Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: On 21 May 2010 09:15, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010, Eli Billauer wrote about Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?: Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. While I agree that nobody owes anybody anything, I don't think this is a valid attitude. You have to remember that even if nobody is in charge of haifux, the lecturer often hasn't got any clue on any of the details. Just as an example, when I gave my Hspell presentation a couple of months ago, I had a few moments of worry. First, the fascists at the gate didn't let me in - apparently they didn't get the fax that was suppsosed to have been sent by someone in Haifux. After 10 minutes of arguments, and help from a chaver telefoni (Orna), they let me in. I usually arrange the entrance to the Technion. Going through the fine archives, I see that nobody requested ahead of time to arrange entrance. I will try to contact lecturers from now on, to ask if they need entrance to the Technion. Thanks for letting me know that this may be a problem. That projector isn't exactly national security... What would it hurt to duplicate the key and give it to many Haifux regulars? How difficult is it to have a smoother car-permit process? Blaming the presenters on not taking care of these things is a bit silly, I think. I think that the process is as smooth as it can be: just let me know. However, if it is not known that I should be contacted, that is a problem! Additionally, there is no place to store such a duplicate key for the projector. There are no regulars. The key is not mine to duplicate. To get the key I went to Bracha Cohen, in charge of teaching in the faculty, and signed a consent form, in which I promise to uphold CS faculty regulations. Since I am not a TA in the faculty, she did me a favor by letting me have the key at all. Duplicating the key would be a breach of trust. I remind you all that before that, we did not have a key at all for years, since both Orr and Alon Altman graduated. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
Hello all, I hoped that this thread would die out sooner or later, but I realize that people have a lot on their minds. To the plain user, the critical difference between free software and the one you pay for, is that you don't have a number to call when something goes wrong. I know, there are companies offering support. But the classic model was that users looked for the solutions by themselves, and most of us still work that way. The argument always was, that searching for the answer on the web will take more or less the same time as explaining the problem to some tech support person, only the web is more likely to help you. And that even though free software isn't managed centrally, it evolves to become better than software developed by an organized team. And it just so happens that Haifux is running like a free software project. I'm not saying that everything's been 100% all the time, but somehow this system got Haifux a vast variety of lectures and glitches comparable with organized events. The issue about this last event is not where Orna or I were. The question is why the system failed. My personal impression is that the reason was more like people expecting a customer support. Had there been some good-old Nobody solved the problem, so I'll solve it spirit around, we wouldn't have an incident to discuss at all. What really worries me is not lecture organizations. I'm sure everyone is informed enough by now, so this will not happen again. What worries me, is that as recent Linux distros talk to us in terms of Windows (lean back, the system now fixes your problem, don't ask me what I'm doing) that kind of spirit takes over the way we think. And if that's where we going, we will all be served by companies we depend on sooner or later, and it won't matter anymore whether the software is free or not, because we will be hostages to our supported distro providers. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
As Orna had already pointed out there is usually someone there to take care of stuff, and once in a while there isn't. It is not the presenter's fault (and if this was implied than this was a problem), but as I've written earlier - for future reference, ask Moti, or call one of us. Specifically, this time it was a mess due to unfortunate personal circumstances. As for your email Nadav, I strongly disagree. On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: Just as an example, when I gave my Hspell presentation a couple of months ago, I had a few moments of worry. First, the fascists at the gate didn't let me in - apparently they didn't get the fax that was suppsosed to have been sent by someone in Haifux. While I do not like the security at the entrance to the Technion, and find them annoying, they are far from fascists. Due to many reasons, there is an access control at the Technion (not only due to security reasons, btw), and the fact that someone tries to enforce this, does not make him (or her) into a fascist. Yes, the policy sucks, but please blame the responsible people for that (namely, Kabat Hatechnion, Israeli Police, and some parts of the Chamas, as well as thieves). Please remember that some (?) of the Haifux presenters haven't been in that lecture room in years. Some of them haven't been in the Technion in years - if at all. How exactly do you expect them to manage on their own?? Usually there is at least one person who knows who to talk to or knows Orna/Eli/My cell phones. We also try to communicate with the lecturer before hand, if neither of us has his phone number (so we could call the lecturer). That projector isn't exactly national security... What would it hurt to duplicate the key and give it to many Haifux regulars? Yes. It would. These are the regulations of the CS department at the technion that allows us the use of its facility. If you find a better location in Haifa - we can consider moving there, but until then, they are our hosts, and as such, we follow their regulations, to the latter. How difficult is it to have a smoother car-permit process? In the Technion - terribly. This affects not only lecturers at haifux (which again a donation of the CS department), but also real issues within the technion (try to be a girl being dropped off at night at the gate, 'coz the security guard refuses your companion to give you a ride to your dorms). For sake of fairness, there used to be some mechanisms in the past to bend slightly the rules, but they all had their own downsides. Just to put you at ease, even I, as a lecturer of a course at the Technion, and an advisor of a masters student at the Technion has to suffer the stupid regulations. Blaming the presenters on not taking care of these things is a bit silly, I think. The only point I agree with. In the real world, when I present in a conference, or invited to a meeting, or whatever, all I have to do is show up on time, with whatever I was asked to bring in advance. I don't have to verify in advance (how can I?) that the other side's meeting room will be open, or that the projector I was told in advance that they have wouldn't be locked. If I'm told I can come with my car, I expect that to be true, and again, don't need to verify that this is indeed true. Please recall that we are hosted at the Technion, not a real part of the Technion. And yes, as the person who gets the free horse, you need to check the teeth. Orr. -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: C2D5 C6D6 9A24 9A95 C5B3 2023 6CAB 4A7C B73F D0AA (This key will never sign Emails, only other PGP keys. The key corresponds to o...@vipe.technion.ac.il) ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
This discussion is a bit off-topic, but just to explain myself, On Sat, May 22, 2010, Orr Dunkelman wrote about Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?: While I do not like the security at the entrance to the Technion, and find them annoying, they are far from fascists. Due to many reasons, there is an access control at the Technion (not only due to security reasons, btw), and the fact that someone tries to enforce this, does not make him (or her) into a fascist. I did not mean they are fascists in the sense that they like to kill Jews or that they started a world war. I did *not* say they were nazis, I said fascists. The key point about fascists was that they believed that the state is more important than the individuals in it. While other political systems believe that the state was set up by the inviduals to serve them (e.g., read the preamble of the U.S. declaration of independence), in fascism, the belief is the other way around - that the state is what is important, and the individuals exist to serve it. To return to the nimshal, while I was in the Technion, I got too often the feeling that the security guards forgot that they are there to serve the needs the people of the technion (senior faculty, junior faculty, employees at least - even if we forget about the students). They started to get the feeling that it is the other way around - that the faculty are there to serve them. I've heard horror stories of all kind. One PhD student who lived in the technion and delivered some furniture in, and the guards refused to let the delivery in. One important guest invited by some faculty member who was denied entrence because a fax was misplaced. Faculty having to jump through hoops to get entrance permits despite being entitled to them. And more. Unfortunately, this is not specific to the technion. The saying goes that power corrupts. Unfortunately, it has a basis. Sorry to be (very) blunt, but this is how I feel. That projector isn't exactly national security... What would it hurt to duplicate the key and give it to many Haifux regulars? Yes. It would. These are the regulations of the CS department at the technion that allows us the use of its facility. So it is these regulations which caused the problem that the original poster complained about. If you're fine with that, than so am I. If you find a better location in Haifa - we can consider moving there, but until then, they are our hosts, and as such, we follow their regulations, to the latter. I had the impression that they were not just the hosts, many of you were PhD students there, and had some power there to change stupid rules into sensible rules (I'm talking about the projector now, not the entrance). I guess this impression was not accurate. How difficult is it to have a smoother car-permit process? In the Technion - terribly. This affects not only lecturers at haifux (which again a donation of the CS department), but also real issues within the technion (try to be a girl being dropped off at night at the gate, 'coz the security guard refuses your companion to give you a ride to your dorms). Hmm, remember what I said about security being the *goal*, rather than the *means*? You just gave another example. And yes, as the person who gets the free horse, you need to check the teeth. I guess that for years I had the wrong impression about Haifux. I always assumed that the presenter is doing the crowd a favor (and I remember in awe people like Guy Keren who gave dozens of lectures there). I didn't know that actually Haifux was doing the presenter a favor... Oh well ;-) Anyway, like I said, I'm not angry, and in my case everything went very well, thanks to Orna. I was just ranting on why everything needs to be so complicated when it really isn't. When I was a student in the Technion, I don't remember the blackboards - or even slide projectors - being locked in the afternoon. They were perhaps chained to the floor, but still operable. -- Nadav Har'El| Saturday, May 22 2010, 10 Sivan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |A language is a dialect with an army. http://nadav.harel.org.il | ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
It indeed went completely off topic. On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: To return to the nimshal, while I was in the Technion, I got too often the feeling that the security guards forgot that they are there to serve the needs the people of the technion (senior faculty, junior faculty, employees at least - even if we forget about the students). They started to get the feeling that it is the other way around - that the faculty are there to serve them. I've heard horror stories of all kind. One PhD student who lived in the technion and delivered some furniture in, and the guards refused to let the delivery in. One important guest invited by some faculty member who was denied entrence because a fax was misplaced. Faculty having to jump through hoops to get entrance permits despite being entitled to them. And more. I agree with the above statement. However, the word fascists is not the best one to describe that. So it is these regulations which caused the problem that the original poster complained about. If you're fine with that, than so am I. I am not happy with the regulations, but in the case of the projector, one needs to remember that projectors are very delicate pieces of equipment, and remotes were stolen (god knows why someone would steal a remote). The easiest way to solve the issue is to lock the remote. So in other words, while the regulations are annoying, some of them actually have good reasons, which follow the fact that not all the people in the world are nice ones. I had the impression that they were not just the hosts, many of you were PhD students there, and had some power there to change stupid rules into sensible rules (I'm talking about the projector now, not the entrance). I guess this impression was not accurate. The cs department has always agreed to offer us its facilities. We showed our gratitude in the past by taking the department's needs in W2L series. I guess both sides found (and still find) the entire solution reasonably useful, but at the same time, we need to remember that even grad students who are not TAs do not get access to the remotes. I guess that for years I had the wrong impression about Haifux. I always assumed that the presenter is doing the crowd a favor (and I remember in awe people like Guy Keren who gave dozens of lectures there). I didn't know that actually Haifux was doing the presenter a favor... Oh well ;-) The lecturer does the crowd a favour. The CS department does haifux a favor (and Dotan does the lecturer a favour). So... at the end of the process, the crowd gets double favours. So please pay back all of you who haven't given a lecture in a while. I don't remember the blackboards - or even slide projectors - being locked in the afternoon. They were perhaps chained to the floor, but still operable. But they were not abused at the same rate (a person leaving the projector on, or turning it on, for his/her amusement causes quite a lot of damage, as the bulbs of the projectors are expensive, a person taking the remote with him/her, causes even more damage). -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: C2D5 C6D6 9A24 9A95 C5B3 2023 6CAB 4A7C B73F D0AA (This key will never sign Emails, only other PGP keys. The key corresponds to o...@vipe.technion.ac.il) ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
On 21 May 2010 09:15, Nadav Har'El n...@math.technion.ac.il wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010, Eli Billauer wrote about Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?: Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. While I agree that nobody owes anybody anything, I don't think this is a valid attitude. You have to remember that even if nobody is in charge of haifux, the lecturer often hasn't got any clue on any of the details. Just as an example, when I gave my Hspell presentation a couple of months ago, I had a few moments of worry. First, the fascists at the gate didn't let me in - apparently they didn't get the fax that was suppsosed to have been sent by someone in Haifux. After 10 minutes of arguments, and help from a chaver telefoni (Orna), they let me in. I usually arrange the entrance to the Technion. Going through the fine archives, I see that nobody requested ahead of time to arrange entrance. I will try to contact lecturers from now on, to ask if they need entrance to the Technion. Thanks for letting me know that this may be a problem. That projector isn't exactly national security... What would it hurt to duplicate the key and give it to many Haifux regulars? How difficult is it to have a smoother car-permit process? Blaming the presenters on not taking care of these things is a bit silly, I think. I think that the process is as smooth as it can be: just let me know. However, if it is not known that I should be contacted, that is a problem! Additionally, there is no place to store such a duplicate key for the projector. There are no regulars. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
On Tue, May 11, 2010, Eli Billauer wrote about Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?: Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. While I agree that nobody owes anybody anything, I don't think this is a valid attitude. You have to remember that even if nobody is in charge of haifux, the lecturer often hasn't got any clue on any of the details. Just as an example, when I gave my Hspell presentation a couple of months ago, I had a few moments of worry. First, the fascists at the gate didn't let me in - apparently they didn't get the fax that was suppsosed to have been sent by someone in Haifux. After 10 minutes of arguments, and help from a chaver telefoni (Orna), they let me in. Then, when I came into the room, I found a locked computer and locked projector. I didn't know what to do until, again, Orna came and saved the day. So at the end, everything worked on my presentation (thanks again, Orna). Please remember that some (?) of the Haifux presenters haven't been in that lecture room in years. Some of them haven't been in the Technion in years - if at all. How exactly do you expect them to manage on their own?? That projector isn't exactly national security... What would it hurt to duplicate the key and give it to many Haifux regulars? How difficult is it to have a smoother car-permit process? Blaming the presenters on not taking care of these things is a bit silly, I think. the same rule applies in the real world. In the real world, when I present in a conference, or invited to a meeting, or whatever, all I have to do is show up on time, with whatever I was asked to bring in advance. I don't have to verify in advance (how can I?) that the other side's meeting room will be open, or that the projector I was told in advance that they have wouldn't be locked. If I'm told I can come with my car, I expect that to be true, and again, don't need to verify that this is indeed true. -- Nadav Har'El|Friday, May 21 2010, 8 Sivan 5770 n...@math.technion.ac.il |- Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Creativity consists of coming up with http://nadav.harel.org.il |many ideas, not just that one great idea. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
On 10 May 2010 22:52, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.com wrote: Dear All, For future reference: In case the desk with the projector equipment is locked, please go to the second floor, to room 203 (Alex Ratinzki's room), and ask Moti (who sits there) to open the projector at room 6. As for the organizers, we have other commitments, and we cannot arrive to all meetings, but usually there is at least one person in the audience who has the key (or knows Moti). For reference, Moti's (and his second-in-command, Alex) phone numbers: 04-829-4355 052-241-0243 -- Dotan Cohen http://bido.com http://what-is-what.com ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
The door should be open all night long - this room is dedicated to self-studying during the night. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Maxim Kovgan kovg...@gmail.com wrote: I think a good idea is to set up a chain of command as people do in the armies. It is also a good thing from organizational perspective. This chain of command should work with the faculty people (Moti or Alex or whoever), and not every willing lecturer. If the obliged representative is not able to arrive they *has to* ping the next in the chain, to at least make sure the door is open and for *the right* people (there are also some faculty security aspects - equipment had been stolen in the past) of course: IMHO. Regards. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Indeed, I intended to arrive, and I have even had a key during the last two semesters (but not before that - we managed without for years, as explained before). However, I was unable to come on the last minute. I am sorry there was nobody there who knew Moti should be contacted. This indeed will be fixed in the future as a part of the regular lecturer-inviting protocol. Orna. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello, Since I've been seen presenting the speaker in some talks, and sometimes even made sure the projector is available (even though I don't have the key myself), and I sometimes announce lectures, I suppose some people will consider myself as an organizer. But the truth is, that Haifux has been running for quote a few years without appointing anyone to organize the event. Exactly as in the free software world, the slots have been filled by whoever was there to fill them. I'm sorry to hear about today's mishap. It's a truly rare event, and it looks like the shortcircuit lies somewhere between myself and Orna. Personally, I had other things on my mind, and I actually wasn't aware that anything was planned for today. One lesson to learn is that a lecture announced on the same day is a bad omen. A second bad omen is when you're going to give a lecture, and you have no phone number whatsoever to call in case something goes wrong (stuck on the road, for example). It's actually true for any kind of appointment one makes. Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. It works almost always, but this time, it just didn't. And allow me to say, as someone who has delivered professional courses, that the same rule applies in the real world. Having said all this, I'd still like to apologize for the inconvenience. The few of us involved will make sure this will not happen again. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux -- Maxim Kovgan -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
Hello everyone, Indeed we had no luck yesterday. I was late, and I would like to apologize for that (I was at a funeral and had a traffic jam getting to Haifa) So I am really really sorry, Roy. If I had been in time, I might have remebered to go to the ahraii-binyan and get the key. This is the second time, lately, that we have problems. I cannot complain, putting no effort into organizing, however, we, [we= the whole haifux] should realize that in certain cases SOME logistics is required. Some cases: when (1) one of us gives a lecture, and just 4 people show up and there are organizational problems... we understand. BUT, when (2) a guy comes from Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem (faces traffic, or Bus travel and expenses AND TIME) and the same happens, Then... THIS should not happen. Shachar was, maybe, the first to put this in writing: he wrote on 02 Jun 2009 12:01:42 : giving a Haifux lecture requires some effort on my part. Aside from everything else, this requires getting out of work at about 4 pm and drive to Haifa, as well as ...[cut] All this I will gladly do, and enjoy it...[cut] I, on my part, am more than willing to leave work early, drive both direction and give the lecture, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO ONE THING IN RETURN. SHOW UP but you have to do one thing in return. Show up. (the uppercase in mine, Nir) So, in case (2) we (we=as above) should be reasonably sure that there be adequate audience and logistics. I am not counting the last meeting, run by Orr, who happens to have a key. very few people showed up. Orr also comes from rather far away... Apologies, Orr. Ram was there yesterday, and told me he has to work to prepare the lecture. Do we want to file this under case (2) ? Also, a guy called Sela (after consulting me) offered to give a lecture about something and got a reply Your message to Haifux awaits moderator approval -- awaits for how long ? This is not encouraging... If we do not want haifux to melt away and disappear like the cheshire cat, we should consider some method of knowing how many people will show up. a. If a given subject does not interest anyone - we can decline politely the offer. b. If on a given date, noone can come, we can ask to change the date. If we do nothing, we count on chance, and statistics does not work so well in small numbers. The last lecturer who came from far said : I considered it an honour to talk at haifux. then he added: There is an old Japanese saying, He who never climbs Mount Fuji is a fool, and he who climbs twice is twice the fool. So he concluded :I have given a lecture in Haifux, but, I'll not do it again. Roy is a CS student (6th semester) how was he impressed ? Do we want our lecturers to give one lecture and go away ? Nir. On Tue, 11 May 2010, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda wrote: The door should be open all night long - this room is dedicated to self-studying during the night. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Maxim Kovgan kovg...@gmail.com wrote: I think a good idea is to set up a chain of command as people do in the armies. It is also a good thing from organizational perspective. This chain of command should work with the faculty people (Moti or Alex or whoever), and not every willing lecturer. If the obliged representative is not able to arrive they *has to* ping the next in the chain, to at least make sure the door is open and for *the right* people(there are also some faculty security aspects - equipment had been stolen in the past) of course: IMHO. Regards. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, Indeed, I intended to arrive, and I have even had a key during the last two semesters (but not before that - we managed without for years, as explained before). However, I was unable to come on the last minute. I am sorry there was nobody there who knew Moti should be contacted. This indeed will be fixed in the future as a part of the regular lecturer-inviting protocol. Orna. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello, Since I've been seen presenting the speaker in some talks, and sometimes even made sure the projector is available (even though I don't have the key myself), and I sometimes announce lectures, I suppose some people will consider myself as an organizer. But the truth is, that Haifux has been running for quote a few years without appointing anyone to organize the event. Exactly as in the free software world, the slots have been filled by whoever was there to fill them. I'm sorry to hear about today's mishap. It's a truly rare event, and it looks like the shortcircuit lies somewhere between myself and Orna. Personally, I had other things on my mind, and I actually wasn't aware that anything was planned for today. One lesson to learn is that a lecture announced on the same day is a bad omen. A second bad omen is when you're going to give a
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, Indeed, I intended to arrive, and I have even had a key during the last two semesters (but not before that - we managed without for years, as explained before). However, I was unable to come on the last minute. I am sorry there was nobody there who knew Moti should be contacted. This indeed will be fixed in the future as a part of the regular lecturer-inviting protocol. Orna. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello, Since I've been seen presenting the speaker in some talks, and sometimes even made sure the projector is available (even though I don't have the key myself), and I sometimes announce lectures, I suppose some people will consider myself as an organizer. But the truth is, that Haifux has been running for quote a few years without appointing anyone to organize the event. Exactly as in the free software world, the slots have been filled by whoever was there to fill them. I'm sorry to hear about today's mishap. It's a truly rare event, and it looks like the shortcircuit lies somewhere between myself and Orna. Personally, I had other things on my mind, and I actually wasn't aware that anything was planned for today. One lesson to learn is that a lecture announced on the same day is a bad omen. A second bad omen is when you're going to give a lecture, and you have no phone number whatsoever to call in case something goes wrong (stuck on the road, for example). It's actually true for any kind of appointment one makes. Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. It works almost always, but this time, it just didn't. And allow me to say, as someone who has delivered professional courses, that the same rule applies in the real world. Having said all this, I'd still like to apologize for the inconvenience. The few of us involved will make sure this will not happen again. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org Thanks for the apologies, Eli and Orna. Ram. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
Dear All, For future reference: In case the desk with the projector equipment is locked, please go to the second floor, to room 203 (Alex Ratinzki's room), and ask Moti (who sits there) to open the projector at room 6. As for the organizers, we have other commitments, and we cannot arrive to all meetings, but usually there is at least one person in the audience who has the key (or knows Moti). As for your talk, we will exchange phone numbers offlist. Best regards, Orr. On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:14 PM, cool-RR cool...@cool-rr.com wrote: Hey everyone, and especially the administrators, I was just at Roy's talk at Haifux. None of the group's organizers came-- We had no one to unlock the projector for us. Since we couldn't use the projector, we all had to sit huddled in front of Roy's laptop while he gave the talk. Fortunately the lecture was interesting and I enjoyed it, despite of the conditions. But this is pretty unprofessional. I've scheduled to give a talk in Haifux in July, and I intend to put considerable effort into preparing this talk, and it will be a bummer if I came all prepared and there wouldn't be a person to open the projector. So what's up with that? Why did none of the organizers come to open the projector? Ram Rachum. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: C2D5 C6D6 9A24 9A95 C5B3 2023 6CAB 4A7C B73F D0AA (This key will never sign Emails, only other PGP keys. The key corresponds to o...@vipe.technion.ac.il) ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
Thanks for the info Orr. On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Orr Dunkelman orr.dunkel...@gmail.comwrote: Dear All, For future reference: In case the desk with the projector equipment is locked, please go to the second floor, to room 203 (Alex Ratinzki's room), and ask Moti (who sits there) to open the projector at room 6. As for the organizers, we have other commitments, and we cannot arrive to all meetings, but usually there is at least one person in the audience who has the key (or knows Moti). As for your talk, we will exchange phone numbers offlist. Best regards, Orr. On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:14 PM, cool-RR cool...@cool-rr.com wrote: Hey everyone, and especially the administrators, I was just at Roy's talk at Haifux. None of the group's organizers came-- We had no one to unlock the projector for us. Since we couldn't use the projector, we all had to sit huddled in front of Roy's laptop while he gave the talk. Fortunately the lecture was interesting and I enjoyed it, despite of the conditions. But this is pretty unprofessional. I've scheduled to give a talk in Haifux in July, and I intend to put considerable effort into preparing this talk, and it will be a bummer if I came all prepared and there wouldn't be a person to open the projector. So what's up with that? Why did none of the organizers come to open the projector? Ram Rachum. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux -- Orr Dunkelman, orr.dunkel...@gmail.com GPG fingerprint: C2D5 C6D6 9A24 9A95 C5B3 2023 6CAB 4A7C B73F D0AA (This key will never sign Emails, only other PGP keys. The key corresponds to o...@vipe.technion.ac.il) -- Sincerely, Ram Rachum ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
hi orr, it will be a good idea to add this info to lecture announcements - in case this happens again in the future - as well of adding it to haifux.org (not just on haifux - people won't necessarily remember that it is written there when this problem happens again in a year from now). thanks, --guy Orr Dunkelman wrote: Dear All, For future reference: In case the desk with the projector equipment is locked, please go to the second floor, to room 203 (Alex Ratinzki's room), and ask Moti (who sits there) to open the projector at room 6. As for the organizers, we have other commitments, and we cannot arrive to all meetings, but usually there is at least one person in the audience who has the key (or knows Moti). As for your talk, we will exchange phone numbers offlist. Best regards, Orr. On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 9:14 PM, cool-RR cool...@cool-rr.com wrote: Hey everyone, and especially the administrators, I was just at Roy's talk at Haifux. None of the group's organizers came-- We had no one to unlock the projector for us. Since we couldn't use the projector, we all had to sit huddled in front of Roy's laptop while he gave the talk. Fortunately the lecture was interesting and I enjoyed it, despite of the conditions. But this is pretty unprofessional. I've scheduled to give a talk in Haifux in July, and I intend to put considerable effort into preparing this talk, and it will be a bummer if I came all prepared and there wouldn't be a person to open the projector. So what's up with that? Why did none of the organizers come to open the projector? Ram Rachum. ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
Hello all, Indeed, I intended to arrive, and I have even had a key during the last two semesters (but not before that - we managed without for years, as explained before). However, I was unable to come on the last minute. I am sorry there was nobody there who knew Moti should be contacted. This indeed will be fixed in the future as a part of the regular lecturer-inviting protocol. Orna. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello, Since I've been seen presenting the speaker in some talks, and sometimes even made sure the projector is available (even though I don't have the key myself), and I sometimes announce lectures, I suppose some people will consider myself as an organizer. But the truth is, that Haifux has been running for quote a few years without appointing anyone to organize the event. Exactly as in the free software world, the slots have been filled by whoever was there to fill them. I'm sorry to hear about today's mishap. It's a truly rare event, and it looks like the shortcircuit lies somewhere between myself and Orna. Personally, I had other things on my mind, and I actually wasn't aware that anything was planned for today. One lesson to learn is that a lecture announced on the same day is a bad omen. A second bad omen is when you're going to give a lecture, and you have no phone number whatsoever to call in case something goes wrong (stuck on the road, for example). It's actually true for any kind of appointment one makes. Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. It works almost always, but this time, it just didn't. And allow me to say, as someone who has delivered professional courses, that the same rule applies in the real world. Having said all this, I'd still like to apologize for the inconvenience. The few of us involved will make sure this will not happen again. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
Re: [Haifux] Where were the organizers?
I think a good idea is to set up a chain of command as people do in the armies. It is also a good thing from organizational perspective. This chain of command should work with the faculty people (Moti or Alex or whoever), and not every willing lecturer. If the obliged representative is not able to arrive they *has to* ping the next in the chain, to at least make sure the door is open and for *the right* people (there are also some faculty security aspects - equipment had been stolen in the past) of course: IMHO. Regards. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:36 AM, Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda ladyp...@gmail.comwrote: Hello all, Indeed, I intended to arrive, and I have even had a key during the last two semesters (but not before that - we managed without for years, as explained before). However, I was unable to come on the last minute. I am sorry there was nobody there who knew Moti should be contacted. This indeed will be fixed in the future as a part of the regular lecturer-inviting protocol. Orna. On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:45 AM, Eli Billauer e...@billauer.co.il wrote: Hello, Since I've been seen presenting the speaker in some talks, and sometimes even made sure the projector is available (even though I don't have the key myself), and I sometimes announce lectures, I suppose some people will consider myself as an organizer. But the truth is, that Haifux has been running for quote a few years without appointing anyone to organize the event. Exactly as in the free software world, the slots have been filled by whoever was there to fill them. I'm sorry to hear about today's mishap. It's a truly rare event, and it looks like the shortcircuit lies somewhere between myself and Orna. Personally, I had other things on my mind, and I actually wasn't aware that anything was planned for today. One lesson to learn is that a lecture announced on the same day is a bad omen. A second bad omen is when you're going to give a lecture, and you have no phone number whatsoever to call in case something goes wrong (stuck on the road, for example). It's actually true for any kind of appointment one makes. Please keep in mind that the only dedicated staff in any lecture, is the speaker himself (or herself). Arriving at a lecture expecting that everything has been fixed by just somebody is a bit of a gambling. It works almost always, but this time, it just didn't. And allow me to say, as someone who has delivered professional courses, that the same rule applies in the real world. Having said all this, I'd still like to apologize for the inconvenience. The few of us involved will make sure this will not happen again. Eli -- Web: http://www.billauer.co.il -- Orna Agmon Ben-Yehuda. http://ladypine.org ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux -- Maxim Kovgan ___ Haifux mailing list Haifux@haifux.org http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haifux
