te.org/node/890
Perhaps somebody can say more about constraint languages which replaced
Prolog in some contexts as well.
Have fun.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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instruction transforms the
man."(DK 68 B 33)
# "If any man listens to my opinions, here recorded, with intelligence, he
will achieve many things worthy of a good man, and avoid doing many unworthy
things.(DK 68 B 35)
==
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g typing.
Prolog strategies are straightforward, and I simply cannot understand the
comments of Andrew Coppin. Which arbitrary set of conclusions?? Which
patently obvious results not derivable?? Be kind, give some examples,
otherwise people may suspect that you are issui
tic inference of types, which sooner or later
must be harnessed by all Haskell programmers...
The best.
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d
collection of particularly succulent Vietnamese swearwords.
==
Perhaps you should decorate your program a bit as well?
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ursion. It cannot be extremely
efficient, but it seems quite elegant and powerful.
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er they submitted something ready for the audience.
Please check it out.
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http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
SzGesGor97b.pdf/geser97parallelizing.pdf
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cache/papers/cs/27853/http:zSzzSzwww-2.cs.cmu.ed
uzSz~rwhzSzcourseszSzmoduleszSzpaperszSzwadler87zSzpaper.pdf/wadler86views.p
df
and some others.
And, anyway, when I was young, my Master used to say:
"If you have nothing to say, then.&q
rse below him, and he sees, as clearly as never
before, that an apple is just an apple...
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am confusing things
because of my age...).
Anyway, concerning what Big Chris calls a "more general concept":
don't be confused, the parsing strategy of S&D is *NOT* monadic.
Thera are arrows which are monadic, and others which are not.
http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/doaitse/
re years old, or, you simply never tried to
use efficiently your very, very (physically) young brain.
A good deal of Prolog non-determinism can be efficiently and nicely
simulated in Haskell using the list Monad. Our 3-nd year CompSci students
are obliged to learn it. They survive it, so can
rogress *IS* considerable, but because of commercial
support the Windows world moves forward a bit faster!
Now, Haskell evolves in both worlds, but we have already seen that it was
easier to link it with the graphical support on Windows... Such is life.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
__
tion[{x}...]
formulae, you see that just assimilating the documentation needs something
like 4 days. Of course, this is not restricted to Mathematica. All Comp.
Algebra systems have such tools.
But, OK, I am old, tired and slow. There are, fortunately for us, some
people very fast and efficient.
tional application is the (inverted)
exponentiation! I belive that trying to produce something similar to the
proposal above would result in a True Disgrace.
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Andrew Coppin cites me and asks:
jk wrote:
... The World had many
symbolic math packages: Reduce, Macsyma, Schoonschip (beloved by high-
energy physicists), Maple, Scratchpad2/Axiom, later MuSIMP/MuMATH for
small platforms, etc.
I find that statement interesting. I have never come across *any
al Church)
can implement other things, for example some formal mathematics dealing
with logic, or with the category theory, or with the computational geometry
or with (my dream) the *true* implementation of quantum calculi.
Knock, knock! Wake up, the sermon is over.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
_
ically, so we do it explicitly...
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra
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are minor. Of
course it will be slower, but then, why not increase dt?
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ay, programming languages require first a good deal of positive
thought. The discussion on the relative merits of X or Y is OK, but when
I read that someone hates Perl, and somebody else hates Matlab, I am
a bit sick. Hatred never produced anything.
Jer
Haskell, and contribute to its development instead
of making another one, redundant project.
Eine Kirche, eine Sprache, eine Partei, ein Volk???
Horrible perspective.
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ICATED ANIMATIONS* are
done in this way. The IK is an established industrial domain, and in my
humble opinion, the laziness IS the tool to code it in a readable manner
(I work on this right now, but slowly...)
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
PS. BTW. The True Real World is quantum, not classical. A bottle of
the
...werbeH neve dna
a
n
d
C
h
i
n
e
s
e
==
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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pe of the language itself" --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconic
Examples: LISP, Rebol, Natural Languages...
Could you say why do you think Haskell SHOULD belong to this class?
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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line :
http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~karczma/arpap/lazysem.pdf
page 4...
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
===
(*) A reference for your culture:
Jorge Luis Borges, "Pierre Ménard, the Author of Don Quixote". It is a
story about a person who WROTE (not: copied) a book, exactly, letter by
lette
Alex Queiroz wrote:
On 9/25/06, Ch. A. Herrmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Henning Thielemann wrote:
> assembly language (Assembler ist deutsch :-)
for mysterious reasons it entered the English world.
'Assembly' is a language. 'Assembler' is a program.
All this is absolutely essent
rse not in a 'decent' language, but I know a few undecent.
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are about passing results
from one computation to the next one, they wouldn't be using monads in
the first place.
Shrug.
If these programmers didn't care about passing results from one computation
to the next one, they wouldn't use functional programming at all.
Hm.
Would it st
nd the set of finite lists
B. Between a limit and the maximum element of a set.
OK, I think that this subject matured enough to rest in peace...
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then YOU JUST PROVED THE EXISTENCE OF GOD.
=
More seriously...
Perhaps you (and possibly Piotr Kalinowski) would look up some materials
on intuitionism in mathematics, on the constructive theory of sets, etc.
Jerzy Karczma
ut, but I have
never followed the details.
Perhaps some YamPa-ladins who read this list could shed some light on the
reactive stream processing?
They use Arrows, a generalization (and twist, not compatible) of Monads, so
there is obviously *some* relation to continuations here... But I am a
Per
t;, predicate Eq [a] should be reduced to Eq a.
Does it mean that nobody is entitled to override the standard instance, and,
say, declare:
instance Eq [a] where
x==y = length x == length y
?
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e contrary, the
full semantics is in front of your eyes, it requires only some reasoning
in terms of infinite lists. See point (1).
Thanks.
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an usage of unique arrays was for me more natural than monadic stuff in
Haskell, but this is probably just a question of style. I agree that here
the laziness is secondary...
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s. comparing to Haskell, it seems
somewhat like "Visual Basic" comparing to plain Basic. again, i don't
tried it (and it's not free, afair), so look himself.
Yourself...
... You will find that Clean IS FREE under LGPL, although commercial
versions exist as well.
Don't spre
Joel Reymont writes:
Where's the solution and what is the repmin problem?
On Jun 19, 2006, at 5:21 PM, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
Such tricks become your second nature, when you take the solution
(lazy) of the "repmin" problem by Richard Bird, you put it under your
pillow, an
inl x (a:as) = (x:q,y) where (q,y) = inl a as
inl x [] = ([],x)
Such tricks become your second nature, when you take the solution
(lazy) of the "repmin" problem by Richard Bird, you put it under your
pillow, and sleep for one week with your head close to it.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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you know.
That's it. In Scheme the integration of IO with the rest of the program
is more natural, you just have expressions with some side-effects, and
you accept that side-effects are natural.
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ning local French snail-eaters ... well,
I lost all illusions quite a time ago.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
PS. About the subject (when to teach IO): don't be sectarians. If
a programming course insists on algorithmics, the IO issues can be
postponed a bit. If it insists on practical data processin
oxing is the possibility -
available in Smalltalk - to change the *identity* of an object. You
write (x become y), and all references to the object assigned to x, point
now to something completely different. A terrible weapon.
Jerzy Karczma
s, yet...), for my students. Do you have any simple
work-around?
Introduce some algebraic constructors? Perhaps higher-rank polymorphism could do
something (but then I would have to explain it to my folk...)
I would hate this...
Gracias.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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r:
http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~karczma/arpap/cleasyn.pdf
Of course I can send the Clean stuff to the <> as well, but I am aware
that this is a 5th-column attitude in a Haskell list... Still, you can try to
translate the models into Haskell, which should be conceptually trivial.
The best.
Jerz
emand *abstractly* that
evaluating
runtwo (proc1) (proc2)
mean: launch the two concurrently and process further the first outcome?
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their faces, and I wondered whether it would be a bad idea to call
some ambulances...)
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rs simply prefer a bit lowel-level
mechanisms, although monads *can* be used as well - if you wish.
Clean
http://www.cs.ru.nl/~clean/
Such Haskell-implemented monads as list/nondeterminism or Maybe, go without
any changements. State/IO use the unique types.
Je
whoals (sent by Nabble.com):
Define a function parts which returns the list of distinct partitions of an
integer n.
Send this query perhaps to haskell-homeworks list?
JK
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alltalkers, people using Forth, PostScript, etc.
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computed gotos already.
Actually, all irony apart, seriously, I have a theorem for you.
It says:
At least 2 times per month somebody
tries to reinvent continuations.
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ing" which for you
means a finite list? Are you sure that everybody needs the LEAST fixed
point? The co-streams give you something different...
Frankly, I don't know what is the issue...
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Ha
, and Haskell in particular.
Any takers?
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ation.
Horrible difference in efficiency between some "standard"
procedures such as sorting which uses built-in order, and
user-defined one. Etc.
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tp://www.mrtc.mdh.se/projects/DFH/
but you say that the project is dormant. Is there *anything* going on?
THANKS!
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combinators. This works:
(x > y) or 'allez en enfer'
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e vectorized "comprehension" expressions are really neat.
In contrast, Mathematica has a pretty consistent and elegant language.
Since I respect others' religions I won't argue. But I hope you don't
try to convince us that Mathematica is good at number crunching...
Jerzy K
son to call it a creeping horror.
It is quite homogeneous and simple, and is decently interfaced.
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y that the energy *remains* constant unconditionally.
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ages is a big adventure and pleasure.
* Here and elsewhere both H and C communities are helpful, people who
know, answer all questions without pretensions nor suggestions that they
are respectful gurus bothered by beginners (which happens too often on
other "language-oriented" newgroups
)
Without which "=" and "<" fail to have their intended meaning.
I don't know what's 'your' intended meaning of the length of an infinite
list, but I don't think you can prove or assume that ~(w
5 < 6
6 < 7
... go to aleph0.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
ction that we can traverse.
although this may be the departure point for a "less opaque"
representation of functions, probably useful in math...
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>any->scalar
with good arithmetic scalars permit to establish the vector structure.
Actually, the instances as quoted above produces bizarrily an error
which says that something is less polymorphic than expected; the
overlapping is accepted (apparently).
Sigh.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
_
ts would require multi-parametric classes.
With dependencies, of course...
Since they are not *so* old, and the numerics in Haskell have
been frozen a long time ago, Haskell libraries from the math
point of view evolve slowly. But people are interested in that, and
the work will contin
cult in Haskell.
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but as more structured entities...
We have already separate 'interface files'...
We should use more frequently multi-level editors. We know,
anyway, that it is *good* to have some interaction between
the editor and the compiler for the debugging...
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
ible work on ADJUNCTIONS in the context of
Haskell structures? Perhaps instead of searching for 'inverses' one should
think more about adjoints?...
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rl in JFP.
There is an another piece of my stuff, where there is something about the dif-
ferential equations here:
http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~karczma/arpap/laseq.pdf
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that all questions have
always to be answered? (**)
I would suggest to have a cup of coffee, and to listen to a well known
piece of music by Charles Ives. Yes, I am serious.
http://www.charlesives.org/
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives/WK_Unanswered_Question.htm
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
(**) If you
re convinced that we might help you, José, but there is a price: you
will have to understand what the 'laziness' is, or perhaps what is a
'continuation'. [[I claim, however, that nobody will oblige you to learn
what a 'monad' is, although it mig
ot;pull back" (linearly of course!)
> linear forms on B to linear forms on A
> "back" refers to the direction of F, i'd say.
==
Does anybody have a different (or any!) idea about that?
Thank you in advance for helping me to solve my ho
Andrew J Bromage wrote:
On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 12:01:09PM +0200, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
I don't understand the remark that the internal arithmetic is
binary. Sure, it is, so what?
The reason is that you can get the Rational representation even
faster than using continued frac
presentation conversion.
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s p1 (a*p1+p0) cq
eus p0 p1 [] = [p0,p1]
Now, test it:
pp=3.141592653589793
r=take 10 (continuant (tocfrac pp))
You should get
[(3,1),(22,7),(333,106),(355,113),(103993,33102),(104348,33215), ...
etc;, anyway all that is already inexact...
For 0.1 o
ssentially two orchestrations of the same
theme.
I lost my references, perhaps somebody?...
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ization) of the straightforward transformation from a version
using the non-deterministic Monad. This one is really almost a carbon copy
of the Prolog solution, with appropriate "lifting" of operations from
individuals to lazy lists.
Such things are sometimes easier to do than to describe
Simon Marlow wrote:
Be careful about accidental overloading:
...
Be careful with exports. Prune export lists to just those functions
which need to be exported.
How a too long export list can slow-down the target program?
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
could stop that, otherwise? Together
with others who propose to change $25 into billions, or to enlarge some
interesting parts of a male hardware?
Or tell me how to *effectively* filter all that away. Or, I'll go mad
and I strangle some of my students. Anyway they deserve it.
Yours friendly
n't find any model of it. No, no, get out with your
f x = undefined.
The "subst" combinator: subst f g x = f x (g x) has the type
(a->b->c) -> (a->b) -> a -> c (unless I've produced some mistake)
You can sing the rest of this solemn song yourself, you know the basic tune.
Read Luca Cardelli papers, Wadler's "Theorems for free", etc.
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: Scheme, absolutely: ML variants, and Erlang.
Such questions are, and will continue to be recurring.
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Mark Carroll wrote:
> (Is all the world on a seven-day week? I
wonder how that came about.)
Gunpowder & money.
Merry Christmas.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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-
printers, like readsPrec can be useful for simple, precedence-based
parsers.
But I am still unhappy. The associativity is not taken into account,
and for non-trivial purposes both ...Prec functions seem not as useful
as I would like.
Any comments? Thanks.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
gs in sequences as above already (if I am not mistaken)
about 7 - 8 years ago, when we discussed a bit the usage of Haskell to
some numerics. But nobody really cared about it, and it seems that some
small but nasty insects are still alive.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
ic of continued fractions is also based on co-recursive
expansion, although I have never seen anybody implementing it using a lazy
language, and a lazy protocol.
Anybody wants to do it with me? (Serious offers only...)
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-recursive, and
partly recursive, borrowing the carry from the non-existing yet
future. It could be done in a safer way, but I repeat that I did it
for sheer joy. Perhaps one day I will return to it, unless somebody
does it first.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
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more documentation, but there isn't (yet). Yell if you need it.
Folks, let's yell together!
This is a nice feature. It SHOULD be better known.
If Simon's team has no time to write it, perhaps it would be nice to put
the reference to Mark's paper on line?
http://w
imon Peyton Jones, and Simon Marlow. (Or, hmmm...
no, we can't dismiss them like that. We will buy them!)
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, France
I propose to keep this money here in Normandy. We have plenty of very resistant
bunkers not destroyed yet (neither in '44, nor dur
to time I will show also how
the things can be coded faster and nicer".
Je vous souhaite Salud y Pesetas.
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n't have to understand what the compiler is doing to
> write code.
This is not the question of this or that *compiler*, but of understanding
the basics of data processing independent of the language. I am abhorred by
the idea of putting down: "this looks like it wo
oque.
As a programming language it is worse than Fortran (save for vectorized
arithmetic). So, linguistically a functional scientific programming tool
would be really very nice. But the performance is another issue.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, France.
===
PS. Is it good English: "save for vectorized ari
shed in HOSC last year.
But somebody might get interested in some geometric extensions thereof
(differential forms)
http://users.info.unicaen.fr/~karczma/arpap/ltforms.pdf
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nally, I honestly don't think I would have been able to put
> Gofer together without many hours poring over Simon's 1987 book.
Just for the record: this wonderful (really!) book has others authors
as well: Philip Wadler, Peter Hancock,... contributed, writing some
chapters.
Jerzy Ka
monads is quite fundamental. Unless I am
wrong... But I can't discard the impression that in Haskell the hiatus
between the IO primitives and other programming layers is bigger than
in the imperative world.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, France
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Haskell-
e. We still use a bit of Prolog, but most of
our stuff has been rewritten, and now Haskell dominates.
Etc.
It is just a sick dream?
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,
> e.g. 'x f (y)' is a function f applied to two arguments.
Hmmm. An experimental syntax, you say...
Oh, say, you reinvented FORTH?
(No args in parentheses there, a function taking something at its right
simply *knows* that there is something there).
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, France
_
ch, and
not just in stacking some external goodies which integrate badly with the
language.
Bother, I realized that my main contributions to this list are just
complaining. Somebody could teleport me to a desert island, with
some computers, but without hoar
Keith Wansbrough quotes :
>
> Jerzy Karczmarczuk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Macros in Scheme are used to unfold n-ary control structures such as COND
> > into a hierarchy of IFs, etc. Nothing (in principle) to do with laziness
> > or HO functions.
>
l
etc. variants of Snobol4, they decided to use more structured, higher-level
approach (there was even an another, portable assembler with higher-level
instructions "embedded"; these avoided the usage of macros).
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http://mail.collegestudent.com/gda01/GDA01.HTM
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/SIdiagram.html
)
I believe, however, that one should not forget that all that is
*conventional*.
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, etc. This may be implemented functionally as
well by using continuations. You may have conditional continuations,
multiple continuations,...
Unfortunately such techniques are rarely taught.
I suspect that Mark Jones' Prolog implementation in Haskell/Gofer
used them, bu
oit the
continuations. Or use the event/token propagation along the links. But
this drives as far from Haskell.
More links, just to prove you that I've been thinking about visual
side of FP for some time:
http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/L.Braine/researchdocs.html
http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/v
Brian Boutel wrote:
>
> Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
>
> > 2. You neglect, and I suspect that you do it on purpose, that the
> >main driving force behind the evolution of Haskell is *RESEARCH*.
> >An issue absent from many "popular" languages whi
Dejan Jelovic wrote:
>
> Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote:
>
> > Over and over again the same silly song, by a person who - visibly -
> > had never anything to do with functional languages, who thinks now
> > about hiring some C and java programmers living in Belgrade
>
als as JFP or HOSC,
but to try to reach DrDobbs etc. I would add: Software: Practice
and experience, and journals on numerical software where one could
show some non-trivial implementations of practical, numerical
algorithms.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, France
PS. What is "hamster dance", anyway?
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