RE: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-28 Thread Aldon Hynes
And Ryze...

Who else is on Ryze?

I'm ahynes1 there.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Joshua Koenig
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for
Dean



>> We then want to implement a "mothership" node which can track all the
>> multivariate RSS feeds which are produced and be a go-to source for
>> people looking for information on Dean, or who want to get a birds-eye
>> view of what's going on in the Dean online universe. Think Technorati,
>> but specifically tailored for the Dean web. We also want to implement
>> (in close coordination with the campaign) a centralized site to
>> organize active volunteers in a social network ala Friendster or Ryze.




Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-28 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 09:32:01PM -0700, Ka-Ping Yee wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > NNTP.
> 
> You do realize that what we are doing is rebuilding much of
> what NNTP is supposed to do, don't you?

Of course I do.  That's precisely why I recommended you use the
infrastructure and tools already extant.

> That's slightly tongue-in-cheek -- but only slightly.  Multiple
> sites aggregating articles, sharing articles with each other,
> updating each other on new posts: it's been done, and it's called
> Usenet.  Of course we're adding user authentication, nice graphics,
> and more structured data -- but it's worth noting that Usenet
> didn't work by having every site poll every other site for updates.
> 
> Just something to think about.

And it's *also* worth noting that it's *miserable* -- I mean *REALLY REALLY*
painful, to follow more than about 4 web forums, run on different sites,
hosted by different software packages, with different command structures, and
different signons.

Stipulated, some percentage of the crowd will *only* ever go here...

but I'm inclined to think that's a smaller percentage than might seem
obvious... and that the proper solution is to build a web-based NNTP client
front end and use the already existant infrastructure which is tuned for
that, instead of rebuilding the wheel.

MIME is not real popular on traditional Usenet, but no reason you can't use
it in a custom implementation on top...

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100
The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think
Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

   OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows
-- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c


Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-27 Thread Lynn Siprelle
NNTP.
Well, and why the hell not! :)

Lynn S.

-
Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan
The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/
Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/
People-Powered Howard! http://www.deanforamerica.com/


RE: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-27 Thread Kurt Cagle
I've performed a final update on the source dateBook schema
And have posted an XSD for the document at
http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?EnhancedRSSSchema

Changes include the following:

I've created a new element called an  that can be used when
announcing a simple event with no need for highly structured scheduling
information. An  can be a top-level element, but when you have a
collection of events together that are at least somewhat related, you should
generally place them within a  wrapper.

A  can in turn handle zero or more events and zero or more
schedules. A schedule is divided into tracks, and a track in turn is divided
into sessions. This makes it possible to create schedules within day-views
of events.

I've added the optional  element to the 
element.  and  are mutually exclusive, you cannot
have both simultaneously. If neither  or  is
included, the assumption is made that the event will take place for 1 hour.

I've added  elements to , , , 
and  elements. This will use the taxonomy utilized by the Dropal
taxonomy module.

I'm working on the media namespace now, and it will likely be a hybrid SMIL
document, but I'm still deciding how well that works.

-- Kurt Cagle




RE: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-27 Thread Kurt Cagle

I used to be a big fan of newsgroups, but I've fallen out of love with them
for a number of reasons. They are incredibly difficult to moderate, keeping
them free from SPAM is difficult at best, and it's a metaphor that people
are going to less and less. I'd say that if we were going to set up a
newsgroup, it should be pretty far down the priority list.

-- Kurt

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jay R. Ashworth
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for
Dean

On Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 08:18:46PM -0700, Lynn Siprelle wrote:
> On mailing lists vs bulletin boards: I'm with you on that one. Mailing 
> lists scale much better than bulletin boards, except that searching a 
> Yahoo group sucks rocks. I'm hep with the gateway vibe myself.

> Discuss. :)

NNTP.

I know everyone seems to want to go ape over "how complicated it is"
and "how no one seems to know how to use it", but, you know, "Death
of Usenet Predicted; Film at 11".  And it *is* designed for that sort
of discussion.

Flutterby, among other basically-web-forum-y venues has just built an
NNTP backend to allow the use of a news client to follow discussions.

So why *not* dean.*

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC
2100
The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think
Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647
1274

   OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows
-- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c



Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-27 Thread Jay R. Ashworth
On Sat, Jul 26, 2003 at 08:18:46PM -0700, Lynn Siprelle wrote:
> On mailing lists vs bulletin boards: I'm with you on that one. Mailing 
> lists scale much better than bulletin boards, except that searching a 
> Yahoo group sucks rocks. I'm hep with the gateway vibe myself.

> Discuss. :)

NNTP.

I know everyone seems to want to go ape over "how complicated it is"
and "how no one seems to know how to use it", but, you know, "Death
of Usenet Predicted; Film at 11".  And it *is* designed for that sort
of discussion.

Flutterby, among other basically-web-forum-y venues has just built an
NNTP backend to allow the use of a news client to follow discussions.

So why *not* dean.*

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100
The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think
Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274

   OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows
-- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c


Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean

2003-07-26 Thread Lynn Siprelle
This is long, forgive me. I started to respond to this in depth but I 
found myself repeating myself a lot, so I'm going to sum up (believe it 
or not, this is the summary). I don't speak for the group, I can only 
speak from my understanding, but my understanding is this:

On coercing other sites into using our kit: This is A tool, not THE 
tool. Folks are welcome to use whatever tools they've got. We're 
focusing on drupal because we think we can easily set it up both as 
modules for existing drupal sites to drop in and also as a kit folks 
can roll out and have an easy-to-work with set of tools. I am fond of 
saying I am a designer who learned to program in self-defense, and 
granted, I am a quick study but I'm not THAT quick and in the last 
month I've written three themes and a couple of modules, and I have two 
more themes underway. If we do this right, we will have a kit that 
allows you to run an install script from the web and bing you're ready 
to go--if you choose to use the hack4dean/DeanSpace install.

On mailing lists vs bulletin boards: I'm with you on that one. Mailing 
lists scale much better than bulletin boards, except that searching a 
Yahoo group sucks rocks. I'm hep with the gateway vibe myself.

On feeds: Let's say I'm the webmaster of Oregon4Dean. (I have no idea 
if there is one, I haven't looked yet. If there isn't, I think I just 
volunteered myself. K.) I don't have time to search through every 
weblog in/about Oregon to find the ones for Howard Dean--and I even 
know how. I'd rather depend on my software to allow interested people 
to set up a political blog if they'd like on my site, and then rely on 
the networking/syndication tools to send that info up and down the 
hierarchy.* I myself have two blogs, three if you count the hack4dean 
one I'm running at Kombucha Brewers for Dean. One is my ezine's blog, 
where I try to cover news that's important to my readers, one is at my 
religious website where I cover news related to earth spirituality 
(where I run drupal), and once there's a local or virtual Dean 
community I want to join I'll probably get a political one going too. I 
don't like cluttering up my more site-specific blogs with other issues 
like politics other than occasional mentions. I imagine I'm not the 
only experienced blogger who feels that way, for one, and for seconds, 
if this works the way we think it's going to, we'll be bringing in a 
lot of folks who've never even HEARD the word "blog" before and getting 
them excited about the possibilities (I'm watching this happen right 
now on my religious site and we're not even involved in something as 
exciting as a grassroots campaign). People who want to opt out of this 
aggregation, that's fine, opt out. It's all good, as the kids say these 
days.

On hosting: We've been going around and around about the feasibility of 
setting up a host of our own and I'm staying out of that one. Under FEC 
rules, if I'm understanding this right, my corporation Siprelle & 
Associates Inc. can contribute $2000 worth of hosting services. It 
charges $10/mo under "family and friends" rate for hosting that 
includes PHP, MySQL, email and blah de blah, so that works out to 200 
months of hosting. Let's say we go all the way, and we have every 
reason to believe we're headed for November '04 . That works out to 
about 14 sites for 14 months, if they were established today. So we 
line up 1,000 people and companies like S&A, and you know we're out 
there. I don't think that's such a tall order. I really don't. And this 
is if we make things official or whatever. I am so not following the 
FEC conversations, I am just trying to keep my nose clean and code.

Discuss. :)

Lynn S.

*Having said this, a blog/site registration module to allow bloggers 
and site managers with RSS feeds to register their feeds at DeanSpace 
sites and add them to the Dean aggregation/distribution of info is not 
a bad idea. DON'T LOOK AT ME, I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO PROGRAM SOMETHING 
LIKE THIS. Well, actually, I think I might if it's just registering the 
feed. oh god, what have I done...