the 

RE: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc

2003-07-29 Thread Aldon Hynes
I was missing the the terminology and the differentiation between 'Deanster'
and 'DeanSpace'.  Independent of the terminology, I believe it is crucial
for any sort of online community building tool to facilitate interaction
between the users above and beyond merely listing information.  I am
concerned from what I am hearing, that such functionality seems to be
missing from 'Deanster' and I feel that needs to be addressed.

It may be that it is best addressed by avoiding too strong a bifurcation
between 'Deanster' and 'DeanSpace'.

The question arises how do you establish an impression of other people in
the network, how is reputation established, maintained and communicated to
others?  These, of course, being fundamental building blocks to cohesion
which is crucial to people working effectively together.

Aldon

P.S.  Personally, I think the Friendster UI sucks.

-Original Message-
From: Joshua Koenig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:43 PM
To: Aldon Hynes
Cc: Zephyr Teachout; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc



Aldon,

I think you're missing part of the picture here. DeanSpace (e.g.
volunteer effort, community websites, blogs, etc) and the Deanster
application (hosted and operated by the campaign directly) are
logically separate. Deanster wouldn't include blogs for users, though
it could include a guestbook ala Ryze.

Personally, I think there are lessons to be learned from both of these
systems. Friendster has a vastly superior user interface to Ryze, but
Ryze allows people to join groups of interest in addition to having a
network of friends.

Your Deanster profile could of course include links back to your blog
or personal website. What we're talking about in terms of user
content is giving people quick, focused opportunities to offer their
opinion or explain what interests them about Dean or what they're
working on accomplishing.

We actually want to take this a step further in terms of adding
xpertweb functionality so that people can use the Deanster network to
get things done.


Hope that helps
-josh

p.s. It won't be called Deanster, by the way, but it makes a good
codename for now.


 Well, I'm trying to catch up on everything that happened over the
 weekend
 while I was off at the folk music festival.

 So, I'm sorry if I'm covering things that have already been covered,
 but I
 would like to throw in my two cents here.

 Zephyr, I respectfully disagree with you on the importance of public
 expression in whatever sort of space is created.  The public
 expression is
 crucial in establishing a sense of a cohesive community and in
 facilitating
 different people in connecting.

 Let me illustrate:  On Friendster, I am connected to 157232 people in
 my
 Personal Network, through 17 friends.  However, friendster doesn't
 facilitate communicating with others in a manner that develops
 community.
 As such, I haven't made any useful new contacts.

 On the other hand, communities like www.ryze.com and www.ecademy.com
 do a
 much better job of promoting community through things like blogging.

 So, I strongly encourage facilities to promote blogging.  Granted,
 there are
 other venues, including posting comments on the official blog, having
 your
 own blogs, etc., but I believe having blogs, forums, or similar tools
 as
 part of Deanspace will make it much more effective.

 Zephyr raises the issue of moderation.  DFA doesn't have the staff to
 vet
 who posts or what posts remain if we have a giant network of people
 posting.
 However, following the paradigm of self organizing systems, and the
 example
 of DMOZ, I don't believe that is important.  Every site that gets set
 up
 will have its administrators and/or moderators.  This is no different
 than
 the close to 400 mailing lists that have already been set up.  These
 moderators can be as controlling or free flowing as they feel
 comfortable
 with and fits their particular community.

 Part of the beauty of a truly distributed system like this, is that I
 can
 (or should be able to), as moderator of one system decide what content
 I
 pick up from other systems.  This provides a natural feedback system.
 Those
 sites that develop a good sense of community through an appropriate
 level of
 moderation will end up producing more valuable content, which will get
 more
 widely distributed.

 So, that's my two cents on the role of blogs, content, moderation and
 community building within DeanSpace.

 Comments?

 Aldon

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout
 Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:53 PM
 To: 'Joshua Koenig'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc


 This is fantastic. Thanks Josh! I believe that if we get this up and
 running, over 500,000 people will use it. I do -- over 1,000,000 on
 friendster, and they aren't trying to change the world :)

 The single biggest request we get from folks

RE: [hackers] Site name considerations...

2003-07-28 Thread Aldon Hynes
Well, I've been off at a folk music festival all weekend.  (It was a great
time.  I'll write more about it later at http://aldon.livejournal.com), so
I'm just starting to catch up on the flood of emails.

I have to say, Kurt's Map is VERY COOL!  I look forward to other neat stuff
with it.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Kurt Cagle
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hackers] Site name considerations...


Speaking of maps -

I've been working on a quick sample map with interactivity associated with
it. You'll need to download the Adobe SVG plugin
(http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/beta.html) (I'll set it up later so
that this could be done automatically), and then open up from my own site:

http://www.metaphoricalweb.com/usaMap.svg

When I'm done with it, you'll be able to upload any information into the map
-- Meetup members, dollars received per state, population figures, listings
of events by state, and so forth. Let me know what you thin.

-- Kurt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shannon Little
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Site name considerations...

It's a good idea to be forward thinking regarding how the name is going
to sound and look when referred to on the site and by potential
members.  This is part of the reason I really like Dean Country.  The
site could have a nice flash into saying something like Now entering
Dean Country  and a welcome message: Welcome to Dean Country , A
Dean Country Map  that could be visual with an image of the US where
people could click on their state to find local sites.  These are just
a few ideas that would fit nicely into a site theme using deancountry.





RE: [hackers] A current endorse dean page...

2003-07-28 Thread Aldon Hynes
Friendster?!?!  Anyone else on Friendster?  I am Aldon Hynes
([EMAIL PROTECTED]).  Any supporter of the Governor is a friend of mine.

I think Friendster is very significant in the development of community
online.   We need to be out in all the online communities building our
frinedships and getting more people involved in the campaign.

Personally, I think if we want to really do something cool with the MetaDean
Talent DB, we want to be looking at where FOAF (Friend Of A Friend,
http://www.foaf-project.org/) fits in.  Is anyone working on, or interested
in working on FOAF for Drupal?

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:21 PM
To: 'Neil Drumm'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hackers] A current endorse dean page...


The talent db is misnamed, really -- it has a talent db function, but
the real trick is in the display, ALA friendster, and the social
community building. Its not about the info coming in (really easy) --
more about the way of showing it that induces connections (find a
neighbor for dean).

Z

Zephyr Teachout
Internet Organizing  Outreach
Dean for America
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup
Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com
Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Neil Drumm
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] A current endorse dean page...

From what I know about endorse it is a form you fill out and spam all
your friends with some premade Dean messages. That link looks like
something to gather names (which we can also do, where do we put them?).

The deanvolunteers page is closer to the talent database. How is that
part going? We won't be duplicating or conflicting with the
DeanVolunteers effort if we make that will we?

-Neil

 Original message 
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:03:42 -0400
From: Shannon Little [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] A current endorse dean page...
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Here is the link:

http://www.deanvolunteers.org/DeanVolunteers/top_ten.asp#7




RE: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-28 Thread Aldon Hynes
And Ryze...

Who else is on Ryze?

I'm ahynes1 there.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Joshua Koenig
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for
Dean

snip

 We then want to implement a mothership node which can track all the
 multivariate RSS feeds which are produced and be a go-to source for
 people looking for information on Dean, or who want to get a birds-eye
 view of what's going on in the Dean online universe. Think Technorati,
 but specifically tailored for the Dean web. We also want to implement
 (in close coordination with the campaign) a centralized site to
 organize active volunteers in a social network ala Friendster or Ryze.

snip


RE: [hackers] yes Aldon, please do put it up on the wikki

2003-07-23 Thread Aldon Hynes
I have added my comments to the Wikki.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of zrosen
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] yes Aldon, please do put it up on the wikki


I put up this page as a start to answering legal issues

: http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?Legalities

by all means put something up on the issue and point the list at it...
-Zack




RE: [hackers] Re: Legal Issues and dodo birds

2003-07-23 Thread Aldon Hynes
A few random thoughts on this.  I don't think one can really say that
hack4dean has hashed this out, or that it is necessarily all that clear cut.
Being a big fan of self organizing systems, it seems to me that what we have
is a self organized system of hackers.  Some part of the group is very eager
to work with the campaign.  Perhaps another part is as eager to work outside
of the campaign, and probably a third group is somewhat indifferent.

Personally, I have one primary goal.  That is to get Howard Dean elected
President.  I will do everything I can to make that happen.  To the extent
that involves working on some 'official' part of the campaign, I will do it.
To the extent it involves throwing up webpages from my home site, hacking
some code, putting a bumpersticker on my car, wearing a button, and handing
out leaflets where ever I go, I will do that too.

I hope that this is the attitude of most of the people here.

That said, I also am a programmer, and a social scientist.  I am eager to
develop tools that will further the cause of democracy globally and to write
about the social implication of such tools.  I imagine most people here are
eager to see tools that further the cause of democracy developed, and we
will work on this as much as possible within the campaign, and continue to
work on this beyond the campaign.

I hope that this is reflects not only my thoughts, but the thoughts of
others here as well.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:46 PM
To: 'CMR'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hackers] Re: Legal Issues and dodo birds


Hey CMR:

I was under the (perhaps mis)apprehension that all this had been hashed
out with the hackers, but it sounds like it may not have been. Of course
it's a tough choice. You guys have two choices, really:

(1) work w/the campaign
(2) work outside the campaign

We're not indifferent to what you decide to do -- the opposite, really
(you are a complete godsend, and can transform the campaign) -- but
completely respect whatever you decide upon. It is your choice.

I see the main advantage of working with the campaign being, from a
political point of view, that the work you are doing can not only win
the presidency but transform politics. Because there is a driver behind
it -- Dean -- it will grow exponentially.

The main disadvantage is that HQ ultimately has to make final decisions
on content, presentation, and legal issues. The legal issues come up
throughout, because they are the hammer of the conservatives. The
content and presentation come up as the project nears completion. The
closer we work together, the easier it will be to take the project
immediately into the public sphere.

We at HQ are committed to building a kit that allows decentralized,
bottom up creativity and communication. We want to build something that
allows each Dean site to control its own content and still be connected
to the movements of the campaign, official and unofficial. That kit,
perversely, as the expression of the campaign's commitment, is extremely
important -- in legal as well as message presentation.

I REALLY REALLY hope you decide (or affirm, if it is already decided) to
work with us. It will be very hard for us to do it another way. I
believe, personally, that the functionality built here will take off and
be used to transform politics altogether, but that Dean is the driving
force that will allow it to happen -- and our coordination, and a close
connection to the campaign, will be the synergy necessary to make it
work. In my vision, Howard Dean will not just mention Meetups on the
stump, but setting up Dean Community Sites. I really believe this is the
next phase of the revolution -- and I'm sorry if you're feeling some of
the constraints, but I hope you decide that they are worth it.

Thanks so much,

Z


Zephyr Teachout
Internet Organizing  Outreach
Dean for America
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup
Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com
Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of CMR
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 10:49 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Re: Legal Issues and dodo birds

 I talked to our lawyer again and he urged me STRONGLY to please ask
you
 guys not to deal with legal issues. This is different than Meetup
hosts,
 where people are looking for legal advice as independent groups, and
not
 coordinated with the campaign. Since we're working together, and
 building a product the campaign will offer as a service, it is
critical
 that all legal decisions be made by Eric.


Observation time boys and girls:

As this thread develops, I think it's becoming clear just what the
difference is in becoming a movement of Dean  as opposed to one for
Dean. I'm not passing judgment here, but just making the observation

[hackers] And now for something completely different...

2003-07-23 Thread Aldon Hynes
I'ld like to thank everyone for their work on different themes.  I've loaded
Dean01 and bluesky into my sandbox, along with my own theme.  Feel free to
come by and compare the three themes with somewhat live data.

I've also set up a poll,
http://ahynes1.homeip.net:8180/drupal/index.php?q=node/view/20 in my
sandbox.  It's purpose is to get a better view of the age distribution of
Dean supporters.  If you haven't voted, please do and encourage others to do
so.

Yesterday, I ended up in a chat using a web-irc tool that indianafordean has
up.  It turns out that indianafordean is using Drupal.  You should check out
there site at http://indianafordean.org/ and check out their chat at
http://indianafordean.org/chat

I mentioned Hack4Dean a bit with them in my discussions yesterday.  I got
the impression that they are watching from a distance.  Hopefully we can
help them and they can learn from us.

As a final note, I will be around this evening, but I am leaving early
tomorrow morning for Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, where we will be listening
to some good music, and doing some flyering/tabling (depending on how things
work out).  Because of this, I shall be unavailable for the next several
days.

Aldon



RE: [hackers] is an automatic installation script feasible?

2003-07-22 Thread Aldon Hynes
I think automating the install sounds like a very good idea.  However, I
have quite a few concerns on this, which I will go through and list, as well
as some of the possible solutions.

First, there is the issue of what database is going to be used.  So far,
everything has been in MySQL.  However, there may end up being installations
that will want or need to use MS SQL Server.  I've been trying to get MS SQL
Server up and running.  Moshe tells me that it is fairly easy, but I haven't
seen that yet.

Ruling out SQL Server for the time being, we do have the problem of only
having access to one database from an ISP.  I don't know how likely this is
going to be, but it is a problem we need to be aware of and ready to handle.
I like the idea of all drupal tables starting with Drupal_ or even better,
starting with a prefix defined in conf.php (That way you could have multiple
drupals defined within the same database).  However, my guess is that that
would be a major change to Drupal, affecting every module.

That said, should we start doing something like that for our development?
(I would be especially interested in Moshe's opinion here).

Perhaps a bigger problem is, what happens if multiple people want to use the
same ISP?  In that case they will have to have different database names.  We
must make sure that our script is capable of handling that smoothly.  My
guess is that this has a potential to be a bit of a problem.  If an ISP
turns out to be a 'good host' we may find a lot of people wanting to use the
same host.

To get around some of this, my gut feeling is that a database dump is not a
good way to go.  Instead an SQL script may make more sense.  We should see
what is involved in writing the SQL to insert or update rows that will do
the configuration.  This is likely to be more usable by more people.

The next big issue, and this isn't so much of a technological issue, is to
determine what the default configuration should be.  Will we turn on blogs?
Will we turn of Forums?  Will we turn on Static Pages?  And who will get to
see what?  Will anonymous users be able to see content? Will we turn on the
jabber module?  Will we have default imports and/or exports?

Currently, it seems like we have at least five different sandboxes, and each
sandbox seems pretty different.  I think we need to work towards a concensus
about what the standard install should look like.

Enough random thoughts for right now.

Aldon



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ka-Ping Yee
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:57 AM
To: Neil Drumm
Cc: Hack4Dean List
Subject: Re: [hackers] is an automatic installation script feasible?


On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On this same line of thinking, (perhaps Moshe will know this best), is it
 feasible to customize a sandbox with everything we want - right themes,
 right modules - and then package that for distribution?

Great idea.  I totally agree -- we definitely should (and can) do this.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Neil Drumm wrote:
 We can easily make a tarball of Drupal with our extra modules and
 themes in all the right places.
[...]
 An install.php could definately handle the database installation.

With a little additional cleverness it ought to be possible to
configure include/conf.php using a setup.php script as well.

 As for something that goes through and configures everything in
 the admin pages, maybe a database dump?

Yes, i'm pretty sure that will do the trick.  All the settings
(modules, themes, blocks, etc. etc.) are stored in the database as
far as i can tell.  So when we want to do a release, we just set up
an empty instance of Drupal and freeze it by dumping the tables.

Then the user installation procedure is reduced to:

1. Upload our tarball to your web site and unpack it.
2. Use your ISP's admin interface to create a new MySQL database.
3. Visit setup.php and follow the instructions.

How important do you think the case is where people won't be able
to create a new database for Drupal, and will instead have to use
an existing database?  Are there lots of ISPs that only give you
one database?

If that case turns out to be important, we might want to consider
modifying Drupal so all the table names have a common prefix like
drupal_ (just like Movable Type has mt_), so that it's safe
to merge all the tables into an existing database; then step 2
becomes optional and installation is reduced to steps 1 and 3.


-- ?!ng



RE: [hackers] node hosting

2003-07-22 Thread Aldon Hynes
Should this go into the Wikki?

Should we set up a Wikki page with lists current possible hosting sites?

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of jim sloan
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] node hosting


I said it was taking too much energy not wasting it - my point was not to
drop it.  I
suggest that a working group should investigate and define the legal
parameters that would apply to any group that would want to provide web
presence to a grass roots political campaign.  In turn that information can
be used by the h4d group to advise groups that want to host it
themselves and it will also define how h4d could offer a hosting service for
groups that need to leap that technical hurdle with some help.

regards
jim

- Original Message -
From: CMR [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [hackers] node hosting


  I've been following this for most of today and I am concerned that this
  bifurcation is taking too much energy.  What I think needs to happen is
  that the legal issues need to be spelled out for anyone that would want
  to host a site (regardless of candidate).  This information can be used
  by any interested party to host whatever they want.
 

 I don't think that hosting is a problem for the h4d project. But if we
 have the information that relates to the above then we can help the
 grass root nodes avoid problems. It would then assist the h4d group in
 answering these questions from parties interested in using the h4d
 branded Drupal.

 If I'm correct, the issue of our hosting turn key solutions was never
 settled one way or another. Zach revived that topic for discussion with
his
 message this AM. This list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is, at least in part,
for
 discussing issues of project wide scope, both present and future, and
 discussing project mission.

 Also, if I am correct, the developers list was created for immediate
 development issues just so those who didn't want to receive non-directly
 development related issue related posts don't have to.

 Whether or not the turn key idea is a waste of energy or not, my offer
 was to help out if the eventual consensus was that we wanted to offer that
 feature. I'm fine with it if we decide against that, but I think we ought
to
 be allowed to discuss the merits of the idea, if any,  in order to reach
 that consensus.

 Thanks
 CMR

 --enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here--





RE: [hackers] Names and Domains

2003-07-20 Thread Aldon Hynes
One of the people in Connecticut set up ct.fordean.com  It turns out that
the fordean.com domain is available for different groups to use.  They also
host many of the sites.

Currently, they do not have PHP and the SQL they have is in Access
databases.  However, they are talking about getting PHP installed.  Several
people hosting there have asked for it.

Essentially, the cost would be the cost that fordean.com, probably a couple
hundred bucks.  Beyond that, they are mostly supporting people for free,
unless they end up using a lot of bandwidth through videos.  Then, they
might rethink their policy.

For more info, go to www.fordean.com  I've spoken with both Jesse and Mike
and the best contact is Jesse Gordon.  His contact information is at the
bottom of the page.

Aldon

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Neil Drumm
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:21 AM
To: Hack4Dean List
Subject: Re: [hackers] Names and Domains


Domains are easy to come by. We need to find some servers. Anything
supporting PHP and SQL will do. Hoefully we will find some grassroots
organizations with hosts, but we, as shown by the current state of
americansfordean.com, need reliable servers with bandwidth to survive a
campaign.

-Neil

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim: ndrumm3
http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Howard Vicini wrote:


 Josh  all,

 I have sent this information before, but maybe you weren't thinking along
 these lines yet ...

 I already own www.dean4america.us  and, as I have said, I registered it
for
 just such a purpose ...

 I thought perhaps the '4' vs 'for' could become the subtle, distinguishing
 factor between volunteer vs official Dean sites ... er, nodes ...

 You are welcome to it, and I am willing to give up ownership to the group,
 as long as you are certain that you will put it to use.

 Howard2


 - Original Message -
 From: Joshua Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:55 PM
 Subject: [hackers] Names and Domains


 
  Hey all,
 
  My hometown Meetup group in Eugene (lane county) somehow got the
  following domain for their activities:
 
  http://dean2004.lane.or.us/
 
  I'll inquire. If there's free country namespace nationwide, this could
  be a good option for our network users.
 
  cheers
  -josh
 
  
  Politics is the art of controlling your environment. Participate!
  Elect Howard Dean President in 2004!
  http://www.outlandishjosh.com/politics/dean/
 
 
 






RE: [hackers] Names and Domains

2003-07-20 Thread Aldon Hynes
There is not a $250 personal max.

If you spend more than $250 of your own money on a campaign, independent of
the official campaign, there is a special form you need to file with the
FEC.  Essentially, from what I have read, it boils down to three categories.

1) Official donations.  This what gets contributed to Burlington.  There is
a limit of $2000/individual in the primary.  You will be able to contribute
another $2000 in the general election.

2) PAC Donations.  This is to organizations that are working on behalf of
specific issues.  I don't know all the details on PAC donations, but if you
get together with a bunch of friends and do more than $250 together on
something, you may need to register as a PAC.

3) Individual expeditures.  This has been discussed a bit over on the
DeanMeetupHelp mailing list, which has a bunch of lawyers on it answering
campaign finance questions (with the general disclaimer that it is for
general guidance only etc)  From their FAQ comes the following information:

QUESTION 3: If an individual or an X for Dean group makes an independent
expenditure (paying for a public communication that expressly advocates
election of Dean or defeat of Bush or other candidates) then is there a
requirement to make an FEC report?

ANSWER: Expenditures that total less than $250 during a calendar year can be
made without requiring a report. If the expenditures of an individual or
group
exceed $250 then an independent expenditure report (FEC Form 5) must be
filed
with the FEC.

Any individual who has contributed more than than $200 in support of another
individual or group's independent expenditure must be identified within the
FEC
Form 5. (See 2 U.S.C. ~ 434(c)(1), (c)(2)(C); 11 CFR 109.10(b), (e)(1)(vi)).

Example 1: Volunteer Jane spends $250 for Dean for President posters.
Because the total does not exceed $250, no report is required.

Example 2: After spending $250 for Dean for President posters in June,
Jane
pays $100 for Defeat Bush posters in December. Because the calendar year
total exceeds $250, Jane must file FEC Form 5.

Example 3: Same facts as Example 2, except Bill gives Jane $225 in August to
support Jane's poster efforts. Jane must fill out FEC form 5 since the $250
limit has been exceeded and Jane must identify Bill in the FEC Form 5
because
Bill's contribution exceeds $200.

and

QUESTION 12: If in supporting Dean a volunteer uses his or own personal
property, such as a home computer, software, e-mail account or fax machine,
all
previously acquired for purposes other than this campaign, is the volunteer
making either an in-kind contribution to the Dean committee or an
independent
expenditure?

ANSWER: A volunteer's use at home of his or her personal equipment,
software,
Internet access, e-mail accounts, etc. is covered by a home use exception.
These activities are not in-kind contributions or independent expenditures.
A
volunteer's costs to register a domain name for a home-run website to
support
Dean is covered by this exception, as is a volunteer's downloading and use
of
Dean committee materials, even when the Dean committee gives the volunteer
permission to do so. (See FEC Advisory Opinion No. 1999-17-- issued to none
other than the Governor George W. Bush for President Exploratory Committee,
Inc.!)

There is a lot more to this subject and I would be willing to talk to
whomever on more details if necessary.

Aldon