Re: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown' sites and DeanSpace
I have been busy with other project lately myself and have been hanging back like Dave, but this is something I thought I should really speak up on. I know the idea is to make it "easy" for people to use the kit and get their sites up and running in no time. I installed a drupal test site a while back, and had some other non programmer/ non web people look at the admin interface. Their main issue was that the admin interface was far from "easy" to understand. dale said, "Will there be some sort of promotional sandbox? "Here...look how powerful and easy this kit is to use?" Something along those lines???" We can certainly sell everyone on the idea of the functionality of this "kit", but honestly I don't think we will be able to show how "easy" to use it is unless we redesign the admin interface somewhat because it is not exactly "easy" or intuitive for the average user to understand. Given this I think it will make it even less likely that people who already have sites running to want to switch over, and make people who aren't very technically savy, intimidated at the very least. I know something similar to this has been talked about before, and I realize that it is mostly the terminology that Drupal uses that can be misleading or hard to understand. Since redesigning the admin interface would take too long, perhaps rewriting the documentation to more of a step by step tutorial with diagrams/screen shots to make setup and use as easy as possible. Basically what I am saying is that we may need a "DeanSpace Drupal for Dummies" guide or something to make it as "easy" as possible. Is this being done or has it been assigned? If not what do you all think? As for seperate modules, I think it would be a good idea to offer the basics for communicating to the network of sites. The problem is knowing what to design for in terms of languages and having a database or not. We need to figure out what group of people will not want to switch and why. Then target that group with the seperate modules. If we create great insturctions for the "kits", as suggested above, then I think the only people who will not want to switch we be those who have already devleoped tools for themselves and have already made interactive/dynamic sites. So I believe that those most likely to not switch, i.e. need seperate, non drupal dependent modules are the more technically proficient people believe it or not. So if this is the group we are targeting then these seperate modules should probably be made with ASP and PHP and be made to work with several different databases. Just my 2 cents err or maybe 3 or 4 ;) Toro --- Dave Pentecost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello all > > I've been onboard since early on, basically lurking > and following the > email exchanges. But I'm glad that Josh S. has > brought back the idea of > non-Drupal modules. I suggested a while back that > there be an MT module > for bloggers, to put into a sidebar. I think that if > we reach out to some > of the more political webloggers using MT we could > get help creating and > distributing it. > > While you folks are busy with Drupal, I'll start > looking into this angle. > If anybody has additional ideas on separate modules, > let me know. > > Dave Pentecost __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
RE: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown' sites and DeanSpace
Dave et al -- As I said last night in the chat, I think the modules will be the most heavily used part of this -- already tech-savvy groups will want to hook into aspects, but not all, of this service. In fact, I think introducing the service as module or site will vastly increase the likelihood of it catching on and connecting communities. Thanks so much Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Pentecost Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown' sites and DeanSpace Hello all I've been onboard since early on, basically lurking and following the email exchanges. But I'm glad that Josh S. has brought back the idea of non-Drupal modules. I suggested a while back that there be an MT module for bloggers, to put into a sidebar. I think that if we reach out to some of the more political webloggers using MT we could get help creating and distributing it. While you folks are busy with Drupal, I'll start looking into this angle. If anybody has additional ideas on separate modules, let me know. Dave Pentecost I expect no one to > be excited about abandoning their current sites... I > expect few to be enthusiastic _beyond the initial > excitement_ about maintaining an additional site that > does not contribute to their current, "homegrown" > sites. So could we develop stand-alone (non-drupal) > modules (in php, asp, jsp, others? or perhaps just > one, in client-side javascript?) that groups can put > on their current sites, that will display (not alter, > just display) the RSS feeds, thereby allowing a > measure of integration between "homegrown" sites and > DeanSpace nodes? Autonomy being the foundation of a > grassroots movement, we don't want people to feel like > DeanSpace is hijacking or upstaging their own work. > > Better yet, do such stand-alone modules already exist, > GPL'd, and do they need to be expanded for our needs? > Will we provide these as part of (or alongside) our > kit? > > Peace, > Josh Swartzbaugh > [Madoc] > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between 'homegrown' sites and DeanSpace
Hello all I've been onboard since early on, basically lurking and following the email exchanges. But I'm glad that Josh S. has brought back the idea of non-Drupal modules. I suggested a while back that there be an MT module for bloggers, to put into a sidebar. I think that if we reach out to some of the more political webloggers using MT we could get help creating and distributing it. While you folks are busy with Drupal, I'll start looking into this angle. If anybody has additional ideas on separate modules, let me know. Dave Pentecost I expect no one to > be excited about abandoning their current sites... I > expect few to be enthusiastic _beyond the initial > excitement_ about maintaining an additional site that > does not contribute to their current, "homegrown" > sites. So could we develop stand-alone (non-drupal) > modules (in php, asp, jsp, others? or perhaps just > one, in client-side javascript?) that groups can put > on their current sites, that will display (not alter, > just display) the RSS feeds, thereby allowing a > measure of integration between "homegrown" sites and > DeanSpace nodes? Autonomy being the foundation of a > grassroots movement, we don't want people to feel like > DeanSpace is hijacking or upstaging their own work. > > Better yet, do such stand-alone modules already exist, > GPL'd, and do they need to be expanded for our needs? > Will we provide these as part of (or alongside) our > kit? > > Peace, > Josh Swartzbaugh > [Madoc] > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [hackers] Easing potential conflict between "homegrown" sites and DeanSpace
I missed last night's meeting...sorry but I'm a day behind. uhm...what year is this?? ;) My (too many) thoughts. IMO DeanSpace (or whatever it will be called...I have NO clue)...the "kit" people will download and install.will be a godsend for many with existing sites (have you seen some of the sites up now...most born out of the meetups??) They are uninviting and little more than online flyers. It will take about 20 minutes (if that to set up) a Drupal and site maintenance will be minimal..content dynamic. It's too powerful to fight ;) Some will resist change certainlybut give the RIAA 10 more years and see where *they* end up ;) I could and should stop there but Speaking from personal experience with my local group There are few with the time available or skills to maintain a homegrown site. The only reason I didn't throw one up was because a) there seemed to be little interest I started a MT blog and 3 people used it 2 or 3 times. Learning curve was too steep apparently. I know my folks like Yahoo Groups... it's easy. Open...ReplySend(Here's the important partDelete!) This does nothing for creating real connections much less enable effective communication and organizing...among other things. (And I'm really sick of getting 10 emails pointing me to the same article about Dean). That's about all my Yahoo Group is these days. We were told..not asked bit told not so nicely...a flame war ensued) to refrain from free and open discussion by some irate I dunno how to read and don't wanna be spammed by yahoo ads the web list members. The Yahoo list was simply for Dean meetup related announcements/organizing only. Fun stuff eh? Connection making was squashed and in fact for my group, the yahoo list has become somewhat divisive. We had one person who cancelled a house party because she couldn't generate enough interest...yet my town has (at last check) around 400 signed up at MeetUp.com...and over 200 on the Yahoo Group. There is now confusion over where next weeks meetup is because meetup is telling people that there are two locations...but word on the Yahoo list is that the meeting will be at one location and not the other. What's wrong with this picture besides the fact that email sucks and meetup.com offers little for means of control and communication?? My Yahoo Group isn't conducive to connection making nor information sharing. No one can find it unless they look specifically for it. What uninitiated person wondering about Dean is gonna think "hey...lemme see if there's a local Yahoo Group for Dean?" How effective are online flyers? What about those who don't like mailing lists? Re: the cancelled house partysimply preaching to the choir...there's no real outreacheveryone's on the list is given/giving...they don't need a house party to learn about Dean or give more. Personally, I'd rather press a button to give Dean $25, than hang out at a stranger's house on a Saturday night. Ok so call me anti-social. ;) The meetups are great..but my experience has been that they don't do much for creating lasting connections between people...nor do website flyers or Yahoo Groups or weblogs that people can't seem to figure out how to use. People go to meetups..get excited..then mundane life distracts them until the next meetup. It seems to me the kit will make it not only possible but easier for people to make and maintain connections, stay motivated and hence be productive for the cause. Who could say no to that..other than some control I wanna do it my hard and ineffective way freak ;) I may be blind but I can't see how anyone could (rightly) interpret this as hijacking..unless they are just 'that' way. The tools are available to use...or not...there's always the choice. And secondly..I didn't just throw up site because I don't have time to be designer, webmaster, content developer and tech support person. Simply put...the 'kit' works for me and will work for my local group...and hence the Doc. Bottoms up I say ;) Although, point certainly taken here..if ya can't beat 'em...join 'em. And there will certainly be those who simply can't migrate for whatever reason(s). I don't know how feasible stand alone mods are though??? Maybe that could be something left as an after thought...if possible and if there really is enough demand for such things? Has this already been addressed..I'm behind a day..or year...remember.? ;) Will there be some sort of promotional sandbox? "Here...look how powerful and easy this kit is to use?" Something along those lines??? dale Josh Swartzbaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello everyone!First I'd like to say that I'm very happy to be a partof this group. :) Uniting the various Dean movementsis going to be one of the most important pieces of thepuzzle to change this country's direction. It's notoften that you can feel that you are really making adifference in the world, and I bel
