Re: Can I help with the 2.1 release?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:10:35PM +0300, Valter Jansons wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:37 PM Julien Pivotto > wrote: > > I'm with Lukas on this. 2.1 is a strong release, and we should be > > grateful for everyone which is using that release, as their feedback is > > valuable for the building the next releases of HAProxy. > > My apologies if the message sounded ungrateful, for rolling out new > changes and testing. As the latest 2.2.0 release did show just > recently, there is great benefit in people running upcoming (new) > changes. No offense, don't worry :-) We're used to say that odd versions being maintained for less time, we're allowed to take more risks with them and we know that most of their users are those autonomous enough to roll back or switch to another one in case of trouble. As such, the stability of an odd version can be a bit more chaotic than the one of an even one, and that's by choice to preserve more users. Also I'm less reluctant to backport small features to odd versions than for even ones (it's a give and take, brave users test & report issues and in exchange they can get a version that better suits their needs). In other areas of the industry, the terms "early availability" and "general deployment" exist to designate these different stability statuses, and I think that they model what we do quite well. Of course when a new version is issued, it needs a little bit of time to dry up, and a few surprises are expected. But the point is that there should be (by design) less risks to upgrade from 2.1.x to 2.2.x than from 2.0.x to 2.1.x two months after the new major release is emitted. Here we're facing something unusual in that 2.1 appeared to be exceptionally stable and 2.2 started with some rough edges, so at this point of the cycle the difference in stability expectations might still be less visible of course. Anyway, the point of maintaining long term supported versions is that anyone is free to use the one that best suits their needs. Anything between the oldest that supports all needed features, to the latest stable enough for the use case is fine. As a rule of thumb, I'd say that it's probably OK to always be late by one or two stable versions on average. This should help one figure what branch to deploy: if the latest stable emits one version every two weeks, it means you need to upgrade your production every two to four weeks. If an older stable one produces one version every 6 months, it may allow you not to care about your prod for 6 months to one year. But in any case there is always the risk of a critical bug requiring an urgent deployment, so you should see this as a rule of thumb only and not a strict rule. Hoping this clarifies the process a bit. Willy
Re: Can I help with the 2.1 release?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:37 PM Julien Pivotto wrote: > I'm with Lukas on this. 2.1 is a strong release, and we should be > grateful for everyone which is using that release, as their feedback is > valuable for the building the next releases of HAProxy. My apologies if the message sounded ungrateful, for rolling out new changes and testing. As the latest 2.2.0 release did show just recently, there is great benefit in people running upcoming (new) changes. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:29 PM Lukas Tribus wrote: > 2.1 is not a technical preview, it's a proper release train with full > support. Support for it will cease in 2021-Q1, but I don't think you > can conclude that that means it's getting less love now. My "technical preview" wording and the release ramp-down expectation was somewhat based on past release lines, such as the 2.1.0 ANNOUNCE saying "2.1 is a stable branch that will be maintained till around Q1 2021, and is mostly aimed at experienced users, just like 1.9 was" and the 2.0.0 ANNOUNCE saying "As most of you know, 1.9 will not be maintained for a long time and should mostly be seen as a technological preview or technical foundation for 2.0." I do recognize the 2021Q1 commitment of maintenance. If the release velocity is indeed to be expected from the team for the 2.1 line then apologies for my doubt on the priorities/time allocation. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:37 PM Julien Pivotto wrote: > I am not yet confident to run 2.2 in prod yet, but I will roll out 2.2 > in non-prod env soon. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:29 PM Lukas Tribus wrote: > I would be reluctant to suggest upgrading mission-critical setups to > 2.2, it's not even a month old at this point. Unless you expect to run > into bugs and have time and resources to troubleshoot it. Everyone should, of course, evaluate their upgrade strategies themselves. I did not intend that to be a general advisory to "upgrade all the things". Instead I was attempting to pose a legitimate question out of interest as to whether there are any blockers for a 2.2 LTS migration from 2.1, considering they had already upgraded from the 2.0 LTS.
Re: Can I help with the 2.1 release?
On 30 Jul 21:29, Lukas Tribus wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:49, Valter Jansons wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 6:44 PM Harris Kaufmann > > wrote: > > > my company really needs the next 2.1 release but we want to avoid > > > deploying a custom, self compiled version. > > > > > > Is there something I can do to help with the release? I guess there > > > are no blocking issues left? > > > > For mission-critical setups you should be running the LTS release > > lines. The 2.1 release line was more of a technical preview line for > > the following 2.2 LTS release, to keep changes flowing, and you should > > not expect regular new release tags on the 2.1 line considering the > > 2.2 line has shipped. I am not involved in the release process but I > > would assume the team will push a new 2.1 tag some day however I do > > not see that being a high priority for them in any way. > > > > As a result, I would instead rephrase the question in the other > > direction: Are there any blockers for you to upgrade to 2.2? > > I'm not sure I agree. > > I would be reluctant to suggest upgrading mission-critical setups to > 2.2, it's not even a month old at this point. Unless you expect to run > into bugs and have time and resources to troubleshoot it. > > 2.1 is not a technical preview, it's a proper release train with full > support. Support for it will cease in 2021-Q1, but I don't think you > can conclude that that means it's getting less love now. > > > Lukas > I'm with Lukas on this. 2.1 is a strong release, and we should be grateful for everyone which is using that release, as their feedback is valuable for the building the next releases of HAProxy. I am not yet confident to run 2.2 in prod yet, but I will roll out 2.2 in non-prod env soon. -- (o-Julien Pivotto //\Open-Source Consultant V_/_ Inuits - https://www.inuits.eu signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Can I help with the 2.1 release?
Hello, On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:49, Valter Jansons wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 6:44 PM Harris Kaufmann > wrote: > > my company really needs the next 2.1 release but we want to avoid > > deploying a custom, self compiled version. > > > > Is there something I can do to help with the release? I guess there > > are no blocking issues left? > > For mission-critical setups you should be running the LTS release > lines. The 2.1 release line was more of a technical preview line for > the following 2.2 LTS release, to keep changes flowing, and you should > not expect regular new release tags on the 2.1 line considering the > 2.2 line has shipped. I am not involved in the release process but I > would assume the team will push a new 2.1 tag some day however I do > not see that being a high priority for them in any way. > > As a result, I would instead rephrase the question in the other > direction: Are there any blockers for you to upgrade to 2.2? I'm not sure I agree. I would be reluctant to suggest upgrading mission-critical setups to 2.2, it's not even a month old at this point. Unless you expect to run into bugs and have time and resources to troubleshoot it. 2.1 is not a technical preview, it's a proper release train with full support. Support for it will cease in 2021-Q1, but I don't think you can conclude that that means it's getting less love now. Lukas
Re: Can I help with the 2.1 release?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 6:44 PM Harris Kaufmann wrote: > my company really needs the next 2.1 release but we want to avoid > deploying a custom, self compiled version. > > Is there something I can do to help with the release? I guess there > are no blocking issues left? For mission-critical setups you should be running the LTS release lines. The 2.1 release line was more of a technical preview line for the following 2.2 LTS release, to keep changes flowing, and you should not expect regular new release tags on the 2.1 line considering the 2.2 line has shipped. I am not involved in the release process but I would assume the team will push a new 2.1 tag some day however I do not see that being a high priority for them in any way. As a result, I would instead rephrase the question in the other direction: Are there any blockers for you to upgrade to 2.2?
Can I help with the 2.1 release?
Hi, my company really needs the next 2.1 release but we want to avoid deploying a custom, self compiled version. Is there something I can do to help with the release? I guess there are no blocking issues left? Best regards, Harris
