Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Илья Шипицин]

вт, 31 мая 2022 г. в 13:09, William Lallemand :

> Hello Ryan,
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 01:28:58PM -0500, Ryan O'Hara wrote:
> >
> > I am the maintainer for all the Red Hat and Fedora packages. Feel free to
> > ask questions here on the mailing list or email me directly.
> >
> > I try to keep Fedora up to date with latest upstream, but once a release
> > goes into a specific Fedora release (eg. haproxy-2.4 in Fedora 35) I
> don't
> > update to haproxy-2.5 in that same release. I have in the past and I get
> > angry emails about rebasing to a newer release. I've spoken to Willy
> about
> > this in the past and we seem to be in agreement on this.
> >
> > RHEL is different. We almost never rebase to a later major release for
> the
> > lifetime of RHEL. The one exception was when we added haproxy-1.8 to
> RHSCL
> > (software collections) in RHEL7 since the base RHEL7 had haproxy-1.5 and
> > there were significant features added to the 1.8 release.
> >
> > I get this complaint often for haproxy in RHEL. Keep in mind that RHEL is
> > focused on consistency and stability over a long period of time. I can't
> > stress this enough - it is extremely rare to rebase to a new, major
> release
> > of haproxy (or anything else) in a major RHEL release. For example, RHEL9
> > has haproxy-2.4 and will likely always have that version.
>
> I understand your point, indeed RHEL is focused on stability and it
> seems normal that the packages maintained inside RHEL does not jump from
> one major version to another.



if nobody minds, I'd suggest IUS approach.

haproxy20 = haproxy-2.0
haproxy22 = haproxy-2.2

and so on.

end user can install either version.


>
>
> > I do often rebase to newer minor release to pick up bug fixes (eg.
> > haproxy-2.4.8 will be updated to haproxy-2.4.17, but very unlikely to
> > be anything beyond the latest 2.4 release). I understand this is not
> > for everybody.
> >
>
> That's the right way to do it in my opinion, a stable distribution
> just needs to follow the minor releases which basically contains the
> bugfixes.
>
> But what we are trying to offer is a way for users to chose another
> branch so they could benefits from new features. Since RHEL has a long
> life cycle and HAProxy has 2 majors releases per year, RHEL can't
> provide them and that's normal.
>
> Some users actually need up to date versions because the needs evolve,
> the tools, and the protocols too. For example someone who want to use
> the latest dynamic features with their kubernetes, or who wants to test
> http/3.
>
> Debian had the same problem as RHEL, but it was solved with
> haproxy.debian.net which provides multiple HAProxy branches for multiple
> debian versions. It would be great if we can achieve something like this
> with COPR or anything else.
>
> > As mentioned elsewhere, COPR is likely the best place for this. It had
> been
> > awhile since I've used it, but there have been times I did special,
> > unsupported builds in COPR for others to use.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Ryan
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> William Lallemand
>
>

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[William Lallemand]

Hello Ryan,

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 01:28:58PM -0500, Ryan O'Hara wrote:
> 
> I am the maintainer for all the Red Hat and Fedora packages. Feel free to
> ask questions here on the mailing list or email me directly.
> 
> I try to keep Fedora up to date with latest upstream, but once a release
> goes into a specific Fedora release (eg. haproxy-2.4 in Fedora 35) I don't
> update to haproxy-2.5 in that same release. I have in the past and I get
> angry emails about rebasing to a newer release. I've spoken to Willy about
> this in the past and we seem to be in agreement on this.
> 
> RHEL is different. We almost never rebase to a later major release for the
> lifetime of RHEL. The one exception was when we added haproxy-1.8 to RHSCL
> (software collections) in RHEL7 since the base RHEL7 had haproxy-1.5 and
> there were significant features added to the 1.8 release.
> 
> I get this complaint often for haproxy in RHEL. Keep in mind that RHEL is
> focused on consistency and stability over a long period of time. I can't
> stress this enough - it is extremely rare to rebase to a new, major release
> of haproxy (or anything else) in a major RHEL release. For example, RHEL9
> has haproxy-2.4 and will likely always have that version.

I understand your point, indeed RHEL is focused on stability and it
seems normal that the packages maintained inside RHEL does not jump from
one major version to another. 

> I do often rebase to newer minor release to pick up bug fixes (eg.
> haproxy-2.4.8 will be updated to haproxy-2.4.17, but very unlikely to
> be anything beyond the latest 2.4 release). I understand this is not
> for everybody.
> 

That's the right way to do it in my opinion, a stable distribution
just needs to follow the minor releases which basically contains the
bugfixes.

But what we are trying to offer is a way for users to chose another
branch so they could benefits from new features. Since RHEL has a long
life cycle and HAProxy has 2 majors releases per year, RHEL can't
provide them and that's normal.

Some users actually need up to date versions because the needs evolve,
the tools, and the protocols too. For example someone who want to use
the latest dynamic features with their kubernetes, or who wants to test
http/3.

Debian had the same problem as RHEL, but it was solved with
haproxy.debian.net which provides multiple HAProxy branches for multiple
debian versions. It would be great if we can achieve something like this
with COPR or anything else.

> As mentioned elsewhere, COPR is likely the best place for this. It had been
> awhile since I've used it, but there have been times I did special,
> unsupported builds in COPR for others to use.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Ryan

Thanks!

-- 
William Lallemand

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Aleksandar Lazic]

Hi Ryan.

On Thu, 26 May 2022 13:28:58 -0500
"Ryan O'Hara"  wrote:

> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:15 AM William Lallemand 
> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 08:56:14PM +, Alford, Mark wrote:
> > > Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full
> > install on RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> > >
> > > I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and
> > it failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed
> > >
> > > Please help
> > >
> > >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm using this thread to launch a call for help about the redhat
> > packaging.
> >
> 
> I am the maintainer for all the Red Hat and Fedora packages. Feel free to
> ask questions here on the mailing list or email me directly.
> 
> 
> 
> > We try to document the list of available packages here:
> > https://github.com/haproxy/wiki/wiki/Packages
> >
> > The IUS repository is know to work but only provides packages as far as
> > 2.2. no 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 are there but I'm seeing an open ticket for
> > the 2.4 here: https://github.com/iusrepo/wishlist/issues/303
> >
> > Unfortunately nobody ever step up to maintain constantly the upstream
> > releases for redhat/centos like its done for ubuntu/debian on
> > haproxy.debian.net.
> >
> 
> I try to keep Fedora up to date with latest upstream, but once a release
> goes into a specific Fedora release (eg. haproxy-2.4 in Fedora 35) I don't
> update to haproxy-2.5 in that same release. I have in the past and I get
> angry emails about rebasing to a newer release. I've spoken to Willy about
> this in the past and we seem to be in agreement on this.
> 
> RHEL is different. We almost never rebase to a later major release for the
> lifetime of RHEL. The one exception was when we added haproxy-1.8 to RHSCL
> (software collections) in RHEL7 since the base RHEL7 had haproxy-1.5 and
> there were significant features added to the 1.8 release.
> 
> I get this complaint often for haproxy in RHEL. Keep in mind that RHEL is
> focused on consistency and stability over a long period of time. I can't
> stress this enough - it is extremely rare to rebase to a new, major release
> of haproxy (or anything else) in a major RHEL release. For example, RHEL9
> has haproxy-2.4 and will likely always have that version. I do often rebase
> to newer minor release to pick up bug fixes (eg. haproxy-2.4.8 will be
> updated to haproxy-2.4.17, but very unlikely to be anything beyond the
> latest 2.4 release). I understand this is not for everybody.

Well written and I'm fully aware of the pro and cons of that strategy.

Let me make a suggestion.
Offer the latest HAPoxy as RPM in like epel or some extra repo and keep the
supported one in the main repo.

As far as I can see is there already a epel entry for HAProxy
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&component=haproxy
as described here.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/epel/epel-package-request/

The issue for some users is that there is no RPM available until the rpm is
build on there own with https://github.com/DBezemer/rpm-haproxy.
Thanks David for keep this repo up2date.

Looks like this is the source of the HAProxy builds for CentOS and RHEL, isn't
it?
https://git.centos.org/rpms/haproxy/branches?branchname=c8s

How about to add there a branch "upstream" or something else which uses the
latest LTS version as even HAProxy community onls supports the LTS version for
a long time. 

Another Idea is to add another repo under
https://github.com/orgs/haproxy/repositories like "linux-distro-build-sources"
and add there the RPM, deb and some other build files for some other linux
distributions. Now if an user want to offer an rpm or deb can the build config
be used from there, similar to the great work from Vincent for the Debian
Distribution.

As I know that some enterprise companies does not allow epel or other none
"official" RHEL Repos in there setup is this an option to offer them the latest
HAProxy for there system.

The solution for the problem "latest HAProxy on RPM based System" is the to use
the upstream rpm or build there own rpm based on the offical repo
"linux-distro-build-sources" from https://github.com/orgs/haproxy/repositories

Well yes, the name is up for discussion :-)

jm2c

> > Maybe it could be done with IUS, its as simple as a pull request on
> > their github for each new release, but someone need to be involve.
> >
> > I'm not a redhat user, but from time to time someone is asking for a
> > redhat package and nothing is really available and maintained outside of
> > the official redhat one.
> >
> 
> As mentioned elsewhere, COPR is likely the best place for this. It had been
> awhile since I've used it, but there have been times I did special,
> unsupported builds in COPR for others to use.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Ryan

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Илья Шипицин]

good news :)


I found some time to dig in into IUS.
I'm playing with builds (something works, something not yet, but I'm
progressing).

hopefully, we will end with owning IUS repos and/or making PRs.

чт, 26 мая 2022 г. в 16:08, William Lallemand :

> Ilya,
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 03:13:54PM +0500, Илья Шипицин wrote:
> > I'll try to focus on redhat packaging (I'm somewhat familiar with Fedora
> > COPR, and I can try OBS).
> >
>
> I don't think OBS is relevant for this case, the documentation is poor
> and it's complicated to contribute to a package.
>
> I don't know about COPR, but most of the work seems to have been done in
> IUS, and it's easy to contribute just by doing a pull request on their
> repository. I'm not sure there is any advantage to creating another
> repository, but I might be wrong.
>
>
> > if I will not come back in next couple of weeks, that means I did not
> find
> > a time.
> >
>
> Well be careful then, because I'm talking about long-term maintenance,
> not just another package not being updated after a few months like all
> haproxy RPM that we can find out there. It really takes time and
> dedication.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> William Lallemand
>

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Christian Ruppert]

On 2022-05-26 20:28, Ryan O'Hara wrote:

On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:15 AM William Lallemand
 wrote:


On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 08:56:14PM +, Alford, Mark wrote:

Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full

install on RHEL 7 and RHEL 8


I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make

command and it failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed


Please help



Hello,

I'm using this thread to launch a call for help about the redhat
packaging.


I am the maintainer for all the Red Hat and Fedora packages. Feel free
to ask questions here on the mailing list or email me directly.


We try to document the list of available packages here:
https://github.com/haproxy/wiki/wiki/Packages

The IUS repository is know to work but only provides packages as far
as
2.2. no 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 are there but I'm seeing an open ticket for
the 2.4 here: https://github.com/iusrepo/wishlist/issues/303

Unfortunately nobody ever step up to maintain constantly the
upstream
releases for redhat/centos like its done for ubuntu/debian on
haproxy.debian.net [1].


I try to keep Fedora up to date with latest upstream, but once a
release goes into a specific Fedora release (eg. haproxy-2.4 in Fedora
35) I don't update to haproxy-2.5 in that same release. I have in the
past and I get angry emails about rebasing to a newer release. I've
spoken to Willy about this in the past and we seem to be in agreement
on this.

RHEL is different. We almost never rebase to a later major release for
the lifetime of RHEL. The one exception was when we added haproxy-1.8
to RHSCL (software collections) in RHEL7 since the base RHEL7 had
haproxy-1.5 and there were significant features added to the 1.8
release.

I get this complaint often for haproxy in RHEL. Keep in mind that RHEL
is focused on consistency and stability over a long period of time. I
can't stress this enough - it is extremely rare to rebase to a new,
major release of haproxy (or anything else) in a major RHEL release.
For example, RHEL9 has haproxy-2.4 and will likely always have that
version. I do often rebase to newer minor release to pick up bug fixes
(eg. haproxy-2.4.8 will be updated to haproxy-2.4.17, but very
unlikely to be anything beyond the latest 2.4 release). I understand
this is not for everybody.



IMHO, if you pick a LTS or even a non-LTS (depending on how long the 
distro version ist being supported) but keep that

close to upstream releases by doing minor bumps, that's totally fine.
That way, like you said, users get bug fixes and not just hand picked 
patches. That's far better I'd say.



Maybe it could be done with IUS, its as simple as a pull request on
their github for each new release, but someone need to be involve.

I'm not a redhat user, but from time to time someone is asking for a
redhat package and nothing is really available and maintained
outside of
the official redhat one.


As mentioned elsewhere, COPR is likely the best place for this. It had
been awhile since I've used it, but there have been times I did
special, unsupported builds in COPR for others to use.

Hope this helps.

Ryan



Links:
--
[1] http://haproxy.debian.net


--
Regards,
Christian Ruppert

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Ryan O'Hara]

On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 11:15 AM William Lallemand 
wrote:

> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 08:56:14PM +, Alford, Mark wrote:
> > Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full
> install on RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> >
> > I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and
> it failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed
> >
> > Please help
> >
> >
> Hello,
>
> I'm using this thread to launch a call for help about the redhat
> packaging.
>

I am the maintainer for all the Red Hat and Fedora packages. Feel free to
ask questions here on the mailing list or email me directly.



> We try to document the list of available packages here:
> https://github.com/haproxy/wiki/wiki/Packages
>
> The IUS repository is know to work but only provides packages as far as
> 2.2. no 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 are there but I'm seeing an open ticket for
> the 2.4 here: https://github.com/iusrepo/wishlist/issues/303
>
> Unfortunately nobody ever step up to maintain constantly the upstream
> releases for redhat/centos like its done for ubuntu/debian on
> haproxy.debian.net.
>

I try to keep Fedora up to date with latest upstream, but once a release
goes into a specific Fedora release (eg. haproxy-2.4 in Fedora 35) I don't
update to haproxy-2.5 in that same release. I have in the past and I get
angry emails about rebasing to a newer release. I've spoken to Willy about
this in the past and we seem to be in agreement on this.

RHEL is different. We almost never rebase to a later major release for the
lifetime of RHEL. The one exception was when we added haproxy-1.8 to RHSCL
(software collections) in RHEL7 since the base RHEL7 had haproxy-1.5 and
there were significant features added to the 1.8 release.

I get this complaint often for haproxy in RHEL. Keep in mind that RHEL is
focused on consistency and stability over a long period of time. I can't
stress this enough - it is extremely rare to rebase to a new, major release
of haproxy (or anything else) in a major RHEL release. For example, RHEL9
has haproxy-2.4 and will likely always have that version. I do often rebase
to newer minor release to pick up bug fixes (eg. haproxy-2.4.8 will be
updated to haproxy-2.4.17, but very unlikely to be anything beyond the
latest 2.4 release). I understand this is not for everybody.

Maybe it could be done with IUS, its as simple as a pull request on
> their github for each new release, but someone need to be involve.
>
> I'm not a redhat user, but from time to time someone is asking for a
> redhat package and nothing is really available and maintained outside of
> the official redhat one.
>

As mentioned elsewhere, COPR is likely the best place for this. It had been
awhile since I've used it, but there have been times I did special,
unsupported builds in COPR for others to use.

Hope this helps.

Ryan

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Илья Шипицин]

чт, 26 мая 2022 г. в 16:08, William Lallemand :

> Ilya,
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 03:13:54PM +0500, Илья Шипицин wrote:
> > I'll try to focus on redhat packaging (I'm somewhat familiar with Fedora
> > COPR, and I can try OBS).
> >
>
> I don't think OBS is relevant for this case, the documentation is poor
> and it's complicated to contribute to a package.
>
> I don't know about COPR, but most of the work seems to have been done in
> IUS, and it's easy to contribute just by doing a pull request on their
> repository. I'm not sure there is any advantage to creating another
> repository, but I might be wrong.
>

indeed, IUS looks good. I'll have a look (COPR is somewhat complicated for
rolling releases, but very flexible)



>
>
> > if I will not come back in next couple of weeks, that means I did not
> find
> > a time.
> >
>
> Well be careful then, because I'm talking about long-term maintenance,
> not just another package not being updated after a few months like all
> haproxy RPM that we can find out there. It really takes time and
> dedication.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> William Lallemand
>

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Илья Шипицин]

чт, 26 мая 2022 г. в 16:08, William Lallemand :

> Ilya,
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 03:13:54PM +0500, Илья Шипицин wrote:
> > I'll try to focus on redhat packaging (I'm somewhat familiar with Fedora
> > COPR, and I can try OBS).
> >
>
> I don't think OBS is relevant for this case, the documentation is poor
> and it's complicated to contribute to a package.
>
> I don't know about COPR, but most of the work seems to have been done in
> IUS, and it's easy to contribute just by doing a pull request on their
> repository. I'm not sure there is any advantage to creating another
> repository, but I might be wrong.
>
>
> > if I will not come back in next couple of weeks, that means I did not
> find
> > a time.
> >
>
> Well be careful then, because I'm talking about long-term maintenance,
> not just another package not being updated after a few months like all
> haproxy RPM that we can find out there. It really takes time and
> dedication.
>

yes, I mostly involved to RPM based activities, and I consider long term
support.
however, I may estimate my spare time in next couple of weeks in wrong way
:(



>
> Regards,
>
> --
> William Lallemand
>

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[William Lallemand]

Ilya,

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 03:13:54PM +0500, Илья Шипицин wrote:
> I'll try to focus on redhat packaging (I'm somewhat familiar with Fedora
> COPR, and I can try OBS).
>

I don't think OBS is relevant for this case, the documentation is poor
and it's complicated to contribute to a package.

I don't know about COPR, but most of the work seems to have been done in
IUS, and it's easy to contribute just by doing a pull request on their
repository. I'm not sure there is any advantage to creating another
repository, but I might be wrong.


> if I will not come back in next couple of weeks, that means I did not find
> a time.
> 

Well be careful then, because I'm talking about long-term maintenance,
not just another package not being updated after a few months like all
haproxy RPM that we can find out there. It really takes time and
dedication.

Regards,

-- 
William Lallemand

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Илья Шипицин]

I'll try to focus on redhat packaging (I'm somewhat familiar with Fedora
COPR, and I can try OBS).

if I will not come back in next couple of weeks, that means I did not find
a time.

ср, 25 мая 2022 г. в 20:52, William Lallemand :

> On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 08:56:14PM +, Alford, Mark wrote:
> > Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full
> install on RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> >
> > I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and
> it failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed
> >
> > Please help
> >
> >
> Hello,
>
> I'm using this thread to launch a call for help about the redhat
> packaging.
>
> We try to document the list of available packages here:
> https://github.com/haproxy/wiki/wiki/Packages
>
> The IUS repository is know to work but only provides packages as far as
> 2.2. no 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 are there but I'm seeing an open ticket for
> the 2.4 here: https://github.com/iusrepo/wishlist/issues/303
>
> Unfortunately nobody ever step up to maintain constantly the upstream
> releases for redhat/centos like its done for ubuntu/debian on
> haproxy.debian.net.
>
> Maybe it could be done with IUS, its as simple as a pull request on
> their github for each new release, but someone need to be involve.
>
> I'm not a redhat user, but from time to time someone is asking for a
> redhat package and nothing is really available and maintained outside of
> the official redhat one.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> William Lallemand
>
>

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[William Lallemand]

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 08:56:14PM +, Alford, Mark wrote:
> Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full install on 
> RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> 
> I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and it 
> failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed
> 
> Please help
> 
> 
Hello,

I'm using this thread to launch a call for help about the redhat
packaging.

We try to document the list of available packages here:
https://github.com/haproxy/wiki/wiki/Packages

The IUS repository is know to work but only provides packages as far as
2.2. no 2.3, 2.4 or 2.5 are there but I'm seeing an open ticket for
the 2.4 here: https://github.com/iusrepo/wishlist/issues/303

Unfortunately nobody ever step up to maintain constantly the upstream
releases for redhat/centos like its done for ubuntu/debian on
haproxy.debian.net.

Maybe it could be done with IUS, its as simple as a pull request on
their github for each new release, but someone need to be involve.

I'm not a redhat user, but from time to time someone is asking for a
redhat package and nothing is really available and maintained outside of
the official redhat one.

Regards,

-- 
William Lallemand

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming]

Hi there,

On Wed, 25 May 2022 at 06:26, Aleksandar Lazic  wrote:
>
> Hi.
>
> On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:56:14 +
> "Alford, Mark"  wrote:
>
> > Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full install 
> > on
> > RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> >
> > I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and it
> > failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed
>
> Please post the full steps you have done with the error.
> Wild guess, the dev rpm's are not installed.

I also think the development RPM is not installed. Like lua-devel-.rpm.

>
> Maybe this repo with the specs helps you to find the error.
> https://github.com/DBezemer/rpm-haproxy
>
>
> > Please help
> >
> > Mark Alford
> > Security+
> > IT Specialist (System Administrator)
> > Office of Research and Development,
> > Center for Computational Toxicology and
> > Exposure
> > Scientific Computing and Data Curation Division Application Development 
> > Branch
> >
> > e: alford.m...@epa.gov
> > t: (919) 541-4177
> > m: (413) 358-0407
> >
> >
> > If I am not the Federal Contracting Officer or Contracting Officer
> > Representative (CO/COR) on your contract please do not consider this
> > technical direction (TD). Any TD will be formally identified and/or
> > documented from your CO or COR.
> >
>
>

Regards,

Mr. Turritopsis Dohrnii Teo En Ming
Targeted Individual in Singapore
25 May 2022 Wed

Re: how to install on RHEL7 and 8

[Aleksandar Lazic]

Hi.

On Tue, 24 May 2022 20:56:14 +
"Alford, Mark"  wrote:

> Do you have instruction on the exact library needed to fo the full install on
> RHEL 7 and RHEL 8
> 
> I read the INSTALL doc in the tar ball and the did the make command and it
> failed because of LUA but lua.2.5.3 is installed

Please post the full steps you have done with the error.
Wild guess, the dev rpm's are not installed.

Maybe this repo with the specs helps you to find the error.
https://github.com/DBezemer/rpm-haproxy


> Please help
> 
> Mark Alford
> Security+
> IT Specialist (System Administrator)
> Office of Research and Development,
> Center for Computational Toxicology and
> Exposure
> Scientific Computing and Data Curation Division Application Development Branch
> 
> e: alford.m...@epa.gov
> t: (919) 541-4177
> m: (413) 358-0407
> 
> 
> If I am not the Federal Contracting Officer or Contracting Officer
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