Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-24 Thread Alexander Solla
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 9:14 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: On 6/23/11 4:30 PM, Alexander Solla wrote: Please read Fast and Loose Reasoning is Morally Correct. http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/people/jeremy.gibbons/publications/fast+loose.pdf As I have told you before, it is

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Tjhis presentation has been very useful for me: Category Theory for software engineers,. http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~sme/presentations/cat101.pdf It is an excelent introduction using basic notations (graphs). It includes Applying category theory to specifications and Tools based on category

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread Alexander Solla
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: Well, you're way ahead of me. I don't even get adjunctions, to tell you the truth. By which I mean that I have no intuition about them; it's not so hard to understand the formal definition, but it's another thing

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread wren ng thornton
On 6/23/11 1:39 AM, Arnaud Bailly wrote: Of course, we can always say that each system is a language of its own (rather than *has* a language...) which is what Eric Evans coined with its Ubiquitous language term. But I find it difficult to connect that particular dots. That's certainly my

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread Albert Y. C. Lai
On 11-06-22 12:30 AM, Arnaud Bailly wrote: Are there works/thesis/books/articles/blogs that try to use Cat. theory explicitly as a tool/language for designing software (not as an underlying formalisation or semantics)? Is the question even meaningful? A lot of Doug Smith's works. In short, an

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread Alexander Solla
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 1:15 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: To put a different spin on it, in the dual case we can show that Haskell's (,) is not a categorical product. There's a good deal of historical debate about why it works the way it does, but if we're looking to make a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread Arnaud Bailly
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:15 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.orgwrote: On 6/23/11 1:39 AM, Arnaud Bailly wrote: Of course, we can always say that each system is a language of its own (rather than *has* a language...) which is what Eric Evans coined with its Ubiquitous language term.

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-23 Thread wren ng thornton
On 6/23/11 4:30 PM, Alexander Solla wrote: Please read Fast and Loose Reasoning is Morally Correct. http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/people/jeremy.gibbons/publications/fast+loose.pdf As I have told you before, it is perfectly appropriate to ignore bottom-the-type and bottoms-the-inexpressible

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Sebastien Zany
Hi Arnaud, I'm not the best person to answer this question, and I'm not certain this constitutes an answer, but you might be interested in Conal Elliott's paper Denotational design with type class morphisms available at http://conal.net/papers/type-class-morphisms/. Sebastien On Tue, Jun 21,

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Stephen Tetley
On 22 June 2011 05:30, Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.com wrote: Are there works/thesis/books/articles/blogs that try to use Cat. theory explicitly as a tool/language for designing software (not as an underlying formalisation or semantics)? Is the question even meaningful? You might find

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
Thanks Sebastien, This paper has passed in my radar's field but I must confess that although I think I grasped the idea, I was quickly lost in the profusion of symbols and notations. I am no mathematician, only a simple developer, although I am fascinated by several topics in mathematics so my

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
Thanks Stephen, looks interesting and congruent with few a priori I had in mind. I have already seen in prior life connections between modeling, MOF and category theory. Regards Arnaud On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Stephen Tetley stephen.tet...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 June 2011 05:30, Arnaud

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
We have a saying in french for that which translates approximately to turn your tongue seven times in your mouth before speaking. That's what happen when one tries to type mails and have breakfast at the same time :-) Cheers Arnaud 2011/6/22 MigMit miguelim...@yandex.ru: I remember myself

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Alexander Solla
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks Sebastien, This paper has passed in my radar's field but I must confess that although I think I grasped the idea, I was quickly lost in the profusion of symbols and notations. I am no mathematician, only a

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Gregg Reynolds
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:30 PM, Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.com wrote: (2nd try, took my gloves off...) Hello Café, I have been fascinated by Cat. theory for quite a few years now, as most people who get close to it I think. I am a developer, working mostly in Java for my living and

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
Hello Greg and Alexander, Thanks for your replies. Funnily, I happen to own the 3 books you mentionned :-) My interest in category theory is a long standing affair... Note that owning a book, having read (most of) it and knowing a theory (or at least its principles and main concepts) is really

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread wren ng thornton
On 6/22/11 3:59 PM, Arnaud Bailly wrote: Hello Greg and Alexander, Thanks for your replies. Funnily, I happen to own the 3 books you mentionned :-) My interest in category theory is a long standing affair... Note that owning a book, having read (most of) it and knowing a theory (or at least

Re: [Haskell-cafe] category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Brett Giles
: Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool To: Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.com Cc: Haskell Cafe haskell-cafe@haskell.org Message-ID: banlktingaplo7ysyggg1duxbw5ik1kl...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Tue

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Gregg Reynolds
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.comwrote: Hello Greg and Alexander, Thanks for your replies. Funnily, I happen to own the 3 books you mentionned :-) My interest in category theory is a long standing affair... Note that owning a book, having read (most of) it

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Gregg Reynolds d...@mobileink.com wrote: Well, you're way ahead of me. I don't even get adjunctions, to tell you the truth. By which I mean that I have no intuition about them; it's not so hard to understand the formal definition, but it's another thing

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-22 Thread Arnaud Bailly
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:46 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.orgwrote: One of the big benefits I see to using category theory for dealing with programming languages comes from using CT as a generalized logic for equational reasoning. In particular, making use of the ideas of (co)limits

[Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread Arnaud Bailly
Hello, I ha ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread Daniel Peebles
Hey, I think you forgo On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:20 AM, Arnaud Bailly arnaud.oq...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, I ha ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

[Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread Arnaud Bailly
(2nd try, took my gloves off...) Hello Café, I have been fascinated by Cat. theory for quite a few years now, as most people who get close to it I think. I am a developer, working mostly in Java for my living and dabbling with haskell and scala in my spare time and assuming the frustration of

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread Arlen Cuss
On 22/06/2011 2:24 PM, Daniel Peebles wrote: Hey, I think you forgo Hahah, this reminds me of the time I onc ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread Alex Rozenshteyn
Funny, I didn't hear anyone say Candlejack. What abou ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Category theory as a design tool

2011-06-21 Thread MigMit
I remember myself complaining about how when one says something stupid and corrects himself in a few minutes, it's the first message that attracts all the attention, not the second one. Отправлено с iPhone Jun 22, 2011, в 8:42, Alex Rozenshteyn rpglove...@gmail.com написал(а): Funny, I